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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
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[CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges 1
#27537170 - 11/09/21 11:17 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges November 9, 2021 - NBC Los Angeles
"We have seen a 1,000% increase over the last five years as a result of overdoses and deaths by fentanyl," Spitzer said. "Statewide, fentanyl deaths are up 1,513%. Rich, poor, Black, white, Brown, men, women, children, hardcore drug users and first-time drug users who are exposed have died."
Orange County District Attorney Todd Spitzer announced Tuesday his office will now pursue murder charges against convicted drug dealers who peddle dope that leads to a death, an effort also being undertaken in Riverside County.
Spitzer said the practice will work much like the so-called Watson Waiver, which permits second-degree murder charges against convicted drunken drivers involved in a deadly crash. The major difference, however, is the Watson Waiver has been approved by state lawmakers and is established legal precedence.
An effort to pass a similar law against convicted drug dealers peddling fentanyl earlier this year failed to get out of committee in Sacramento.
Spitzer was joined in the announcement by Riverside County District Attorney Mike Hestrin, who said his office has already filed seven such cases and has three more in the pipeline.
Several parents whose children died as a result of taking lethal doses of fentanyl also joined Tuesday's news conference, calling on parents and educators to relay the message of how deadly the drug has become, especially in the case of counterfeits that are being illegally manufactured and trafficked into the country.
"We have seen a 1,000% increase over the last five years as a result of overdoses and deaths by fentanyl,'' Spitzer said. "Statewide, fentanyl deaths are up 1,513%. Rich, poor, Black, white, Brown, men, women, children, hardcore drug users and first-time drug users who are exposed have died.''
Spitzer said there were 450 deaths pending toxicology tests to determine the cause in the Orange County Sheriff's Coroner's Office.
"Those are all going to be related to fentanyl,'' Spitzer said.
Spitzer said the drug is "50 times more potent than morphine,'' adding it is "cheap, it's easy to get.''
Because so little is needed for a high, it is also easier to conceal, Spitzer said.
Spitzer said he was working with law enforcement officials in the county to also give drug dealers "advisements'' that if they are busted again for drugs and someone dies they could be on the hook under the legal theory of implied malice murder.
Spitzer brushed aside the fact that state lawmakers rejected the concept. The state law would have allowed for voluntary manslaughter or second-degree murder for convicted fentanyl dealers.
"If they don't want to be aggressive about all these young people dying then shame on the state Legislature,'' Spitzer said. "Because the state Legislature has an epidemic. They understand a pandemic, but they certainly need to understand they have an epidemic when it comes to fentanyl.''
But Spitzer said, "We're going to be arguing, trying to convince judges and juries. That's just what we do. We fight for victims. We try to stop future crimes from happening. We try to save lives. This is pathetic. This is horrible. This is beyond imagination.''
Hestrin said fentanyl has been a game-changer in the drug trade.
"Fentanyl has changed the entire nature of drug use and drug dealing,'' Hestrin said. "In Riverside County in 2016 we had two fentanyl-related deaths. This year we're on pace to have 500 to 600 fentanyl-related deaths. The deaths are doubling every year.''
Fentanyl "is so lethal. It is poisoning our communities,'' Hestrin said.
"So I decided we weren't going to do things the old way,'' he said of going after fentanyl pushers.
Matt Capelouto's 20-year-old daughter died after ingesting fentanyl two days before Christmas 2019. He was behind the effort to get state lawmakers to approve Alexandra's Law.
Capelouto said his efforts to push for the law is "not grounded in anger or revenge.''
He said his daughter bought what she thought was oxycodone from a drug dealer she contacted through Snapchat.
"The pills she took were fake and filled with deadly amounts of fentanyl,'' Capelouto said. "Initially, her death was listed as accidental overdose, but she was poisoned. The word overdose does not accurately describe this crime. They make a conscious decision to sell a fake pill to a human being without regard for the repercussions.''
Perla Mendoza said her son was suffering from depression and having trouble with insomnia, and was prescribed sleep medication. But when a doctor would not refill a prescription because of concerns about addiction, her son contacted someone on Snapchat, who delivered a drug to him.
"One pill killed my son,'' Mendoza said. "I don't want this to happen to anyone else in our community."
She wanted to warn parents about the dangers of drugs.
"Parents, this could happen to any of us,'' she said. "My son was a good boy. He had a dream of helping others. He was funny, a loving son. My only son. He was born on Christmas Eve, my Christmas gift... No one is immune to this nasty poisoning.''
Another mom, Amy Neville, said last year her 14-year-old son died after consuming a "single, counterfeit pill containing fentanyl."
"Unfortunately he had been experimenting with cannabis,'' and he got the drug from a dealer who was connected to two other deaths in Orange County, she said.
"I believe to drive down the deaths we need to drive down the demand,'' Neville said.
But, also, a crackdown on the dealers is necessary, Neville said.
"They should be considered culpable," Neville said.
