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OfflineAncestralWisdom
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Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization
    #27314090 - 05/18/21 07:35 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

I read the following in an old post on this site, in an attempt to find the answer to why steam sterilization is not adequate for grain: "If you plan on using GRAIN, you need a PC because GRAIN, unlike BRF, contains BACTERIA... bacterial endospores don't die at temps below 212! Mold does... but not bacteria."
Is this true? Wouldn't flour (ground grain) contain the same bacteria the whole grain does? Sorry if this is a newbie question, I'm honestly trying to figure out why steaming would not work for grain. Has anyone tried it and failed miserably? What is the result?

Thanks in advance for answering a newbie question!


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OfflineLand Trout
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: AncestralWisdom]
    #27314108 - 05/18/21 07:54 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

I know many, including myself have tried and failed.  Even with a bad vent pipe and my pc wasn’t getting up to 15 psi without me adjusting my run time has caused bacterial outbreaks in some runs.  Steam alone at normal atmospheric pressure does work, it just takes many more hours, more water and more energy.  Using a pc is the fastest most effect any way to run grains. 
Your correct that the endoscope would still exist after milling the grain, I don’t have a real educated answer for that one.


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Invisiblestubb
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Land Trout]
    #27314126 - 05/18/21 08:22 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

Steam sterilization is adequate for grains, you just have to do it for several hours if at Earth's ambient pressure.  It takes less time in higher pressures:  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24807445#24807445

Quote:

GRAIN, unlike BRF, contains BACTERIA



This is bullshit.  All grains harbor bacteria, whole or floured, and BRF is no exception.


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OfflineLand Trout
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: stubb]
    #27314175 - 05/18/21 09:12 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

More like all things harbor bacteria.


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OfflineAncestralWisdom
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: stubb]
    #27314213 - 05/18/21 09:42 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

That's what I figured. So if this is true, why do people tend to have success with BRF sterilized with steam for 60 minutes, but not with grain?


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OfflineBakedbeings
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: AncestralWisdom]
    #27314229 - 05/18/21 10:00 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

since the difference between flour and grain is purely structural, i would assume therein lies the reason. a grain is designed to protect its insides, so its better at resisting heat. maybe.

all i know is i tried steaming grain for 2 hours and it contamed like a muthafucka


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OfflineAncestralWisdom
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27315104 - 05/19/21 02:48 PM (3 months, 27 days ago)

That makes sense! Did you process it in any other way (soaking and boiling?) before putting it in jars and steaming? I wonder if that might sterilize the inside of the grain.


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: AncestralWisdom]
    #27315128 - 05/19/21 03:17 PM (3 months, 27 days ago)

You can use steam to sterilize grains, but it takes ALOT longer than a PC does.  Bulk Sterilizers like this suggest 12-24 hours - trying to do that on a small scale by babysitting a hot pot of water for 6-8 hours to get 6 quarts of spawn is simply not a good use of most people's time.


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OfflineBakedbeings
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: PBJ710]
    #27315185 - 05/19/21 04:18 PM (3 months, 27 days ago)

yes a pressure cooker is not necessary by any means it is there to save you time and money.

to the other question, yes grains are always cooked first but thats still happening at 100C, not enough to do the job


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OfflineSurgeon
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27315801 - 05/20/21 04:20 AM (3 months, 27 days ago)

Do you boys know how much pressure electronic pressure cookers generate? I have been using mine to sterilize BRF jars and it seems to work. But then I sterilize wood and it breaks out in some sort of mold growth as soon as fresh air is cut off to it...


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OfflineSurgeon
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Surgeon]
    #27315802 - 05/20/21 04:24 AM (3 months, 27 days ago)

Okay, answering my own question here I guess. The internet says 11 psi. So that makes it 210 minutes of sterilization according to the chart stubb posted... Holy shit... 3.5 hours....


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Surgeon]
    #27315835 - 05/20/21 05:26 AM (3 months, 27 days ago)

That's not bad considering most of us pc our grain for 2 hours at 15psi.


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OfflineXyberSurfer21
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27315991 - 05/20/21 10:06 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

Pressure cooker sterilizes due to containing the heat and reaching measureable pressure consistantly, more easily.


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OfflineSurgeon
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27317058 - 05/21/21 04:05 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

I thought you guys did grains for an hour at 15 psi? Or even 25 minutes? Or am I confusing this with BRF jars?


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Surgeon]
    #27317064 - 05/21/21 04:26 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

Grains have to be pc'd longer than a hour at 15psi.
I had good results pc'ing wbs for 1 hr but recently changed to 2 hours because of grain problems.
Better safe than sorry.


Edited by DERRAYLD (05/21/21 04:27 AM)


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InvisibleGoatriderS
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Surgeon]
    #27317065 - 05/21/21 04:27 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Surgeon said:
I thought you guys did grains for an hour at 15 psi? Or even 25 minutes? Or am I confusing this with BRF jars?




25 minutes for agar.
BRF for at least 90mins, better 120.

          :cookiemonster:


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OfflineSurgeon
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Goatrider]
    #27317072 - 05/21/21 04:41 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

Whoa! I have been sailing pretty close to the wind then. PCing jars for an hour and thinking I am overdoing it.  :hehehe:

Well, now I see why my timber sterilization fails at 120 minutes...


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OfflineLand Trout
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Surgeon]
    #27317230 - 05/21/21 09:55 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

I run grain for two.  What is timber sterilization?


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: Land Trout]
    #27317253 - 05/21/21 10:15 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Land Trout said:
I run grain for two.  What is timber sterilization?




Wood sterilizing I assume?


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OfflineLand Trout
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Re: Reason a pressure cooker is required for grain sterilization [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27317297 - 05/21/21 10:48 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

That’s interesting cause I did hundreds of bags of sawdust without any sterilization or pasteurization and lost less than ten percent, and those were only to gnats and grubs or trials of bags without gas exchange.


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