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InvisibleHippie3
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The Coffee Project * 1
    #2283143 - 01/29/04 04:25 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

We recently been doing some interesting experiments with coffee over at mycotopia.
see http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/96317.html

our resident mad genius rodger rabbit of the fruiting bible, hemp shroom burrito, hemp ball of twine and Straw Log fruiting fame
has been getting some very encouraging results using coffee as a soak for his grains,
also coffee grounds in his casings, etc.
those are cross-linked as subtopics of the link i just posted above.
we also read that caffeine has been correlated with a boost in sclerotia formation with mexicana
so being the curious sort
we wondered if it might do something for cubensis as well,
esp. considering rodger's coffee results [since coffee contains caffeine].
so we've been trying a few new experiments,
such as a coffee dunk,
to see if we can pin down anything special/useful about
coffee or caffeine.
initial results have been encouraging,
but as always,
more experiments are needed.
so click the link,
read what we've done/are doing,
and plz consider doing a few experiments
of your own to help us all
pin this thing down one way or the other.
thx.
rodger sez-
these jars were straight rye, no casing, but hydrated in diluted coffee. You decide. I say it's the coffee, but damned if I know what 'part' of the coffee did it.


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Offlinedistortion
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283150 - 01/29/04 04:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

damn, that's some EXPLOSIVE invitro  :eek:


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283184 - 01/29/04 04:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Woow, great experiment  :thumbup:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: distortion]
    #2283187 - 01/29/04 04:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

no doubt,
esp. when one considers that the strain
used was the PR [puerto rico],
a strain notorious for being
a difficult pinner.
not to mention the fact that normally
pure grain pins very poorly until
it's cased.


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/30/04 04:15 PM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283229 - 01/29/04 05:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

more from rodger-
Ok, it's the coffee. Here's another series. These jars were inoculated 26 days ago.


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/29/04 06:44 PM)


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283237 - 01/29/04 05:29 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wow!  :shocked:


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283271 - 01/29/04 05:45 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

has anyone tried tea yet?


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OfflineTheProfessor
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283343 - 01/29/04 06:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Has anyone ingested these? Wheres the trip report...


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: TheProfessor]
    #2283364 - 01/29/04 06:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

id be worried about the caffiene somehow ending up in the mushrooms at the end. caffiene can really spin a trip and give it some intensity that is very unnecesary. although, if its just a wash on the substrate...it might not absorb any at all. ill give this a shot and let ya'll know how it goes.

hippie: how did you go about making sure the coffee was sterile?

~JSlice~


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2283398 - 01/29/04 06:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

amyloid said:
has anyone tried tea yet?



not to my knowledge,
but since it too contains caffeine
it might be well worth giving it a try.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: angryjslice]
    #2283453 - 01/29/04 07:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

angryjslice said:
id be worried about the caffiene somehow ending up in the mushrooms at the end. caffiene can really spin a trip and give it some intensity that is very unnecesary. although, if its just a wash on the substrate...it might not absorb any at all. ill give this a shot and let ya'll know how it goes.

hippie: how did you go about making sure the coffee was sterile?

~JSlice~




more from rodger-
Just dump your leftover coffee into the water you soak your grains in. About 50/50 coffee/water is a good strength
the coffee was brewed normally,
and wasn't really sterile,
more like pasturized.
of course the grain was then PC'd.
i wouldn't be overly concerned about
getting any significant amounts of caffeine
by eating shrooms from this tek.
you'd have to eat a whole lot of shrooms
to get any effect even if did manage to get thru.


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OfflineDefendentOfHate
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283519 - 01/29/04 07:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

This project looks interesting, I think with my next batch I shall try this!!!


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: DefendentOfHate]
    #2283611 - 01/29/04 08:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

it proly bears mentioning that the quarts seen above pinning at 26 days were exposed to light from very early on.


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OfflineDefendentOfHate
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283787 - 01/29/04 08:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Have you tried casing these yet?


