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InvisibleSilversoul
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Turn on, Tune in, Drop out
    #4898407 - 11/05/05 08:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

What do you think of this catchphrase? I always had trouble with the last part of it. Is it better to drop out of society than to try to change it from within? I suppose that that would be better in some ways, simply in the sense that you could create your own society, like the hippies did with the communes, and not force your vision onto society as a whole. However, there are things that need to be changed. We cannot continue the course we are taking with our environment, and our relationships with our fellow man(poverty, war, etc.). Leary himself tried to run for governor in California, so was he even following his own advice? Should I, as one who has been turned on the power of psychedelics and tuned in to the issues facing this world, decide to drop out? Or should I work to change the system from within?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4898417 - 11/05/05 08:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I was watching the dvd "Timothy Leary is dead" which was one of the last interviews before they cut his head off and froze it.
One very memorable part in the movie was when the guy asked him "What is one statement you would like to leave the kids?"... Leary responded, "Dont listen to anyone...not even me!".

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Invisiblebudsicle
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4898445 - 11/05/05 08:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

maybe dropping out to some extent is necessary to change society even from within. i think they go hand in hand and that there are different levels of dropping out so its not all black & white like you?d have to go live hermit in some mountain top. when you drop out its such a change in your lifestyle and mindset that you are bound to change society to some extent merely by just doing it.. and succesfully dropping out your example would inspire dozens of people trapped within the system. personally i guess im somewhat a drop out.. im living in the city currently but ive abandoned all plans of more education and succesfull career and concentrate on more meaningful pursuits insteads.

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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: budsicle]
    #4898459 - 11/05/05 08:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

or don't drop out so that you can infiltrate.....and cause even more destruction!

sorry...

i'm drunk and have been listening too some heavy mastadon and opeth...and i'm pretty pumped up

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4898467 - 11/05/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think it depends on whether or not you feel that you owe society something or not.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4898488 - 11/05/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I was just talking about this in the Internet sucks thread. I turned on and tuned in a while ago when I dropped out of mainstream society. I dropped back in since and .......Fuuuuuuuuuck. Now I want to drop out of it again and move back to the islands.

To make change from within, you have to be Highly powerful and Highly influential. Can you get their paradigm? Maybe if you set a plan and a goal. Your young, single almost done with school and your families got dough and connections.

I know more people with kids on meds for ADD /ADHD then I've been able to help convince any of them that drugging up the kids is not the answer. It's like talking to brainwashed brick walls.

I'm ready to split and let society collapse in on itself while I watch from afar.

Props to anyone who goes for creating change from within the system.

What would be a plan or course of action you can see taking if you decide to effect change from within? Where would you start and what fucked up system would you address? There are so many to choose from unfortunately.

If I thought I could do it, I'd go after taking down the FDA first.

The stories I could tell about how freaking corrupt that system is and how they are either making us sick or keeping us from getting well so pharmaceutical companies can get Fat Rich.

Research from Argon national labs showed flouride is more poisonous then lead and a tad less then arsenic. People who brush with it and have it in their drinking water are ODing on it.

Did you know they are keeping out from the U.S. a sunscreen with a specific chemical in it that blocks out the skin cancer causing rays and not just sun burning ones? I saw a wehole documentary on it and wanted to puke. You can get it in any other country but not in the U.S. When they are questioned why, they give some B.S. about it not being researched enough even though peeps in other countries have been using it for 30 years now.

I could go on forever about the FDA being a system that needs to crash. I'll stop now. I respect and admire anyone who can do it. A Lawyer cousin brought down one company a few years back in Lombard Illinois for polluting the water system. Another DA cousin busted up some corrupt mafia ring in Chicago involved with some nasty shit. A docter cousin has been working for more less invasive medical treatments to come into play. People are doing it and it can be done in small steps.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (11/05/05 08:57 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4898893 - 11/05/05 10:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I saved only 2 MAD Magazines from the late 60's. One has Alfred E. Newman on the cover as a beaded long-haired hippy and the words: "Turn On, Tune In, Drop Dead." I always thought that was funny.

It is easier to cut and run than stay in the game and effect personal transformation (we can't transform others without being transformed ourselves). Personally, I feel more for the Arhat who transcends and leaves, than for the Bodhisattva who puts off transcendence and doesn't leave. I already have a masochistic streak which I like to think is in remission. I am in the world, but not of the world. I work within the systems, but I am not an unconscious automaton in The Matrix. I have managed "Right Livelihood" (in the Buddhist sense), I use the resultant money to support a spiritual lifestyle (I must live til I die). My house looks like others on my street, except for the Green Men masks and Tibetan prayer flags that flutter around it. I keep the grass and trees trimmed, but the inner decor might alarm the 'square,' or the fundamentalist Christian, while the Shroomerite would feel comfortable enough to trip here or to plop down in any room or hallway of the house to meditate. I am in the world, but not of the world.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4899015 - 11/05/05 11:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

when he said drop out didn't he mean drop out of the sitcom of american life and not drop out of society? he explains what is meant by the whole phrase in flashbacks, can someone post the quote?

