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InvisiblefahtsterM
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I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing (swinger tek adjacent) * 33
    #28117746 - 12/30/22 04:52 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Edit:  realized I should probably link to Muad.Dweebs swinger tek for some great reading on this subject.  Check out all his other posts too.  The guys doing gods work :headbanger:

Yoyoyo party peeps!  So just like the title says, I’ve got a hunch that crossing clones can be incredibly easy.  First, let me show you the very helpful post by Alan Rockefeller (and ultimately Julian on FB) that got me started on this thinking.

So the basic idea is that blending myc small enough so that dedikaryotization happens and you can extract monokaryons from a clone sample.  The process is easy enough as they explain it but I think it can be simplified even more where anyone can achieve a cross without using a scope or even agar plates.  If the goal is to extract a mono, then that above process is necessary but if you want to just cross your two favorite clones, this, I hypothesize, is very simple

The first thing I asked myself is, does a blade in a blender actually “cut” myc into small enough pieces?  And the conclusion I came to is no, it doesn’t.  Maybe initially but your blender blades would have to be sharper than a scalpel to actually cut microscopic pieces of mycelium.  It actually pulverizes the myc.  Imagine the very tip of an even very sharp blade… microscopically, it’s blunt.

So this brought me to the idea that there  is no better way to pulverize mycelium than hard ass colonized grains sloshing back and forth in water in the bottom of a jar… GLC. 

All I do is GLC for clones and I can tell you that the myc filaments are so small that it takes at least 48 hours of extremely thick myc water to show growth to the naked eye.  I don’t think growth stops at all for those two days, I think it just starts out so small that it takes that long to be grown enough to see.

For example, 3 days ago I GLC’d these PE/RW f6 ms 4oz jars to wheat qts


Each one of these syringes has the myc water from one 4oz jar


That myc is pulverized and I didn’t see any growth to my naked eye in the qts until yesterday.  Here they are today


A little sidebar about my glc process: After I harvested the myc water from the 4oz jars (tried pulling as much water back out as possible but there’s always a decent amount that stays stuck to the kernels), I put the jars in a bag of damprid for two days and any water that didn’t get absorbed by the grains was pulled out via the damprid.. then I replaced the tape over most of the large GE filter and they recovered (this was three days ago) and tomorrow I’ll be spawning each of those to their own sandwich bag.  That’ll give me a good idea of how the tub will do that those two qts are going to make.  It’s like a peak into the future :smile:

So I’m thinking that myc is small enough to revert back to a monokaryon if even for a short period of time.

Now.. here’s where the magic (might) happen.  If I take one of those syringes of packed pulverized myc and use it to GLC another varieties 4oz grain jar (inject it into another clones 4oz jar and slosh it around), the two varieties will be pulverized and mixed together so finely they’re inseparable.  Then I can extract the mixed clone myc water and inoculate qts.  The idea being that the sloshing and pulverizing of the two will mix them together so we’ll that even tho monokaryons remain for only a short time, it’s enough time that genetic sharing will happen on a massive scale and a cross will be not only possible but probable.

Edit: even now just thinking about it, I could maybe even just leave the mixed clone myc water in the syringe and allow for the genetic sharing to happen in there.  Being that it’s glc, there’s most definitely starch that comes along with the myc water so there’s enough nutrients to further growth inside the syringe barrel

I literally have jars cooling in the pc to give this whirl.  My plan is to use my mak 118 clone and a yeti clone I just took.  I have to revive the mak 118 from dried grains (doing that today) and that’ll take 5 days to see visible growth and the yeti clone…


..should be ready to glc to qts (doing a tub of them) and a few new 4oz grain jars (2 will be for my own storage and 1 will be for this crossing project) in a couple days.  So right about the time I see growth on the new yeti clone 4oz jar I should also see growth on the mak 118.  Then I’ll be off running.  Should happen pretty quickly

I’m posting this before any result because I’m fairly confident it’ll work but I also want to give anyone else a chance to try it that may be doing myco work today or in the near future and can try it.

I can think of a way anyone doing g2g with two different variety clones (I’d suggest 2 with very different characteristics so the cross is obvious) can try this:

After g2g’ing most of the grain from a master jar, leave enough kernels in the bottom to juuust cover it (1/8” maybe)… do that with both clones.  Then pour 10ml of sterile water into the first clone jar.  Slosh the grains around in the bottom reallllllly well.  You want the myc to be pulverized.  Then pour that water into the second clone jar and repeat the sloshing.  Then pour the myc water with both clones mixed myc water into a normal myco qt.  You could also just pour the water and grains from the first jar into the second clone jar and just g2g that to a couple new qts (after a good sloshing).

Maybe this’ll work out, maybe it won’t.  But what if it does?  You could cross anything with anything.. enigma with anything.  That’d be pretty cool.  We’re about to find out!

Edit: forgot to add that I’m also doing a mak 118 and yeti RADS (rub and double swab) today as well


Making two 4oz wheat jars and 2 pf cakes with that mixed spore water so that’ll be a nice comparison as well

Faht

Editing in results.