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2283818 - 01/29/04 09:06 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Very interesting.


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Offlinedistortion
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MrMaddHatter]
    #2284199 - 01/29/04 10:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If it IS the caffeine in the coffee that increases growth then couldnt you just grind up some caffeine pills and dissolve it in your water that you soak grains in?


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Offlineu4ia
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2284219 - 01/29/04 11:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I was just about to prep up some WBS jars.

Probably make about 8 of them or so, so I'll do two strains (both known to be good), with two jars of each going to coffee soak, and the other two going to the plain ol tap water soak.

I will probably have these innoc'd by Saturday if not sooner, I'll let you know.

Hippie, do they just seem more prominent to fruit/pin, or does colonization happen faster as well?


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: distortion]
    #2284301 - 01/29/04 11:30 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

distortion said:
If it IS the caffeine in the coffee that increases growth then couldnt you just grind up some caffeine pills and dissolve it in your water that you soak grains in?



we're currently testing that theory,
early results indicate that it may well be true
that it is the caffeine
but more tests are needed


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Offlinejarhead
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2284731 - 01/30/04 01:54 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

interesting
here's an article on "Growing oyster mushrooms on spent coffee grains" at :
http://www.shiitake.de/eng/an_intro/an_kaffee/hauptteil_an_kaffee.html
the tek seems to be spreading like mycelia :smile:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: TheProfessor]
    #2286391 - 01/30/04 02:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheProfessor said:
Has anyone ingested these? Wheres the trip report...



yes,
fruitbodies were perfectly normal in every way.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: DefendentOfHate]
    #2286395 - 01/30/04 03:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DefendentOfHate said:
Have you tried casing these yet?




yes,
invitro growing
was NOT rodger's intent,
he was just making jars of grain to case.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: u4ia]
    #2286397 - 01/30/04 03:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie, do they just seem more prominent to fruit/pin, or does colonization happen faster as well?




both.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2286558 - 01/30/04 05:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

further explanation from rodger-
how it all started. Trying to develop a way to get casings to pin sooner. However, when the jars started fruiting so quickly, the experiments took on a life of their own, and now 'quart jar invitro' is an official project. If someone were seriously interested in doing invitro like this as their modus operandi, they'd be advised to get wide mouth jars, for ease of harvest. The yield from some of these jars has actually been equal to or better than the yield from casing the same amount of grain, and the harvest comes sooner, with much less work, no grow chamber, and less risk of contamination.


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InvisibleMESCALATO
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2286579 - 01/30/04 05:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

has it been tried with any wood lovers?
thinking of trying it with some ps. eucalypta
possibly an invitro grow with the eucalypta?


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MESCALATO]
    #2286672 - 01/30/04 06:28 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MESCALATO said:
has it been tried with any wood lovers?
thinking of trying it with some ps. eucalypta
possibly an invitro grow with the eucalypta?



you'll be the first.


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InvisibleMESCALATO
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2286771 - 01/30/04 07:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

on it :laugh:


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OfflineVisigoth
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MESCALATO]
    #2288049 - 01/31/04 04:56 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

That is nutts!!! Haha, it appears as though the caffeine affects the mycelium much like it does humans: Feelings of anciness, jittery, and overall feeling of needing to get up and do something. In this case, it was pin like mad much earlier than expected. The poor caffeine-saturated mycelia just couldn't stand it anymore!!! hehehehe!!!


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2288335 - 01/31/04 06:25 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Tea has significantly less caffeine in than strong coffee though so I'm not sure what the point of using tea would be. Coffee would probably have a modicum of nutritional value.

I was skeptical caffeine could effect it but seems to me like the results speak for themselves.

Looks like I'll have to put a brew on then.

Though if they pin so much invitro so fast, I hope its not too fast.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2288427 - 01/31/04 06:53 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

count me in on this project! I put 1/2 cup of spent coffee grinds with water into my ~20lb bag of rabbit manure and mixed well. I think im going to put one more load and that will be it. I then took 1/2 cup of whole dry coffee beans and started to soak them in hot water. Im going to put them in the manure mix also.