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: porcupine]
    #4899137 - 11/05/05 11:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

So by how you see the phrase "drop out" being used here, it is to mean just dropping out of the old world games, but not from the game of living in the modern world itself?

I still think you need to be in a position of power or influence to effect change from within the system and getting to that place means playing some of the hoop jumping games.

Markos, what are you able to do within the system as a school councilor?
Do you have to follow a protocol of policy or can you create new policies?

A school Principle In the Chicago suburbs adopted a zero bullying tolerance policy at his school and had ALL of the staff go for special training to be able to recognize what intimidation behavior is so they wouldn't be engaging in it with students and to be able to catch students using it on other students.

He set the lead for his district and it was so successful, the other district schools followed it.

People within the system who "are not of it" are making change.

I think you need a plan and a goal to get yourself in a position where you have the power to do it, be it small scale that can have a ripple effect or large scale.

I have hope and see MUCH good happening. I had to remind myself of a lot of it. Sometimes, I get impatient with the pace of change that is so obviously being called for in this world.

Sometimes I wish I could come back and do it all over. I'd get a Law degree and focus on class action suits against anything harming people and the environment. Not all lawyers are scum. Look at what Erin Brockovich did.

If not that, I'd get into Holistic Alternative Medicine. We'll always need emergency medicine, but a lot of the cutting up and doping up of people isn't necessary. I still may go that route up the road.

I don't work now. Maybe thats why I get frustrated sometimes not being in a position of power or influence to effect change. However, raising my daughter, I know that I have brought and raised a very sweet gentle, bright, compassionate human being into this world. Who knows what she may do some day or how many lives she has and will effect for the better. She's softened my dad and father in law up already-he he he.

:heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4899178 - 11/06/05 12:09 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In Turn on, Tune in, Drop out, Timothy Leary advocated dropping out, gaining some new knowledge (eh, something like that, I can't remember right now), then dropping back in.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4899206 - 11/06/05 12:25 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ahhh, thanks for clearing that up. I feel like thats what I did in a way only like I said, I don't feel like I am in any significant position within the system "not being of it" to effect any positive change on a large scale.

I see what he is saying about the dropping out in the sense of pulling back enough to take look at the big picture so you can see how warped so much of reality is. Then, when you drop back in, you know where change could be focused on. You need to be able to see the solutions during that phase as well so you can bring them back in with you.

Some people can stay in it and "see" whats screwy and the solutions at the same time. Paradigm has written a lot of good stuff in PA&L. If he wants to effect change, he has plenty of good ideas for it and places of focus. Just needs to finish school and get in a position to make things happen.

Nice topic and it's nice to see college kids thinking about these things. Very encouraging! :thumbup: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4899242 - 11/06/05 12:43 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

My recollection of that book isnt the best, but I think he compared "dropping out" to Native American vision quests. Going out on a journey alone, having a spiritual/trancendental revelation, then bringing that new knowledge back to the tribe.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4899260 - 11/06/05 12:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think that message was similar to the one John Lennon promoted in the song "Watching the Wheels". I think he just meant to quit playing games and be a real person. Tune in (pay attention to what is around you)Turn on (drop acid) Drop out (quit playing games and be real). I think that was the basic idea in my words. It was really quite a positive message, but the drop out was often interpreted as negative due to it's negative sound. I don't think it was about being antisocial or running away. I think it was about personal growth and transformation.
Leary was a good hearted person, but he was naive. He thought that if we could all just drop acid the transformation was automatic. He forgot that all people see the trip experience in their own personal context. It often verifies ones current beliefs. Many people who listened saw acid as the end...not as just a tool...but the goal.

"Walking through that door
Outside we came
Nowhere at all.
Perhaps the answer's here,
Not there anymore?

Then in our hearts the light broke through,
A path lost for years is there in view."
--The Moody Blues


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4899318 - 11/06/05 01:24 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

i believe that timothy leary happened to find psychedelics at a stage in his life where he was ready to discover the spiritual path and that is why they had such a profound affect on him. because of his personality he couldn't keep it to himself and felt he had to share his revelation with the whole world. however he made the mistake in thinking that everyone who took psychedelics would also discover the spiritual path and undergo a similar personal transformation. of course this did not happen and many people just took them to get high without any intent to change themselves.


his vision was for their to be psycheledic centers set up all around the country administering the drugs under the supervision of trained guides in order to induce a mass awakening. he was really into the "quick fix" idea.

