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OfflineCrawler
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Can Mind function without Ego?
    #20956614 - 12/10/14 09:28 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Hahahahaha, nevermind :thumbup:
The O.C. - Patrick Park - Life Is A Song


Edited by Crawler (12/10/14 09:51 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Crawler]
    #20958552 - 12/10/14 05:30 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

ego is imaginary
mind functions anyway


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #20958662 - 12/10/14 05:52 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, ego is a product of the mind, which gives us point of view and perceptions. But that is the only mechanism we really have as a society to relate to the world around us and each other. There are other ways to relate to the world around you other than the I/ thou relationship that we have developed. But our language, grammar and thought processes are basically what creates the ego.

I've heard of a tribe of people somewhere that use no personal pronouns, they believe there is no separation between them, mentally or physically. Which must drastically shift their consciousness away from egotistical habits and thoughts.

It's all about how you relate to everything around you, change your brain and the whole world changes. Much easier said than done though. You would have to retrain your entire way of thinking and relating to everything.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: maddad]
    #20958746 - 12/10/14 06:12 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I think there must have been a time before we developed an identity and language, that our actions were more guided by instinct, as our thoughts werent in the form of our language, the inner monologue that runs through our heads.
That must have been an interesting shift in consciousness that allowed us to organize our thoughts into a spoken language.
And in the early days of language I wonder if we regarded our own thoughts as coming from an other... direction from god perhaps.
It makes me ponder how we developed the concept of I.. we became our own gods in a sense yea?


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: mushpunx] * 1
    #20958922 - 12/10/14 06:42 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

My thoughts often aren't in the form of language.  Language is very limiting.

Ego is just a mistaken identification with the process of life, but in and of itself accomplishes nothing useful at all. :shrug:

The idea that you even, as an organism, possess "volition" is suspect in the light of brain scan studies that show the motor neurons activating well before the perception a "willed" motion appears in consciousness.  It's always a game of catch-up for ego. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20959665 - 12/10/14 09:23 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by dixienormous

Reason for deletion: q



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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: dixienormous]
    #20959886 - 12/10/14 10:21 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, we're all snitches here. :bsflag::laugh2:



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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Crawler]
    #20959921 - 12/10/14 10:36 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crawler said:
Hahahahaha, nevermind :thumbup:
The O.C. - Patrick Park - Life Is A Song



Do you mean identity or the awareness of one's own existence? I believe that even in dissociative states one perceives oneself as a localized interface with reality, I'm basing this on my experiences on salvia. It's the identity that's dissolved, the mind can clearly function without this but I don't think it can override the concept of self as the organism, although the awareness of the understanding of this concept is obviously not required.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20959953 - 12/10/14 10:47 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I'm with you on that, ego is to mind like, well, like a bicycle is to a fish.  Just kind of a pain in the butt to have to haul around. :shrug:

I've been in mushroom states where there was absolutely no identification with any sort of "human" ideation.  I can't imagine it gets much more basic than that, regardless of how hard it is to hang onto that clarity outside of the trip.

:peace:PS


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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20960034 - 12/10/14 11:14 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I'm with you on that, ego is to mind like, well, like a bicycle is to a fish.  Just kind of a pain in the butt to have to haul around. :shrug:



This is only because humans on Earth aren't in harmony. "Ego" is an unclear term, but boundaries are the problem, and they aren't a requirement of the perception of self.

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I've been in mushroom states where there was absolutely no identification with any sort of "human" ideation.



The ideation is still human, but what you mean is that it's alien to the experiences of the world. This is the goal, and I appreciate that you achieved it on these trips.

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
  I can't imagine it gets much more basic than that, regardless of how hard it is to hang onto that clarity outside of the trip.

:peace:PS



There's a deep psychological shift required to overcome irrational fear that I don't know how to accelerate outside the context of continuing to get as high as possible. How much of the time should be spent high in order to optimize the learning process I have no idea. It wasn't something I was able to do immediately, it took many repetitions and a period of years in which I didn't understand the fundamental nature of what was revealed to me through my psychedelic states.


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I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20960060 - 12/10/14 11:22 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

It's not "human" ideation if it's not ideation.  That's my point.  No separation at all, simple enlightening experience. :thumbup:

Quote:

How much of the time should be spent high in order to optimize the learning process I have no idea. It wasn't something I was able to do immediately, it took many repetitions and a period of years in which I didn't understand the fundamental nature of what was revealed to me through my psychedelic states.




That's an apt description to be sure. :thumbup:

I've spent several thousand hours so far shroomed.  It leads to some interesting places that are not otherwise accessible, and my impression is that it requires a fair amount of neurogenesis to activate this switch.  But I have nothing to compare it to except the fact that it didn't happen the same way in the beginning. :shrug:

:peace:PS


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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20960100 - 12/10/14 11:32 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
It's not "human" ideation if it's not ideation.  That's my point.  No separation at all, simple enlightening experience. :thumbup:



Oh, how is ideation defined then? It seems to me that perception and experience still rely on the generation of ideas, even if they aren't expressible in any known language.

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I've spent several thousand hours so far shroomed.  It leads to some interesting places that are not otherwise accessible, and my impression is that it requires a fair amount of neurogenesis to activate this switch.  But I have nothing to compare it to except the fact that it didn't happen the same way in the beginning. :shrug:

:peace:PS



What was different about the way it happened in the beginning?