I also watered down some old coffee and boiled it, allowed it to cool then boiled again 15 min later. Then i poured 1/4 cup of the still hot mixture into a 3/4 quart WBS that was overdried from over microwaving. I allowed it to cool then innoculated with some florida cube.


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2288502 - 01/31/04 07:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I am definitely testing this as well. I will make some jars using coffee beans, and some using WBS and treated with ground up caffine pills, and some regular WBS.


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2288619 - 01/31/04 08:37 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

any experiments with controls being done? id like to see a comparison, it really puts things into perspective.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2288658 - 01/31/04 08:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

any idea so far as if its just the caffeine? cuz i have a bunch of caffeine pills chillin around the house... VERY interesting work though guys!


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InvisibleTHEBOSS
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2288664 - 01/31/04 09:02 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

my foaf is doing 3 half pint jars with the Hawaiian strain. He says he'll keep a log and have pictures when hes done.

1) Just Rye
2) Rye w/.5 grams instant coffee
3) Rye w/1.5 grams " "

*The coffee was added to the jars right before PC'ing

What do you think?


THE BOSS


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Edited by THEBOSS (02/04/04 02:22 AM)


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2288672 - 01/31/04 09:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

was it liquid coffee boss? and ive never done rye, but might that not mess up the water content?


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InvisibleTHEBOSS
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Yarry]
    #2288687 - 01/31/04 09:13 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

no, it was instant coffee grounds. Rye has seemed to work for my friend. What do you mean when you say it might mess up the water content?


THE BOSS


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2288694 - 01/31/04 09:15 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i was jus thinkin it might soak up some water. im probably wrong, but jus something to watch for. maybe when you innoc make some really light syringes and shoot alot in, that way theres more water?? just an idea


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InvisibleTHEBOSS
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Yarry]
    #2288723 - 01/31/04 09:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

its was only .5 and 1.5 grams, it didnt make a difference in water content.


THE BOSS


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2289144 - 01/31/04 02:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well, one way or another we will know for sure.

Remember to post your results in the grow log forum!


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2289211 - 01/31/04 03:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

amyloid said:
any experiments with controls being done? id like to see a comparison, it really puts things into perspective.




yeah but who wants to look at shots of perfectly normal rye quarts ?
lots more info will be coming in over the next several weeks.
until then i just want to remind everyone that this is still very experimental, not a proved TEK yet
so only risk what you can afford to lose.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2289212 - 01/31/04 03:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THEBOSS said:
my foaf is doing 3 half pint jars with the Hawaiian strain. He says he'll keep a log and have pictures when hes done.

1) Just Rye
2) Rye w/.5 grams instant coffee
3) Rye w/1.5 grams " "

*The coffee was added to the jars right be PC'ing

What do you think?


THE BOSS



interesting experiment


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/31/04 06:11 PM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2289220 - 01/31/04 03:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

utopianglory said:

Though if they pin so much invitro so fast, I hope its not too fast.




keeping them in the dark might help delay pinning if that's a concern.
tea is , as you say, weaker than coffee.
BUT since rodger is using diluted coffee [50% normal strength] then pure tea may well work,
worth a few tests to find out, imho.


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3] * 1
    #2289225 - 01/31/04 04:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

?

Controls are absolutely necessary to gauge all things in relative terms. This means the same syringe, the same grain etc If you want to prove this tek to have some extra quality about it I would assume that you would want controls on every growers test.


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2289233 - 01/31/04 04:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Caffeine Content Chart

Most useful information:

Coffee, brewed 8 ounces 135

Coffee, instant 8 ounces 95

Tea, leaf or bag 8 ounces 50


Edited by utopianglory (01/31/04 04:13 PM)


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2289236 - 01/31/04 04:14 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Another thing is, that I have never found tea to be anywhere near as strong as coffee, even if I drank 10 cups (which I have today, atleast) compared to one cup of strong coffee. Caffeine wise this is.