Yeti clone 1st flush:

“Yeti clone 16qt tub did aight.  More excited for the second flush and bigger fruits


Yeti clone 2nd flush

“Pulled and trashed the yeti clone 2nd flush tub



Mak118 clone 1st flush
“Revived mak 118 2.5 gal zipblock.  (Remember, dried out for 10 months and GLC’d dry straight to the qt of wheat) He was a grower not a shower lol


Mak118 clone 2nd flush


Claketi first flush (mixed clone myc—reason for the thread)




Claketi 2nd flush



Claketi f2 qt bag


Swabbed and cloned this guy


I sent two swabs sets of claketi f2 to a couple great growers, Milkboy and Yoshitrainer.  Here’s their f2 results

Quote:

YoshiTrainer said:
Claketi in 1/2 pint jars on BRF/verm.

I like the wavey caps on these guys



I didn't see the pin until after I'd opened the jar or I probably would've cloned it.



This is the other jar.



I cloned this guy.



Very solid stipe!






Milkboy:




Edited by fahtster (08/05/23 11:45 AM)


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OfflineNuclearTidalWave
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster] * 2
    #28117752 - 12/30/22 04:59 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


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Edited by NuclearTidalWave (12/30/22 07:19 PM)


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: NuclearTidalWave] * 1
    #28117753 - 12/30/22 05:00 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:thisisgonnabegood:


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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #28117869 - 12/30/22 06:37 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:mindblown:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28117896 - 12/30/22 07:08 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
You could cross anything with anything.. enigma with anything.  That’d be pretty cool.  We’re about to find out!





:anticipation:


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OfflineNonagon
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28117907 - 12/30/22 07:15 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


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InvisibleHILLBILLY OUTLAWS
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28117919 - 12/30/22 07:21 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Loving it Fahts!! Your experimentation is always inspiring!


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: Nonagon]
    #28117920 - 12/30/22 07:23 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:howyoudoing:


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OfflineJW123
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: AyePlus]
    #28118082 - 12/30/22 09:30 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:camping:


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OfflineExcess Taters
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: JW123] * 1
    #28118168 - 12/30/22 10:31 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

This sounds too good to be true, yet you're too well respected to be doubted.  Thus I am in a pickle, and I shall hold the position of cautious optimism till the results speak their truth.  Interesting idea, if it works it's damn brilliant.  If it doesn't, at least now we know this particular method isn't the way, and others can build from here and find it. 

Science is fun, every victory is amazing and every loss teaches us something.


--------------------
If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start.  First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub! 
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs.  Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE?  P9 pseudo casing tek


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InvisibleQuantumReality
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28118179 - 12/30/22 10:45 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:takingnotes:


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: QuantumReality]
    #28118206 - 12/30/22 11:12 PM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:dogpipe:

You rock faht


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: mind.at.large] * 2
    #28118265 - 12/31/22 12:04 AM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Quote:

If it doesn't, at least now we know this particular method isn't the way, and others can build from here and find it. 

Science is fun, every victory is amazing and every loss teaches us something.




This is definitely at the core of it all.  I’m ok with being wrong.


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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: mind.at.large]
    #28118266 - 12/31/22 12:06 AM (1 year, 28 days ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28118298 - 12/31/22 12:37 AM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Bookmarking this thread :headbang:


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: SlugWorthx1] * 6
    #28118353 - 12/31/22 03:39 AM (1 year, 27 days ago)

Nice to see peeps along for the ride.

So tonight I got the ball rollin on the mak 118 clone revival.

Here’s the 4oz dried out colonized wheat jar.. looks like I made the jar on 1/27/22 so it was probably dry for the last 10 months


I sterilized a 4oz jar of water and 2 syringes in foil.  Filled both syringes with sterile water.  All SHIP injections were done with the steam pen


Before I injected any water into the dry grain jar, I shook the grains around vigorously in the bottom of the jar.  This prepulverized the myc attached to the grain.. it’s already dry and brittle.

Then  injected the first 10ml syringe of sterile water and again sloshed the grains around vigorously in the bottom of the jar with the water.. forward and back side to side for a good 30 seconds (i want to keep the grains and water in the bottom of the jar when I “shake” and not so it gets all over the underside of the lid).  Then I add the second 10ml syringe of sterile water.  While the second syringe is still stuck through the SHIP, I gently slosh the grains in the jar.  The second 10ml is simply to make sure that I have enough liquid that I pull back out a full 10ml syringe.  Some liquid sticks to the grains and if I only put in 10ml total, I’ll probably only pull 5-6 ml back out unless I add that second syringe.  So a quick sloshing is all that’s needed to mix the myc water and newly added water.  Then I retrieve 10ml of the myc water

This is what I pull back out..


It’s packed full of myc.. and that’s from a jar that was completely dry for the last 10 months, 5 minutes ago.