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: veggie] 1
#27537193 - 11/09/21 11:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds fair
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: Eminence]
#27537271 - 11/10/21 02:14 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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When I read about fentanyl pill overdoses, I always wonder whether it was caused by some idiot dealer (or customer) that received pills of wholesale fentanyl--a news show a month ago showed some pictures of these, and they are marked with the dosage--10, 20, or 30. 30 is enough to kill 15 people, but the real danger would only happen if it got into the hands of someone that didn't know it was a wholesale quantity.
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Holybullshit
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: Eminence] 1
#27537475 - 11/10/21 07:23 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not really.
How do you define "dealer".
For example, you and I could be friends, both addicts, and maybe I know someone who sells dope but they don't like meeting new people, or this is how I afford my habit, etc. and this is something I/we do on the regular...and you give me $50 to throw in with my own $$ to go pick up a few bags...I go pick up the dope, drop yours off with you, go on my way...next day you are dead from a fentanyl OD...now I'm potentially on the hook.
And chances are the guy I got it from was an addict himself, and may have had no clue the dope he was selling had fent in it.
A lot, if not most, of bottom tier sales of opiates are from addict to addict, people fueling their own addiction. It's not like they made the fent, or even always knowingly sold it. And they sure as fuck didn't dose them with it...they shouldn't be responsible for someone else's reckless dosing, or possibly even intentional suicide, both of which would be pretty fucking hard to know about without witnesses or at least a note.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to punish people who profit from knowingly sell fentanyl to the unsuspecting(although who would be unsuspecting these days? not many, its a very widely known risk of buying opiates, in any form, on the black market) while not using the drug themselves.
But that's generally not how laws like this end up getting used...and drug laws punish people enough.
Besides I don't see how it could possibly be construed as "murder" without intent. It'd be manslaughter at best.
Edited by Holybullshit (11/10/21 07:41 AM)
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Holybullshit
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27537488 - 11/10/21 07:30 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: When I read about fentanyl pill overdoses, I always wonder whether it was caused by some idiot dealer (or customer) that received pills of wholesale fentanyl--a news show a month ago showed some pictures of these, and they are marked with the dosage--10, 20, or 30. 30 is enough to kill 15 people, but the real danger would only happen if it got into the hands of someone that didn't know it was a wholesale quantity.
I'd be very interested in a link on that, as I've never seen anything like it. Maybe they exist, I dunno, but it's more likely the "news" was showing regular fent pills intended for retail sale(while definitely strong enough to kill someone opiate naive, not 30, unless it was a single hot dosed pill) and it's more likely the "news" was making it up or working from police misinformation...I mean, how'd they even get that info? I've never seen LEO release test results like that.
LEO probably weighed the whole pill, then treated it as if if were 100% fentanyl, like they always do...did the "math" and then sent that information right out into the propaganda stream.
Edited by Holybullshit (11/10/21 07:43 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: Holybullshit]
#27537495 - 11/10/21 07:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Richard B. Gaworecki said: Just be wicked careful.
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: Holybullshit]
#27537525 - 11/10/21 08:10 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holybullshit said:
Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: a news show a month ago showed some pictures of these, and they are marked with the dosage--10, 20, or 30.
I'd be very interested in a link on that
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27468561
The dosage claim is at 6:35. The dealer/manufacturer is very clear about it. I take it that's very uncommon.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27538960 - 11/11/21 08:43 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Unfortunately he had been experimenting with cannabis
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27539121 - 11/11/21 11:14 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I still don't know if I believe it. The stamps are to mimic oxycodone manufacturer mallinckrodt, maybe they are putting 30mg into it, I obviously can't refute it, but from DEA seizure reports they typically contain, on the high end, 3-6mg(though that number is including the one's made to look like old school oxy 80's as well, which may be made to be stronger). With about 40% of seizures exceeding 2mg, and 20% exceeding 5mg. I've never seen lab reports, or a reference to lab analysis, on counterfeit pain pills which show the batch was intended to be dosed anywhere near that high. And 2mg is generally considered a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl for an opioid naive individual, depending on route of administration, oral has a relatively low bioavailability.
Essentially he/they could be the only one's dosing them at that level...I mean, what would be the point into pressing them into fake oxycodone pills just for transport? They are pressed into that shape for retail sale, not to be re-pulverized and reformulated on the other side of the border.
Edited by Holybullshit (11/11/21 11:26 AM)
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

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Re: [CA] If a Person Dies of Fentanyl Overdose, Dealer Could Face Murder Charges [Re: Holybullshit]
#27539911 - 11/11/21 11:22 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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You make some compelling points. But as for why it's pressed into pills, it could be because a bottle of pills seldom gets examined by airports, and potentially not by border controls. A 30 mg pill is also a hell of a lot easier to measure than 30 mg of powder. Right now I'm taking a 5 mg pill split into 1 mg doses. I can do it visually with a razor blade and mirror, and the accuracy is more than sufficient. It would be way harder if I had a bag of powder and needed to weigh out 1 mg each time (or a few mg, if the medicine includes a lot of binders). My scales couldn't even handle that.
The point is that cutting a 30 mg pill might be more feasible than a bag of powder. That said, nothing mainstream news or law enforcement says about drugs is that credible. You may be right that they aren't really "wholesale" pills.
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