Edited by porcupine (11/06/05 01:33 AM)

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4899340 - 11/06/05 01:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"Drop Out" is OFT misunderstood.

Tim means, drop out of the World's crippling GAMES, and not from the world itself. He spent a GREAT deal of time explaining THAT one part of his MOST FAMOUS phrase.

Perhaps he could've come up with a better catchphrase... but THAT one worked pretty well...


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Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4899586 - 11/06/05 04:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Right. Drop out and be present !
You need no high position in society to change it. Revolution works from the base. It starts even in the supermarket, or in the bus, or in the streets, if you keep real, people wil notice and wonder and start to think. Then they feel what they lost and try to do it themselves. So the waves become bigger and stronger.
The hardest is the honesty while staying real, but its that, what influences the most.
Then of course you need energy-stations as well, like places of calmness and good society with likely-minded people to refill your spiritual accumulator, to go in the 'real' battle out of your confort zone and in to battlefield again.
For me that works wonders and I think strongly. that works for everyone as well...

(you=me=we=people=someone=...)


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Invisibleonceinawhile
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4899670 - 11/06/05 06:57 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in... and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in... it's a rhythm... most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences... turn on, tune in, drop out... period, end of paragraph. Turn the page... it's all a rhythm... it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going... the nervous system works that way... gotta keep it flowing, keep it flowing..."

Flow


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You are complicit if you see or suspect on the basis of reliable evidence that harm is being done to an Other, and in the absorption of your own daily routine say nothing, do nothing, keep the silence that permits hegemonic domination.

Edited by onceinawhile (11/06/05 07:12 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: onceinawhile]
    #4899729 - 11/06/05 07:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4899861 - 11/06/05 09:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

the way i see it, society just means living together in an urban environment... in this context. I dont think you need to "drop out", but if you have the desire and the means to live "off the grid" then by all means do it!

however, i think its more about evaluating the agreements that society asks us to make. like "you should work 8 hours a day until you die"
"watch tv in your free time" "buy buy buy!" "take our pills to ease all your problems" "you need a car to survive"

theres this endless list of things that people allow themselves to accept as true, and in doing so they enslave themselves. just examine all those beliefs society pushes on you and start breaking away from them and living your own way. The way i see it, every day we have a chance to "vote" on what life should be and what humans should be, simply by living in accordance with our own wills...

or something.

short answer: either path can work. i think that living outside of society in nature, generating your own power and food, is the highest goal... but not attainable for most.

so work within the system. realize though that at least in terms of politics, by the time you reach a high level of political power you wont really be able to create any real change... politics demands conformity. people who deviate from the status quo tend to be silenced...

eh


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Icelander]
    #4899878 - 11/06/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think Leary had a lot of great ideas, but his teachings were probably the single most detrimental thing to the 60's movement. His misinterpreted message and his intense focus on drugs basically incapacitated the hippies so that they couldn't make a more significant difference. Sure they made a lot of social changes, but in the end the gov't won and then exploited those changes for it's own advantage (like turing sexual freedom into sexual marketing).

The truth is though, that a lot of people picked and chose what to hear from Leary. They'd all be excited that acid could bring them spiritual enlightenment, but they ignored Leary when he told them not to listen to him. They learned to think for themselves and question authority, but didn't question Leary's authority as much as they should've. The above quote is a fantastic thing, but most people just cut out the "drop back in" part and destroyed it.

CIA conspiracy theories aside, I think he was good person, but did NOT have a good influence.

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4900021 - 11/06/05 10:12 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Turn off, Tune out, Drop in..

:tongue: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Silversoul]
    #4900159 - 11/06/05 11:02 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

After graduating college with my philosophy major I plan to go to law school. I would love to work for an organization like the ACLU or something. I hope I can make some sort of difference. :/

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Gomp]
    #4901441 - 11/06/05 06:21 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Turn off, Tune out, Drop in..

:tongue: :thumbup:


:drooling:It's only funny when you're drinkin Gomp.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Icelander]
    #4901521 - 11/06/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
Turn off, Tune out, Drop in..

:tongue: :thumbup:


:drooling:It's only funny when you're drinkin Gomp.




lol

no fun intended..

:smile:

Edit:

if you have seen this movie.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089504/
maybe you know what I'm getting at?

:grin: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (11/06/05 06:52 PM)

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Turn on, Tune in, Drop out [Re: Gomp]
    #4901533 - 11/06/05 06:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

omg that was smooth


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Everything I post is fiction.

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