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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo
    #7234244 - 07/28/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thought everybody might like to see the difference in colonization between Treasure Coast (left) and Pink Buffalo (right).  :eek:



Same day (7/16), same BRF recipe containing used espresso grounds & lime for pH.  Everything identical.  Picture was taken on 7/28. 

Colonization would have taken off sooner, but jars were sealed for 1st week - no air exchange IE regular tape and tight lids vs. micropore tape and looser lids.  However, both received identical treatment.

Interesting !

TTF & Spylock

PS  The milkiness of the jars is due to hard water stains after steaming/boiling tek.


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TTF
93
and my head is fifty feet high -let my body and soul be my guide

<david byrne from "Glass Concrete and Stone" on Grown Backwards>
93/93


Edited by Tactile Tunafish (07/28/07 04:22 PM)


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Offlinedeformedreality
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7234268 - 07/28/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

is this multispore or isolate? cause multispore is just random, hell you do more than the two jars... and you would get some of each growing helluh fast and a few slow as fuck on both sides. This isnt really a controlled experiment.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: deformedreality]
    #7234291 - 07/28/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Actually MS is better for a controlled comparison of two different strains than an isolate would be, because it involves a larger genetic sample...

Ideally, though, you'd have to do this with at least half a dozen of each to have any clue.


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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: deformedreality]
    #7234296 - 07/28/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

They are all multispore, with TC from liquid culture and PB from spore syringe. Edited to add: 8/2 thanks to Figgus, I THINK THE LC IS FAULTY - SORRY !!

There are 7 jars of each and these two jars are representational of the whole.

The TC took over 3 weeks last time - forever.


Edited by Tactile Tunafish (08/02/07 05:03 PM)


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7234313 - 07/28/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

1) Grounds + lime for pH? That's nonsense. Lime is a base, grounds are an acid. You've accomplished nothing with these additives.

2) You used an LC for one jar and spore solution for the other, offsetting the time due to germination. This doesn't seem to have mattered since your LC jar took longer anyway.

3) You only did two jars. Too many factors can come into play with such a small sample.


Anyway, your LC jar is probably duking it out with some bacteria at this point, or else your substrate is poorly mixed. It looks a little packed-down, to me, which is an especially big problem with pints (those are pints, right?).


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Offlinedeformedreality
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7234314 - 07/28/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

you must have some crappy tc, cause mine only took 12 days from ms inoculation.


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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234550 - 07/28/07 06:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you for bringing to mind some excellent points here! :thanx: 

Guess there are just so many variables that could enter into this picture but it looked like a rather dramatic example, thought it would be cool.  Will keep updating this as we go along, maybe the TC will catch up later.

Added 1/2 parts lime to neutralize 5 parts coffee.  They are pint jars, dropped in by spoonfuls.

Not exactly sure how old the spores are since the TC was from Hawks eye and PB from FSRE.  However, the brown rice was from Thailand too, so maybe the PB feels right at home ?:psychsplit:


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----
TTF
93
and my head is fifty feet high -let my body and soul be my guide

<david byrne from "Glass Concrete and Stone" on Grown Backwards>
93/93


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7234585 - 07/28/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Why did you want to neutralize an additive you put in to change the pH? Just curious; I've never heard of this.

Other than that, enjoy your grow! :smile:


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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7247913 - 08/01/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Just thought it would be nice to give them some extra fancy stuff for them to eat.

If I get jacked up on caffeine, and mycelium is slightly more animal-like than plant (while being actually neither), and other people were having good luck using it in their cased substrates, then figured it was worth a shot - and so far, so good !

All the PB are moving along very well. I got them from FSRE. Pretty quick turnaround too.


--------------------
----
TTF
93
and my head is fifty feet high -let my body and soul be my guide

<david byrne from "Glass Concrete and Stone" on Grown Backwards>
93/93


Edited by Tactile Tunafish (08/01/07 03:59 PM)


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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7248911 - 08/01/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Tactile Tunafish said:Will keep updating this as we go along, maybe the TC will catch up later.



As promised!
 
Rust/hard water deposits on outside of jar, plus marked growth rate
in green highlighter since yesterday morning - so at least all the ones
that do have growth haven't stalled.  That at least has me hopeful ! 


Another difference is tyvek lids on 6 of the 7 slower ones. 
Also enormous probability of faulty LC - so it is by no means a controlled
experiment - but hey - try & learn, right ?:blush:


--------------------
----
TTF
93
and my head is fifty feet high -let my body and soul be my guide

<david byrne from "Glass Concrete and Stone" on Grown Backwards>
93/93


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OfflineToke420
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Tactile Tunafish]
    #7250076 - 08/02/07 01:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

do i see green on those right jars?


