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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Registered: 08/11/17
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Trump's tax cuts failure
    #25613906 - 11/14/18 09:46 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Little article I read today on the CBC. 

It's just a really quick analysis of the Trump tax cut and trickle down economics.  The gist of it is so simple as to be embarrassing to type out and explain.  Basically, it says that when you give all the money to a few rich people, they tend to hoard it and use it to further entrench their already outrageous social positions. 

Duh.



More than $100 billion US in tax cuts that were supposed to "make America great again" went into the pockets of well-off investors in U.S. tech companies


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky


Edited by VroomerMcZoomers (11/14/18 12:20 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 4
    #25613916 - 11/14/18 09:53 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

It's not a failure for the people in power.  Joe Six-Pack will have to make up the difference with massive spending cuts when the next economic recession comes into play.

As far as social positions, it's all about the money here.  The rich getter richer while the economic inequality grows even larger.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: qman] * 1
    #25614424 - 11/14/18 01:26 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's not a failure for the people in power.  Joe Six-Pack will have to make up the difference with massive spending cuts when the next economic recession comes into play.

As far as social positions, it's all about the money here.  The rich getter richer while the economic inequality grows even larger.



I completely agree this tax cut was designed to make the rich richer and they told us it would help the poor by passing the tax cuts into new jobs and while a few hundred companies created very minimal jobs, small wage increases the rest didn't. Everyone I know whether you work at rite aid or pest control is lucky to get 14$ hour. Even the friends I've had that have moved up in the company make no more then 17$. The cost of living is so high that most break even essentially. The tax cuts aren't helping anyone but the rich.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 4
    #25614519 - 11/14/18 02:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

It's amazing how many people bought into the idea that if we just give money to the super rich in the form of tax cuts, instead of giving it to the general public in the form of goods and services, somehow we'll all be better off.

This is an old picture, but oh so true:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleMr_Happyface
Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 90
Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25614551 - 11/14/18 02:18 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Do any of you actually have a job?

I saw a noticeable increase in my net pay, and I'm pretty fuckin far from 'rich'. Not to mention this year when I do my taxes I'm going to pay substantially less, because the standard deduction has doubled.


If the 'rich' who pay the vast VAST majority of taxes in this country get a break too, GOOD FOR THEM, they pay way more than I do. Don't be a jealous little bitch - money isn't a zero sum game. Just because they have more doesn't mean you have less.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25614563 - 11/14/18 02:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's amazing how many people bought into the idea that if we just give money to the super rich in the form of tax cuts, instead of giving it to the general public in the form of goods and services, somehow we'll all be better off.




I don't even think the "capitalists" buy into the trickle down theory anymore, but I don't see how it's going to stop.      :shrug:


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #25614617 - 11/14/18 02:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:

<snip> this tax cut <snip> they told us it would help the poor by passing the tax cuts into new jobs





do you remember how they so proudly touted the fact that middle and lower class workers were seeing more money in their paychecks?  not only are the amounts p insignificant in the big scheme of things, but for many people those tax cuts will fade away within a few years because that expiration is built into the legislation.  excuse me; it's built in for just about everyone except those who are already wealthy.  i think i calculated that the extra ~$11 i'm getting every two weeks will be gone in about another two years (? approximately?  i think i purposefully forgot the date when my taxes will increase because it pissed me off).  at that point i'll be paying more if the current plan isn't modified.

but i kept seeing them trot out regular joe and jane schmoes and quoting them being sooooo happy they were allowed to keep an extra five to twenty dollars of their hard earned money every couple of weeks...and how this was such a huge win for both the commoner as well as the republican party.  it's pretty ridiculous.


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface] * 2
    #25614651 - 11/14/18 02:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
Do any of you actually have a job?




afaik, every regular poster in this forum is gainfully employed and at least a couple who post here easily make six figures.

Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
I saw a noticeable increase in my net pay, and I'm pretty fuckin far from 'rich'. Not to mention this year when I do my taxes I'm going to pay substantially less, because the standard deduction has doubled.




cool story


Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
If the 'rich' who pay the vast VAST majority of taxes in this country get a break too, GOOD FOR THEM, they pay way more than I do.




as well they should.  they should pay closer to the rates seen in the 1950's.  but i'm sure they love it when people like you advocate on their behalf; well done.


Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
Don't be a jealous little bitch - money isn't a zero sum game. Just because they have more doesn't mean you have less.




don't be a caustic little troll.  just because you can doesn't mean you should.


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InvisibleMr_Happyface
Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 90
Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: relic]
    #25614687 - 11/14/18 03:09 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)


Dude, your entire argument is based on jealousy.

"Cool story"? You mean the anecdote that disproves your theory that it's tax cuts for the rich? Ok, I guess you can brush it of like that.

Point is: I'm not rich, I got money from the cuts. Not just a little. A lot.



I'll advocate on almost anyone's behalf against the Government, The rich pay a fuckload in taxes - Do I think they should get to keep more of their own money? Yes.

Do I think the same about the middle class and the poor? Yes.


Am I not going to make that argument because I'm not rich, or because I'm jealous? No.


Edited by Mr_Happyface (11/14/18 03:10 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface]
    #25614712 - 11/14/18 03:20 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you think the rich pay such a high overall percentage of taxes today?


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InvisibleMr_Happyface
Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 90
Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: qman]
    #25614738 - 11/14/18 03:34 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Why do you think the rich pay such a high overall percentage of taxes today?





Just make your point.


Here's the deal. The 'rich' are not taking money from you. The fact that they have a lot doesn't mean there's less for you in any way.

I think progressive taxes are not moral, they should pay the exact same % as I do, only of a higher amount.


Simplify the tax code so there's no benefit to paying for an army of accountants, lower the percentage taken, and apply it evenly across the board. Anything else is using the threat of violence (by the government) to steal from others for your own gain.


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Registered: 10/14/14
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface] * 3
    #25614742 - 11/14/18 03:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:

Dude, your entire argument is based on jealousy.




no, you're projecting. 

the only argument, using the term loosely, i've made is an economic one based on historic precedent.  no emotions were involved in stating that wealthy people should pay closer to the rates of the 1950's.


Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
"Cool story"? You mean the anecdote that disproves your theory that it's tax cuts for the rich? Ok, I guess you can brush it of like that.




you're confused and attributing to me a theory i did not state.  at best your comprehension is lacking and at worst that's a bad faith, disingenuous way to make a point.


Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
Point is: I'm not rich, I got money from the cuts. Not just a little. A lot.




"a lot" is subjective and means little in the context of this discussion.


Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
I'll advocate on almost anyone's behalf against the Government, The rich pay a fuckload in taxes - Do I think they should get to keep more of their own money? Yes.

Do I think the same about the middle class and the poor? Yes.


Am I not going to make that argument because I'm not rich, or because I'm jealous? No.





cool.  you're holding water for the wealthy and advocating a reduction of the total receivables collected by our government.


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InvisibleMr_Happyface
Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 90
Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: relic]
    #25614749 - 11/14/18 03:40 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
cool.  you're holding water for the wealthy and advocating a reduction of the total receivables collected by our government.





You're right. Fuck them, we should take everything they have.

Who cares - I'm not one of them.


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface] * 5
    #25614753 - 11/14/18 03:40 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

you're asserting that a progressive tax code is equivalent to stealing. 

ok, i see what i'm dealing with now.  thanks for your contribution to the forum.


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: relic] * 4
    #25614788 - 11/14/18 03:53 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

The oligarchs don't spend billions annually on brainwashing because propaganda doesn't work.

Someone comes on here blabing about how they earned it or whatever and how one class taking all the money doesn't leave less for others.

Tripe. 

