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Innoculus


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,535
Loc: 0.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: NariusFractal]
#10096697 - 04/02/09 07:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah well. I've been a little grumpy lately.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,640
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: retrospect]
#10096714 - 04/02/09 07:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is an interesting thought experiment. As its all hypothetical I'm all for it, lets fuck up a kid's life.

The hypothetical kid gets an implant that 24/7 outputs a psychedelic when it is born, with a supply in it that runs out on his 21th birthday.
As I see it..
The kid WILL have an ego. The ego is part of the brain structural software. Its like the DOS thats already in your computer before you put stuff in.
The development of the ego, the grounding into the natural perception of the world will go to shit. He is high 24/7 - there IS NO natural perception, other than what wiggles its way through the cracks of the psychedelic state.
Learning will be fragmented and impaired, more impression based than with us, More of the brains resources probably will be needed managing day to day consciousness than in the more static world we live in.
Socially the kid does not fit in with his peers, which only increases as age progresses. He will be difficult to relate to, compared with his peers.
The kid will be a lot like a trip, floating from one thing to the other, unexpected changes, often charged with strong emotions, short of memory, slipping from one distraction into the next.
As at age 21 the drug wears off, there will be no normalcy for him to return to. Many parts of reality will be as untouched as with a baby, many coping strategies and skills entirely nonexistent. Suddenly ending the drug would be almost as unethical as giving it in the first place. A lot of what the kid has learned about the world no longer applies. He is far outside his comfort zone.
You raise the kid in a completely different reality than the rest of the world lives in, and once he has it down his reality is completely and irreversibly changed yet again.
This is very cruel. I would say beyond monstrous.
Would people attain greater happiness this way? I think not.
Giving a kid a neverending opiate with no tolerance build, and keep him in a protected environment daydreaming his life away would be far more ethical than to do the same with a psychedelic.
(oh btw the kids tattoos are a clever photoshop job by his dad and not actual tats, no worries)
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/02/09 07:43 PM)
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Ima Trooper
Chilldog Extraordinaire



Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 13,557
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: Asante]
#10097098 - 04/02/09 08:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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AHA! Someone who actually replies to the question posed by the OP!
    for you!
-------------------- "Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping. deCypher said: Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.
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skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 18,699
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: Asante]
#10097511 - 04/02/09 09:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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sounds like my life
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Innoculus


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,535
Loc: 0.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: skatealex2]
#10097851 - 04/02/09 10:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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GO HOME!
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skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 18,699
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: Innoculus]
#10097975 - 04/02/09 10:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Innoculus said: GO HOME!
not sure what you mean that? Please elaborate as it seems you are tripping and can maybe give me good insight
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Innoculus


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,535
Loc: 0.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: skatealex2]
#10098063 - 04/02/09 10:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Stop kicking puppies.
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skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 18,699
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: Innoculus]
#10098085 - 04/02/09 10:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Innoculus said: Stop kicking puppies.
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: skatealex2]
#10103441 - 04/04/09 12:49 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, the question was fucking hypothetical, I thought the PE was the sort of place I could discuss my thoughts, without having dickheads jump down my throat making brash assumptions.
This thread was made simply because I was thinking about the possibilities. I understand it could be extremely cruel and torturous, which is why I am not doing it, I just wanted to discuss it with other like minded individuals, and I can't even seem to do that anymore.
The way I see it, drugs like marijuana and psychedelics, do not damage the brain. They open up all sorts of new thought processes, and negative effects experienced from using these drugs come from the way people deal with all this new information. As Lama Anagarika Govinda said in reference to consciousness expansion techniques;
"There are those who, in virtue of concentration and other yogic practices, are able to bring the subconscious into the realm of discriminative consciousness and, thereby, to draw upon the unrestricted treasury of subconscious memory, wherein are stored the records not only of our past lives but the records of the past of our race, the past of humanity, and of all pre-human forms of life, if not of the very consciousness that makes life possible in this universe.
If, through some trick of nature, the gates of an individual's subconsciousness were suddenly to spring open, the unprepared mind would be overwhelmed and crushed. Therefore, the gates of the subconscious are guarded, by all initiates, and hidden behind the veil of mysteries and symbols."
A baby who has just been born has not developed a subconscious, or an ego for that matter, and the ego is not imbeded in the structure of our brain, it is something we form ourselves as we grow. This is quite obvious because Buddhists devote their lives to this sort of practice, the Lama's and people like Buddha and Jesus found ways to live without their ego's and tried to communicate how.
From my experiences, I believe psychedelics take us to the same states that Buddhists learn to reach naturally. In Buddhism all of the states of conscioussness are described, high and low, all of which can be experienced on psychedelics. Psychedelics can take us to higher states of conscioussness and let us experience what monks devote their lives too.
Obviously there are millions of different ways to raise a child, and forcing them into thinking a certain way is disgusting, isn't that after all what society is trying to do to us? A child should learn to think for themselves with the close guidance of a wise individual, but for growth in any individual, they need to learn for themselves and understand the implications of their own choices and actions. This is what is so great about psychedelics, because through personal experience we learn and grow, and I think psychedelic use is best suited for individuals who have already matured and are not in the process of learning and growing.
Now back to the main reason for this thread, this questions was simply raised from my understanding thus far. A baby who has just been born, is hypothetically in a state of pure awareness, there is no ego, and ego is not needed to learn, adapt, develop and grow. So technically if they were given a large dose of a psychedelic when they were born, it wouldn't effect them. I think the only reason why psychedelics effect us so greatly is because our minds contain so much information. But a baby's does not.
Now I don't see why learning, adapting, growing etc. is not possible in a higher state of conscioussness, IMO that's really all psychedelics are doing. But a child who was given a large and sustained dose of some sort of psychedelics, would be able to base it's all of it's mental growth off a higher state of conscioussness.
People freak out and have develop mental disorders from psychedelics only because of the way their brain is structured from their previous experiences. If an enlightened individual like Buddha, or a Lama was given a huge dose of a psychedelic, they would not have any problems, and I doubt the drug would even effect them because they have learnt to control these states naturally. I read an article about some sort of special guy, i'm not sure if he was a shaman, or a monk or what, but he was given over 1000mics of LSD and it did not effect him.
Once you reach 21, you basically stop growing mentally. Of course you can still learn and change the way you think, but you have basically layed down the structure of your brain by then. So the psychedelics were stopped when this child reached 21, my theory was that the structure of the brain would already have been layed down, and the drug would not be needed anymore.
Anyway, i'm allowed to explore all avenues of thought. I thought psychedelic users would understand and practice that themselves, which is why I thought the PE would be the perfect place to discuss something like this. It's simply me trying to understand the way the brain works. On the ethical issue of this sort of thing, I haven't even touched, because I haven't even thought about actually doing this sort of thing, it was simply a thought based on the possibility of creating an enlightened being.
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inkblot
Stranger

Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 220
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: retrospect]
#10113479 - 04/05/09 10:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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*er, nevermind*
Edited by inkblot (04/05/09 10:29 PM)
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shroomman8118
Reality Seeker

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 49
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: Innoculus]
#11174294 - 10/03/09 11:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think that the child would not be normal. not necessarily messed up, but probably more wise and would see the world for what it is early on and probably notice things kids his/her age would not think about. they would most likely know exactly who they were and would most likely not have any depression or anxiety problems. and on his/her 21 bday im sure they wont just stop using psychedelics, probably would grow to love their beauty
-------------------- For a sorcerer, reality, or the world we all know, is only a description that has been pounded into you from the moment you were born. The reality of our day-to-day life, then, consists of an endless flow of perceptual interpretations which we have learned to make in common. - Don Juan
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insmell
Stranger



Registered: 10/09/06
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: shroomman8118]
#11174509 - 10/03/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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But ain't mass media, tv, internet, environment surrounding children do exactly the same things on children nowdays. I mean it's as mind altering as some psychedelic drug...
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crayoladreams
Stranger



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 3
Loc: NorthWest US
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: insmell]
#11181123 - 10/04/09 03:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe there is a way to balence. I think that drugs used responsibly can have a place with a person and maybe cause them to be a better or more enlightened person. This can't happen without some sort of stability. They will need to know what reality is and how to function in it other wise, they'll end up like Jesus... **Person who calls himself Jesus** He's locked up in Central State Hospital in Milledgeville, GA. They suspect he is what happens when you have too many drugs. He think's he is jesus. He does have a few documented unexplanable talents. He always knows what time it is. Inside, outside, light or no light. He has memorized 4 different bibles(KJV, New International Version etc.) and the Koran and a few others. He's never owned a blibe since he's been there. Very interesting guy. Society shut him away cause they didn't understand him.
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Abuse
end of the line


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 6,039
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: crayoladreams]
#11181285 - 10/04/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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he would be a laughing stock to the masses. either that or treated as a mental patient would be. it's a really interesting hypothetical. the switch from a permanent, mad psychedelic lifestyle a complete world apart from society's straight back to sobriety would cause incredibly overwhelming madness beyond point of recovery. Mental damage to that extent is irreversible.
As Wiccan said, completely unethical. (even without switched him back to normality.)
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,613
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Re: Raising a child on psychedelics? [Re: shroomman8118]
#11181540 - 10/04/09 04:43 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would rather raise a child and expect them to live long fulfilling life in a psychedelic using community, rather than my current capitalist one
Look at how "normal" people are now. Hell everyone is going to be on SSRI soon, because in order to get far in this society anxiety is almost a necessary adjunct.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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