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Invisiblemycomage
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Registered: 11/18/22
Posts: 8
Heroic dose gone bad...
    #28277259 - 04/14/23 11:10 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

A little background: I've done a lot of psychedelics (hundreds of trips) and big doses but mostly on LSD and mostly 30 years ago. I did take shrooms back then with no ill effects. That was all recreational use, going to concerts, etc. Lately, I've been revisiting shrooms because I'm interested in the therapeutic value and also consciousness exploration.

I had my first real dose in decades a few months ago. I took 3.5 grams of cubensis (source from a friend). The first couple of hours were quite uncomfortable. I felt super-speedy like I had way too much coffee. I wrote this off to having way too much coffee (I did have a lot coffee just before dosing). In retrospect, I should have paid more attention to this.

In the intervening months I've done low dose a few times .25-1g. I also noticed this effect but it was OK because the dose was low.

Yesterday, I took 5.1g of powdered cubensis (my own grow) in a cup of water, A couple of hours prior to that I had a light breakfast with 1 cup coffee and 1 up of tea. I felt totally good and normal. Calm and healthy.

Within 10 minutes I could feel it hitting (unusually fast). 15 minutes and I needed to lie down. Got in bed with eye shades and music, ready to enjoy. But the speedy feeling kept building. I felt like I was going to climb out of my own skin. I kept reflexively taking big breaths as if I was short of breath (but don't think was actually short of breath). This just got worse and worse. I tried to convince my self that these were just sensations and not uncomfortable. But it was intolerable. There has been a couple of times where I drank too much caffeine and got speedy in an somewhat uncomfortable way. This was like that times 1000. Honestly, it was pretty horrible and felt very, very wrong and unhealthy.

I had no problem with the tripping part of it...just what I expected. But my body felt so ill, I could not enjoy it. I did not have nausea, but my belly and gut were clenched up tightly. And it just would not stop!


After about two hours I slowly ate an apple (which was awesome) and started to feel a little better. Over the day, I progressively recovered. The unwanted symptoms seemed to fade at the same rate as the psychedelic effects. Six hours after dosing, I was mostly OK but felt like I was run over. I had a headache at night and feel kind of hung over this morning.

I'm not taking any SSRIs or MAOIs (or any psychiatric meds). I do take meds for blood pressure and cholesterol. All the research that I could do did not show an interaction. But it really seems like I might have had some serotonin overload. I'm going to ask my doctor when I see her soon, but am interested to see if other have had a similar experience.

Anyone care to share experience, knowledge or speculaton that might shed some light on this?


Edited by mycomage (04/14/23 11:50 AM)


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OfflineCorundum
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Registered: 11/01/17
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Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28279968 - 04/16/23 03:47 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

That sounds pretty scary :frown: I usually have physiological effects but it is most often masked by the trip enough that I don't really notice it after a while. Definitely ask your doctor about interactions if you're worried about it


--------------------
:samus::samus:


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OfflineSeventhMushroom
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Registered: 12/30/22
Posts: 55
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Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28281448 - 04/17/23 12:59 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

I get a similar "gut clenching" feeling, usually accompanied by chills. It's uncomfortable, but I usually get over it around the same time my tripping buddies usually "get over" their come up nausea. I certainly still *feel* it later, it just isn't something I focus on anymore.

As for the "speedy" feeling, I can not relate. I don't drink caffeine, and when I do, I don't notice much of a difference. But, I would speculate that it might have something to do with your mind suddenly becoming more "clear", at least that's how it goes for me. Have you tried just letting yourself crawling out of your skin if that's what it wants to do? Again, just speculation, but maybe if you give in to the feeling, it will pass?


--------------------
LAGM 2024


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OfflineMyceliumMaiden
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Registered: 03/13/23
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Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: Corundum]
    #28281699 - 04/17/23 07:55 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Hei!
Perhaps your breakfast ingredients could have had a bad interaction in your stomach, but I feel this isn't really it because you took the medicine a few hours after eating and your food should have been mostly digested by then.

You mentioned putting the ground powder in water...did you use hot water? A hot tea helps soften the biomass for absorption and digestion.
A little honey added is really nice, too. Maybe some lemon juice.

A friend of mine also experienced a headache after her trip, but she felt wonderful the following day.