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OfflineWarNerve666
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Toke420]
    #7250669 - 08/02/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Toke420 said:
do i see green on those right jars?





Reading comprehension ftw!


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Offlinezdev
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Toke420]
    #7250670 - 08/02/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I think he penciled that in after he took the pic.


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: zdev]
    #7250699 - 08/02/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome comparison! :bananahorsey:


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7251088 - 08/02/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
1) Grounds + lime for pH? That's nonsense. Lime is a base, grounds are an acid. You've accomplished nothing with these additives.





Actually, coffee grounds add nitrogen which boosts mycelial growth... and being acidic, as you said, he had to add the lime to balance out the pH.

He's accomplished quite a bit with these additives.

G21


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In the end I will just defy you







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OfflineTactile Tunafish
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Toke420]
    #7251111 - 08/02/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

thanks for the attention ...

yes you do !    There's some "green" on the left side too -- because  I took a green highlighter and marked the boundary around where the mycelium ended in order to see if they were still growing.    They are ! 

It's water-soluable marker.  and I can do it again with a different color (say every 3 days) to measure which jars are growing faster - if they are slowing down or speeding up.

It just so happened that the only marker I had laying around was a green one. 

The more I think about it, it's got to be faulty LC.  Will give it another couple of days, and shoot it up again with a totally different LC (that I know for sure is growing) and let them duke it out...

and p.s.  I'm a girl !:cheers:  <that's me over there>


Edited by Tactile Tunafish (08/02/07 11:48 AM)


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OfflineToke420
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: WarNerve666]
    #7280090 - 08/10/07 12:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WarNerve666 said:
Quote:

Toke420 said:
do i see green on those right jars?





Reading comprehension ftw!




"plus marked growth rate
in green highlighter since yesterday morning"

yeah I seriously read this post a few times and dident pick up on that
my bad


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Invisibleroquet
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: Greens21]
    #7280182 - 08/10/07 01:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
1) Grounds + lime for pH? That's nonsense. Lime is a base, grounds are an acid. You've accomplished nothing with these additives.





Actually, coffee grounds add nitrogen which boosts mycelial growth... and being acidic, as you said, he had to add the lime to balance out the pH.




I thought you only need to neutralize acidity with a base in casings because it attracts contams. I didn't think this was an issue in bulk substrate/jars (because they're not exposed much to the air?).


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: roquet]
    #7280254 - 08/10/07 02:16 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yep, which is yet another reason what he did made no sense. Not a big deal, but here's my understanding of the affair:

Some acidity in sterilized substrate/spawn is a good thing (what did Stamets or similar sources say? 5.5-6.0, right?). pH balancing to neutral or basic levels is mostly just for casings, which are pasteurized (if you're smart), only partially colonized, and exposed constantly to nonsterile conditions; it's meant to keep trich away, especially, since some casing materials are really prone to trich attacks. Sterilized substrate, like BRF mix or grain spawn (as opposed to pasteurized bulk), is so easily contaminated anyway (if exposed to something like trich, which it shouldn't be) that it's better to give the mushies the advantage of ideal pH, even though it somewhat benefits contams, since with any luck contams won't make their way in in the first place until colonization is more or less complete.

So... yeah, coffee is good for N2 and acidity and maybe some trace minerals which are only of so-so importance. And adding lime will remove the benefit you get from acidity, while leaving the other two benefits intact. I don't think slaked lime is an accessible form of calcium for shrooms, so I don't think it has any nutritional value on its own... the lime really serves no purpose here, since acidity is a good thing in a cake mix.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Pics: Compare Colonization: Treasure Coast vs. Pink Buffalo [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7280267 - 08/10/07 02:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Correction, I've looked it up, and apparently even though coffee is quite acidic (5.0), coffee grounds are only very slightly acidic (6.9 or so). So I guess they're not a good acidity additive. I know RR suggests diluted coffee-water for grain soaking, which does indeed acidify, but apparently the addition of coffee grounds to bulk is purely for nitrogen and whatever trace nutrients it contains.

This actually makes adding lime to a BRF mix even more silly, when you think about it. I don't know what the natural pH of a cake mix is, but I wouldn't be surprised if a pinch of lime would bring it up well past seven, which is straying pretty far out of the "ideal" territory (again, 5.5-6.5).

Tunafish: I'd suggest you stop with the lime. Coffee might not be bad. This probably has something to do with why your jars took so long to take off. Air exchange actually matters almost not at all for spore germination, since the spores aren't yet consuming oxygen; until they start growing, stale air is the same as fresh. I wouldn't be surprised if spores germinate just a teensy bit slower in more basic environments.


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