I used 1ml to inoculate a new 4oz wheat jar (the one I’m using for the project this thread is about) and the rest I used to knock up a qt of wheat.  The qt I’m gonna grow out in a xl ziplock for making swabs


Now.. the mak 118 and yeti double swab.  This is where I lose some/most ppl. :lol:

This is what my set up looks like for making a swab into spore solution


Quick run down (it started out quick but devolved into what you see before you :lol:).  I pc inside an oven bag: two 4oz grain jars, 2 water jars (1 is about 1/2 full and the other has 17ml of water in it), a small SS nose trimming scissors, 1 syringe.  The bag has a syringe barrel stuffed with poly fil so that the luer lock end is facing out attached to the bag via zip ties.  The bag is taped up except for one side of the opening the size a little wider than a swab pack can fit through.  Prior to pc’ing, that opening is tightly rolled and folded on itself and then rolled and folded on itself again before being zipped tied (after everything is put in the bag and the air is pushed out).  The zip tie is so that I can cut it off to access that hole after pc’ing

After pc’ing, the bag will have all the air sucked out if it.  How do I inflate the bag so I can work comfortably?  I attached a fish tank bubble hose to the poly filled syringe barrel attached to the bag


Ok.. that’s one problem solved.  But how do I get the swab pack into the bag without adding outside air?  This one is a little more involved :lol:  I got my answers from beavers of all places lol.  Think of a beavers den.  How do they enter the den if there’s no opening on the outside?  They go under the water and pop up inside. 

So first I have to make the swab pack water proof.  Easy.  Vac seal it.  I iso the outside of the swab pack and inside of a vac pouch… let dry and seal er up


Back to the beaver den opening… I modified a 8cup glad container by cutting out part of one side so when I prop the opposite end up and fill it with h2o2, there’s a deep pool on the end that’s modified.  I cut down part of the side so I can place the bag into it easily… I could’ve probably just used a shallower container but it’s what I had on hand

I take the end of the bag that has the zip tied part of the opening, cut the zip tie and unroll it and unfold it submerged in the h2o2.  So now the opening to the bag is open but under the h2o2 and no air can enter the inside of the bag. 

I bend the vac sealed swab pack in half and “hook” it into the pool of h2o2 and through the submerged open end of bag.. then I pull it through so that the swab pack is now safely inside the bag.  With the bag opening still submerged, I twist and fold the bag and rezip tie it.


Now I can relax and the swab is inside the bag that is now sealed and no air has entered, only the swab pack

Now (from outside the bag) I cut the swab pack (with the SS scissors I pc’d in the bag) so that there’s ~3” of stick to hold onto with the tips attached.  I unscrew the two water jars.  Carefully remove the swabs from the pack/vac pouch (without the tips touching anything) and stick them into the first jar of water that’s 1/2 full.  I swish the swabs around a little and rub them together a couple times lightly to remove any gill fragments and then move them to the second water jar with 17ml in it.  17ml is just enough water to cover the swab tips completely but not enough to over dilute the SS.  In this jar of water I vigorously rub the swab tips together where the spores are to dislodge them into the water.

Then I pick up the syringe that was pc’d in the bag and suck up 10ml of SS.  Then I inject 1ml directly into each 4oz grain jar that was also pc’d in the bag..  once that’s done, I cut the oven bag open and retrieve the syringe and 4oz jars.

Then I use what’s left in the syringe to inoculate 2 pf cakes (not pc’d in the bag)

All that to get a 10ml syringe of SS :lol:  I do this every time I make SS from swabs.. every cross gen.

Here’s the two 4 oz jars and of cakes after inoculation


All the hard shits done tho and It’s smooth sailing from here.  Now I just wait and the best looking of the two 4oz jars will be GLC’d to 2 new qts of wheat and made into a tub.. both 4oz jars will be spawned to sandwich bags and the cakes will be fruited whole.  A cross between these two should be pretty obvious and I’m hoping the clone cross attempt, if successful, is also as obvious


Edited by fahtster (12/31/22 12:59 PM)


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Offline1WithU
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28120042 - 01/01/23 01:12 PM (1 year, 26 days ago)

:popcorn:


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: 1WithU] * 2
    #28120116 - 01/01/23 02:27 PM (1 year, 26 days ago)

Yeti clone jar is moving fast and looking clean.  Hopefully getting to GLC’ing this to 2 qts and a few new 4oz jars tomorrow.  If I have my timing correct, the new yeti 4oz jar and mak 118 revival jar will start showing growth at the same time


The yeti clone is untested but it’s from a normal looking yeti fruit so even if the clone isn’t that great of a producer, it should look normal


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OfflineLewDoja
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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28120160 - 01/01/23 03:04 PM (1 year, 26 days ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
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      Trades pending:
if we have any pending trades or you never received anything that you were expecting send a PM with details.  I've had a lot going on, and may have overlooked something as well as USPS snafu's.


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Re: I’ve got a hunch.. EASY clone crossing [Re: fahtster]
    #28120198 - 01/01/23 03:39 PM (1 year, 26 days ago)

:creepylurker:


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