I have not experienced this stomach pain directly before, but I've heard of this happening and it sounds like you may have experienced gut rot. I pulled this from Wandering Trip:

"Gut rot. Ah, the dreaded gut rot. Seasoned mushroom enthusiasts will tell you that this is one of the worst side effects, and it can make you feel awful, sometimes for hours which can really put a damper on your trip.

Combine that with the hallucinogenic effects, it can also be pretty disturbing.

Gut rot has a wide range of severity. It can be very mild, with just a slight upset stomach, to extreme abdominal cramping and pain, gas, and other lovely bowel issues.

Some tips we've gathered from users to help prevent gut rot:

- Make tea or an alcohol extraction instead of eating them
- Drink ginger tea
- Keep activated charcoal handy - this should be taken as long after ingesting the mushrooms as possible, as it will prevent further absorption as well
- Fast before taking them
- Drink milk
- Take enzymes with them - the body has a hard time breaking down the fibre if you're eating the dried mushrooms
- Take psilocybin liquid or gummies - yes, they make these now!"

I always fast before my trips and have never had stomach issues. Sometimes a little gurgling and burbling and a toot later.

I've also read these stomach pains can be manifestations of anxiety. Keep relaxing and witness the experience. Come out of your body, watch it, and then go back into it. Keep doing this.

As for the speediness, this may be the species. I've found p. cubensis to have a lot of body noise, pronounced physical involvement, whereas the panaeolus cyanescens I usually take are more mind-manifesting, the body is fairly quiet after the come-up.

I hope this helps. May your next trip be more comfortable and peaceful.


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Invisiblemycomage
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Registered: 11/18/22
Posts: 8
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: MyceliumMaiden]
    #28283484 - 04/18/23 09:39 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Thanks to those who responded. It's great to get different perspectives

SeventhMushroom: "But, I would speculate that it might have something to do with your mind suddenly becoming more "clear", at least that's how it goes for me. Have you tried just letting yourself crawling out of your skin if that's what it wants to do? Again, just speculation, but maybe if you give in to the feeling, it will pass?"

I have tripped hundreds of times and I have a strong meditation practice so I have experience and tools to manage changing mind states. I spent about two hours just trying to go with it, be curious about it, let it happen, none of that helped. The feeling was distinctly physiological, nothing to do with what was going on in my mind. If it was just my mind opening, I would have been find with it...that's what I was looking for!

MyceliumMaiden, thanks for all the ingestion tips. One thing that I did not consider was activated charcoal as a bail-out. Probably would not have helped here because I did not give up on it for a long time (it would have been fully absorbed). I thought I could just ride through. But it would be nice to have something on hand in case something went wrong right in the beginning.

"As for the speediness, this may be the species. I've found p. cubensis to have a lot of body noise, pronounced physical involvement, whereas the panaeolus cyanescens I usually take are more mind-manifesting, the body is fairly quiet after the come-up."

I have considered this. I have a TTBVI Panaeolus Cyanescens spore print. I'm not yet set up to grow that yet, but I have been considering trying. If I do, I will scale the dose down 3-4X for the stronger species and then scale it down again to get a taster dose. Start with 150mg and see if I get that bad  feeling in my body. If all good, work up slowly.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage] * 1
    #28295492 - 04/25/23 10:52 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Honestly that sounds pretty normal given the dose. You learn ways to deal with stuff like that psychologically, but it's always there, like a fact. Tripping at high doses has both negative and positive effects. Unwanted and unpleasant feelings and thoughts are par for the course. It's better sometimes, who knows why, other times it's worse. I find a light meal before tripping helps.


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OfflineSoul Flight
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Registered: 05/04/23
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Last seen: 20 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage] * 1
    #28309266 - 05/06/23 02:50 PM (8 months, 18 days ago)

Sounds like a normal trip to me. Some claim Penis Envy is strong. So 3.5g of PE is stronger than 3.5g of another strain.

I often experience that caffeine feeling on PE. But it usually lasts only for 1 hour of the come up. My thoughts are racing and I can barely use my phone and keep touching the wrong little icons and my vision is also blurry and the phone is melting. I get restless.

I always fast 4 to 6 hours prior to dosing. Did you munch the shrooms? Some people claim they cannot digest chitin which I understand to be the cellulose or structure of shrooms. So they soak the shrooms in acidic lemon juice which dissolves the chitin and then they filter the lemon juice through cheese cloth and drink chitin-free lemon juice. I never had cramps on shrooms but I did have cramps briefly on MDMA.