Sorry to post whore here


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory] * 1
    #2289326 - 01/31/04 06:14 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, it'd be great if everybody used isolated strains too but we must work with what's available, hobby growers are not scientists, really, but if enough people do enough experiments then i think we'll be able to draw valid conclusions eventually.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2289333 - 01/31/04 06:18 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

utopianglory said:
Caffeine Content Chart

Most useful information:

Coffee, brewed 8 ounces 135

Coffee, instant 8 ounces 95

Tea, leaf or bag 8 ounces 50





given those figures,
and assuming that
caffeine IS the key factor,
and considering rodger used dilute coffee [50%]
then perhaps one would want to
use full strength tea [undiluted]
that would give rough equivalency in caffeine.
of course there are many other complex chemicals
present in both tea and coffee,
so effects may vary considerably.


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289424 - 01/31/04 07:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think the most pressing experiment is using pure caffine, not coffee. As you said earlier, there are too many chemicals other than caffine in coffee to draw valid conclusions.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2289449 - 01/31/04 08:14 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rohypnol said:
I think the most pressing experiment is using pure caffine, not coffee. As you said earlier, there are too many chemicals other than caffine in coffee to draw valid conclusions.



and yet,
it is with coffee
that we have the most conclusive evidence to date,
we're not even sure if it is indeed the caffeine
and not one of the other chemicals to which you alluded .


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289459 - 01/31/04 08:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

My buddy figures that it would give him, a good idea if coffee works at all and if more is better. He doesnt have a digital camera or internet acsess so he said he would mail me pics and a log when hes done. This should give him an good idea for the next experiment too.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289559 - 01/31/04 09:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
Quote:

amyloid said:
any experiments with controls being done? id like to see a comparison, it really puts things into perspective.




yeah but who wants to look a shots of perfectly normal rye quarts ?
lots more info will be coming in over the next several weeks.
until then i just want to remind everyone that this is still very experimental, not a proved TEK yet
so only risk what you can afford to lose.




I agree with amyloid.. While those images are quite impressive, controls give you a solid indication of just how much difference the variation makes. 6 Controls and 6 Experimental jars definatly give stronger results than just the experimental jars alone.

Imo.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2289585 - 01/31/04 09:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yes, that's a good point.
rodger didn't bother posting pix of normal jars of rye at 26 days.
but most of us know what a 26 day old jar of colonized rye looks like from prior experience.
if not, there are plenty of pix of such both here and at mycotopia.
it's pretty obvious to the experienced eye that rodger's jars are quite unusual,
that's a truly massive pinset for uncased invitro rye.
esp. at only 26 days.
have you ever seen anything like it ?
don't think i have either.
sure,
there are, admittedly, imperfections in our methodology.
we aren't really scientists,
we just play ones on the internet.
but fear not,
several experiments with controls
are ongoing,
so soon you'll have it your way.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289625 - 01/31/04 09:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

just to re-fresh your memories
or for those who might have missed it,
this is some of rodger's previous work.

from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/81178.html?1072053069

i think the man pretty much knows what he's doing.
else i wouldn't be going up front with his results.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289681 - 01/31/04 10:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

some more of rodger's
'credentials', if you will.
first,
the hemp burrito

from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/30782.html?1061830440
next, a ball of hemp twine.

from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/67534.html?1071977141
so i hope you can see why
i'm taking his coffee results
seriously.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2289696 - 01/31/04 10:22 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

one last 'proof'
of rodger's expertise.
Here's a quarter pound of white widow beginning to fruit.

from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/58585.html?1069207203


and did i mention that rodger's the guy who started the Straw logs that have become so popular ?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...ev=#Post1534271
now, i know none of these last pix of rodger's prove anything
regarding coffee or caffeine.
but they do bolster rodger's credibility
in my mind.
that's my point in posting them.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2290006 - 02/01/04 01:25 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

That sounds like a good experiment Rohypnol! I think having WBS hydrated with coffee would be a bettter comparison. Coffee beans having a diffrent structure and everything might alone effect growth.