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I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20960121 - 12/10/14 11:38 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I mean it didn't happen in the beginning, and it happens now, and one of the differences is the amount of time spent tripping.  I can't do it without having done it; no control on that experiment. :lol:

I'm not defining ideation any particular way here, but the ordinary sense is "the formation of ideas or concepts" which is a human thing, obviously - why I put "human" in quotes to make it clearer.  Sense perception doesn't depend on ideas or concepts, it just is, and massively parallel, rather than linear and sequential.


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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20960205 - 12/11/14 12:00 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Well, I mean it didn't happen in the beginning, and it happens now, and one of the differences is the amount of time spent tripping.  I can't do it without having done it; no control on that experiment. :lol:



I still don't think I understand, do you mean your earlier trips didn't lead to the otherwise inaccessible places that you mentioned?

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I'm not defining ideation any particular way here, but the ordinary sense is "the formation of ideas or concepts" which is a human thing, obviously - why I put "human" in quotes to make it clearer.  Sense perception doesn't depend on ideas or concepts, it just is, and massively parallel, rather than linear and sequential.



I disagree with the idea that perception doesn't rely on ideas, they can be as simple as duration, pitch, number, color or shape but no sensory input is received by the mind without generating any thought about what is being perceived.


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I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Alyssa]
    #20960393 - 12/11/14 01:06 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah of course.  It's only happened in the last few years, following an extensive amount of tripping several days a week for a month or more at a time.  I had some hints of it earlier but that was sporadic.  Entering the realm more often worked some sort of transformation on tripping, even though ordinary reality is much the same, but deeper as well.

IME perception doesn't rely primarily on ideas.  Thought impressions always come later. That's easy to demonstrate as soon as instinctive reactions bypass higher reasoning altogether.

There's a Buddhist meditation method of observing sense impressions before they are codified or abstracted into meaning.  It's quite revealing, because the sense impressions themselves don't carry any meaning at all until they're picked up and classified.


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OfflineCrawler
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20960652 - 12/11/14 03:52 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

So many great answers!

I was wondering if you can function in normal day life, like doing work may it be mathematical or in another asepct.

Ego -> Thoughts like a commentar so to speak
Egoless -> Thoughts cease to exist

On my last trip, on the peak I had the feeling I couldnt talk and thoughts like: Language barrier kept creeping into my head eventually I gave up.



Edited by Crawler (12/11/14 06:10 AM)


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Crawler]
    #20961043 - 12/11/14 08:21 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

ego is a term that means a lot of things depending on your religion or social background


ego is in buddhism, means: sense of self. the self is self constructed as we tend to believe that our thoughts, our taste, our body, our past and future goals, ect is ME: as in, there a person, something that you can call my own, a entity, a self. Im the body, im my thoughts, ect. it causes much more problem then we think it does.

and if one investigate a bit more, you will not find a ME anywhere. there is a tree and my eye do see them, but nobody can point to me exactly who saw that tree. me who? is it my eye who say the tree, is it my analysis of what the tree is, who saw that tree?

is it one self, or many selves?
if im my ideas, my eye, my taste in the mount, my past, my thoughts, im much more then one person?
therefore, in buddhism, the self is seen as simply a illusion and constructed.

and they very much believe that you can indeed live your life ego less, meaning that you dont live in accordance to what you think your self needs, wants, craves and desire to his happiness.

yeah indeed, your thoughts are the most creator of the idea of me, adn the less you think, the more you experiement life really. the thoughts are indeed a sort of barrior between the me and the universe. there no such thing, you are the universe in every way and part of it and theres no distinction imo.

here's a quote:
There is no specific entity in anything. That is emptiness. That is the nothingness. That nothingness is also experienced in meditation. It is empty, it is devoid of a specific person, devoid of a specific thing, devoid of anything which makes it permanent, devoid of anything which even makes it important. The whole thing is in flux. So the emptiness is that. And the emptiness is to be seen everywhere; to be seen in oneself. And that is what is called anatta, non-self. Empty of an entity. There is nobody there. It is all imagination. At first that feels very insecure.


Edited by youknowyou (12/11/14 08:33 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Crawler]
    #20961898 - 12/11/14 12:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crawler said:
So many great answers!

I was wondering if you can function in normal day life, like doing work may it be mathematical or in another asepct.

Ego -> Thoughts like a commentar so to speak
Egoless -> Thoughts cease to exist

On my last trip, on the peak I had the feeling I couldnt talk and thoughts like: Language barrier kept creeping into my head eventually I gave up.






I've done math and physics and writing while shroomed. I think they're great for that, but YMMV. 

OTOH I can't talk on the peak at all, at least not to make sense it takes about an hour before I'm lucid AND tripping.  But talking is overrated IME.  :lol:

You need something entertaining in the meantime, like music. :gimmebass:


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OfflineCrawler
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20962593 - 12/11/14 03:44 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks Soup, last time the music I played became distorted. So I felt uncomfortable and I turned it off. Maybe due to negative feelings and freaking out, but next time I think I'll either sit in complete darkness or turn music on at somepoint :laugh:


Got any suggestions on good music to listen to?


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Mind function without Ego? [Re: Crawler]
    #20962762 - 12/11/14 04:17 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Lots of psychedelic out there...it's that way for a reason. :thumbup:

Hendrix, Tool, Shpongle, all will do you well.  Plenty more as well, some threads on here recently about that. :awecid:

Not to mention DEAD. :dancingbear::dancingbear::dancingbear::dancingbear::dancingbear::dancingbear:


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