Even with all this sometimes I feel nauseated for the whole day or feel funky.


Edited by Soul Flight (05/20/23 02:19 PM)


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OfflineCalendral
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Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 11
Last seen: 8 months, 18 hours
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28323450 - 05/17/23 02:47 PM (8 months, 7 days ago)

This sounds somewhat similar to my 2.2g dose but more extreme.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: Calendral]
    #28323897 - 05/17/23 07:52 PM (8 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

I had no problem with the tripping part of it...just what I expected. But my body felt so ill, I could not enjoy it. I did not have nausea, but my belly and gut were clenched up tightly. And it just would not stop!

After about two hours I slowly ate an apple (which was awesome) and started to feel a little better. Over the day, I progressively recovered. The unwanted symptoms seemed to fade at the same rate as the psychedelic effects.




They did so because the unwanted effects are also psychedelic effects; it's not a different mechanism from the one that causes tripping, but the same one.

The strange body feelings or 'body load' is the cost of tripping; body load as a cost limits someone from going so far unless they want to experience a degree of discomfort.

In my experience, tolerance can limit body load only so much; even trying to go deeper and take higher doses, one can find themselves hitting a wall, where body discomfort stops any enjoyment or introspect. And at that point, it's a signal to stop - one cannot go that way any more, one has hit the limit.

It could indicate that one should stop taking psychedelics, or, more likely, that smaller doses are preferable. It is a sign of one's individual tolerance, and cannot be ignored. Your body is telling you what it can take.


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Offlinethespacecadet
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Registered: 06/03/23
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Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28366920 - 06/20/23 10:21 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I try to stay away from stimulants like coffee/energy drinks before a trip. I already get semi anxious on caffine so, if I want a good trip, i totally forego the caffine abd feel grrrr-eat!


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OfflineGeorge998
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Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28488913 - 10/01/23 01:47 PM (3 months, 25 days ago)

I get a similar body load when dosing above ~3.5g.
I find the digestive tension is helped by skipping a meal beforehand.
I only use tea nowadays at those doses too and that definitely helps in that area.
I get the shortness of breath and speedy feeling coming up on higher doses too.
I think of it as just being the bumpy ride between the real world and the psychedelic ‘other world’.
If I relax though it I find it potentiates the feeling of total calm once I’m up and on the other side.
Although tea doesn’t stop these feelings during the come up, it gets you up to the peak much quicker - less time for the discomfort to put you into a negative head space.
Hope this helps.


--------------------
One of God’s own prototypes.
A high powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.
Too weird to live, too rare to die.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Registered: 09/30/19
Posts: 2,255
Loc: SF, CA, USA
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28504168 - 10/14/23 09:52 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Soul Flight said:

I always fast 4 to 6 hours prior to dosing. Did you munch the shrooms? Some people claim they cannot digest chitin which I understand to be the cellulose or structure of shrooms. So they soak the shrooms in acidic lemon juice which dissolves the chitin and then they filter the lemon juice through cheese cloth and drink chitin-free lemon juice. I never had cramps on shrooms but I did have cramps briefly on MDMA.

Even with all this sometimes I feel nauseated for the whole day or feel funky.




Chitin is not dissolved by lemon juice acid or boiling.
It’s the same material as crab shells. I do think both acid and boiling cooks it a bit which helps.
The good stuff is water soluble and as stated above you can filter out the mushroom fruit bodies.


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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Offlinecica88256
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Registered: 10/30/23
Posts: 13
Last seen: 1 month, 24 days
Re: Heroic dose gone bad... [Re: mycomage]
    #28549190 - 11/19/23 01:39 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Old thread but whatever. I had a couple of energy drinks before lemon tekking 80 liberty caps and I recognise the gut clenching, tense stomach muscles feeling but didn't find it particular unpleasant. If anything it was sort of exhilirating, like my body wanted to lift off. This was on half your equivalent dose though. Also I was walking outside which might have helped.

The headache is probably due to dehydration. I don't have enough experience to say whether the hangover like feeling is normal but I got this (similar to weed the next day) combined with a higher that normal level of emotional sensitivity.


Edited by cica88256 (11/19/23 02:07 PM)


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