Also having a brewed grinds vs new hydrated grinds would be a good test. I bet allot of the nutes go into the coffee when it's brewed. Have at least 2 of each for a more controled experiment.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2290580 - 02/01/04 05:19 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What a waste of a QP of WW! It better have been seded or something. I dont like that experiment :frown:


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2290678 - 02/01/04 06:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't call anyone who wastes a qp of dank bud an expert on aything...unless he's an expert on how to waste pot.


SM


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2290886 - 02/01/04 08:34 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think its both hilarious and very interesting/innovative. You should carefully consider the relation between his shroom-growing expertise and his ability to spend half a QP on something like this before calling it a waste.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2290947 - 02/01/04 09:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

^^^ahh good call mate! I wonder what the shrooms tasted like? Still I don't see qp's of expensive MJ replacing WBS anytime soon!


SM


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Edited by simplemachine (02/01/04 11:45 AM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: simplemachine]
    #2290991 - 02/01/04 10:18 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Any news on whether or not crushed up caffeine pills mixed in water would work?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Nickster_154371]
    #2291248 - 02/01/04 02:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

still too soon to say for sure.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: simplemachine]
    #2291279 - 02/01/04 03:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

simplemachine said:
I wouldn't call anyone who wastes a qp of dank bud an expert on aything...unless he's an expert on how to waste pot.


SM




it's not a 'waste' if one learns something.
rodger was, as you can easily see, very
interested in hemp as a substrate,
hence the pix you see.
and if one knows how to grow pot,
then it's cheap and plentiful.
no big deal.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2291359 - 02/01/04 05:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:

Also having a brewed grinds vs new hydrated grinds would be a good test. I bet allot of the nutes go into the coffee when it's brewed. Have at least 2 of each for a more controled experiment.




the hydrated grinds will not pin...im many cases it wont colonize, coffee doesnt retain enough water to allow colonization, I did this a year ago with a mix of coffee/WBS and with straight coffee...both were unbrewed grounds, the WBS mix colonized completely and unless you know how to tell whats a contaminant in coffee you'll play hell trying to recognize colonization.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: simplemachine]
    #2291368 - 02/01/04 05:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

simplemachine said:
I wouldn't call anyone who wastes a qp of dank bud an expert on aything...unless he's an expert on how to waste pot.





Rodger is not what I would call an expert either but I would rank him in the top 10 of people that are willing to experiment with the unusual, roger has proven that if mycelium wishes to grow it will....his experiment with pot has proven that the oils and resins were not enough to stop growth, the bible experiment had aided in proving that animal tissue is not always going to be a source of contamination and that cubensis will fruit from it.

Rodger has contributed a great deal to the comunity, dont look at the pictures and guess...analize what you see and compare it to what you have learned to be fact...now, was it a fact or has it been proven wrong.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2291804 - 02/01/04 10:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

3 out of 6 half pints dunked in 50/50 coffee/water, there in the fridge for a 12 hour cold shock, then will be birthed as cakes. ill put up pictures when i get some pins.

the race is on

~JSlice~


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: angryjslice]
    #2292183 - 02/02/04 02:17 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I bet 25/25 verm coir would do the trick with the hydrated unbrewed grinds.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2292296 - 02/02/04 03:16 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Wouldn't it make more sense to incorporate the coffee into the casing mix? Seeing as it has little nutritional value, and the timing would be better. It seems like a whole bunch of people on this thread will be fruiting invitro. btw,, I'm gonna give this a go as well.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ddaedalus]
    #2292342 - 02/02/04 03:38 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the problem with using liquid coffee in a casing is that mold will quickly grow on coffee, ever let a cup/pot sit a few days ?
just hydrating the grain in diluted coffee then PCing is much less risky.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2292392 - 02/02/04 04:07 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Point taken. I'm still gonna try it this way since I have some jars I can afford to write off. I'll try it using the pills as well, which would make those problems moot anyways. Also thanks for starting this thread.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ddaedalus]
    #2292466 - 02/02/04 04:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The guys on the other forum seem to think that coffee has no special effects besides being organically rich. It just boosts up your potency if you use it to hydrate vs using straight water which dilutes the medium. So basically its a "tea" fertilizer. I'm sure it would help allot to get an extra flush or yield more if used to dunk or re-hydrate.