Fortunes are not maintained through honest hard work.  Once you are in that club, you don't work for a living, you OWN for a living.  Once you are there, you don't have to do a damned thing for your money.  If you put $100,000,000 in the bank @3% and did nothing, the interest would be 3 million a year!  How much work does that take?  Nothing! 

That's our system. 

Meanwhile there are millions of Americans who work very hard for poverty wages WHILE THE CORPORATION PROFITS BILLIONS and sends that money to pay rich people who own it via stocks.  You think if profits were shared with workers, it might put more money in their pockets?

And now that it's not enough to own everything and get money sent to them for doing no work, the rich don't want to pay tax anymore either.

And moles will pop out the woodwork to regurgitate what they heard on David Koch's public relations network. 

I shake my head.  It's no wonder the world is in such a state.


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky


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Offlineqman
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface] * 3
    #25614819 - 11/14/18 04:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
Quote:

qman said:
Why do you think the rich pay such a high overall percentage of taxes today?





Just make your point.


Here's the deal. The 'rich' are not taking money from you. The fact that they have a lot doesn't mean there's less for you in any way.

I think progressive taxes are not moral, they should pay the exact same % as I do, only of a higher amount.


Simplify the tax code so there's no benefit to paying for an army of accountants, lower the percentage taken, and apply it evenly across the board. Anything else is using the threat of violence (by the government) to steal from others for your own gain.




Actually, in many cases the rich getting richer does come at the EXPENSE of the working class, it's naive to suggest otherwise.

You do realize lower wages results in higher profitability?   

As far as tax rates,  most of the rich don't pay anywhere near that actually rate, I'm interested in the effective rate. 

This year the Federal government is projected to run a $1 trillion deficit, so instead of paying the taxes to run a balanced budget, the elite are going to buy the bonds and collect interest payments.  Sounds like a good deal, correct?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: qman] * 1
    #25614903 - 11/14/18 04:49 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Many an article citing record tax collection, for instance:

https://www.westernjournal.com/despite-trump-tax-cuts-feds-claiming-record-haul-2018/

Yet...sifting through carefully crafted words, it appears that individual taxes have an increase, wheres corporate tax collection is lowering. The nomenclature/ lingo used when it comes to taxes, I have always found perplexing.....I don't think it's by happenstance that both sides use this to confuse the fuck out of everyone.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: Mr_Happyface] * 3
    #25615021 - 11/14/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Happyface said:
Do any of you actually have a job?

I saw a noticeable increase in my net pay, and I'm pretty fuckin far from 'rich'. Not to mention this year when I do my taxes I'm going to pay substantially less, because the standard deduction has doubled.


If the 'rich' who pay the vast VAST majority of taxes in this country get a break too, GOOD FOR THEM, they pay way more than I do. Don't be a jealous little bitch - money isn't a zero sum game. Just because they have more doesn't mean you have less.




Yeah the standard deduction doubled. And they got rid of the personal exemptions. For a single person this is almost a wash. If you have kids, especially kids over 17 who are still dependents, you got totally fucked. If you are taking care of a dependent parent or any sick or disabled family member, you can no longer get an exemption for them either. Maybe you shouldn’t be lecturing people who actual know the details of the law, because you seem clueless.

I kinda feel sorry for you. A tump buttlicker who fell for their trick. It’s kinda sad people who are so ignorant are allowed to vote. Why does everyone have to pay for your gullibility?


Edited by koods (11/14/18 06:56 PM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25615043 - 11/14/18 06:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

The only tax cuts did one thing: they fucked democrats up the butt.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump's tax cuts failure [Re: starfire_xes]
    #25615047 - 11/14/18 06:16 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah we got fucked into a 40 seat gain in the house.

Most people aren’t clueless about the tax bill like mr happy face. We won’t be devasted by our tax bill next year. I hope mr. happy face withheld properly , or he’s gonna owe money.


Edited by koods (11/14/18 06:18 PM)


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