One of the first posts i had was if you can use sterilized or pasteurized manure tea to dunk or re-hydrate your medium. Everyone just told me that contams would be bad. After considering how well the coffee works. I think i will give my rabbit manure tea a try after i get one or two flushes.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer] * 1
    #2292493 - 02/02/04 04:53 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The guys on the other forum seem to think that coffee has no special effects besides being organically rich.



lol
what they 'think'
cannot carry more weight
than rodger's pictures.
far too many folks out there
'thinking' they know the answers
to questions they've never asked.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2292501 - 02/02/04 04:55 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

rodger was the one saying it i beleive.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2292510 - 02/02/04 04:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

not any more,
if it was rodger,
which i kinda doubt.
show me where he said that, plz.
proly was some time ago,
before he drew different conclusions.
it's not just extra nutes causing the jars to pin so fast.
if that were true we'd see similar in other instances,
with, for example, more nutritious substrates.
yet that's not the case.
there's something more to these results
than can easily be explained by just
extra food value.
note pskov's experiment,
which just used caffeine, no coffee
so therefore no extra nutes.
yet= pskov said
Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 02:37 am:
My friend made some caffine water from a 200mg caffine pill and 100cc(ish) of HOT water. most of it didn't disolve, but the color and the caffine did (pretty sure). he then dunked two PF cakes(post first flush) in normal water, and two in normal water + 17cc of the caffine water (couldn't use more or he would have been using sludge from the pills, eww). it's now 5-6 days later (i think) and both sets of jars have pins. However, the Caffine jars have more, by a substantian margine, and they are larger. They are in identical substrates at the same heat/light/etc. Z strain from multi-spores.

His conclusion so far from this is that the caffine is stimulating pinning


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2292813 - 02/02/04 07:48 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Soaking WBS in 50/50 coffee water tonight. Will load and PC tommorrow. Innoculate in a day or two. Several different strains.


Edited by CultyVader (02/02/04 07:51 AM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: CultyVader]
    #2293450 - 02/02/04 03:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

a report just in.
Quote:

Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 01:01 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just had to try the diluted coffee
water and do some testing myself
so I made up 12 pints WBS using the
DethHead's Wbs tek and used 2/3cup
WBS with 1/3cup 50% diluted coffee
and on 1/24/04 I shot each of them
up with 5cc multispore EQ syringe
and kept them in the incubator in the
dark and today 2/2/04 the 12 pints are
about 90% colonized in 10 day which is
about 10 to 14 day ahead of my straight
DethHead's WBS tek with distilled water.



-Toeup


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2293475 - 02/02/04 03:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
it's not a 'waste' if one learns something.
rodger was, as you can easily see, very
interested in hemp as a substrate,
hence the pix you see.
and if one knows how to grow pot,
then it's cheap and plentiful.
no big deal.



it still had resin heads attached! he at least could have shook them off. waste hemp as a substrate maybe, but not good bud.
cheap and plentiful? who is honestly going to grow good weed at a high risk with the intention of growing mushrooms on it, when you can buy grains for next to nothing?

i like the other experiments but that is foolish he could have at least only used an oz


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: blackout]
    #2293479 - 02/02/04 03:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i guess you've just never been in rodger's shoes.
the view's a bit different from over there.
hell i figure it was his weed, his experiment.
so who am i to judge ?
or you.
maybe it was a bit insane,
but sometimes
a little insanity
can be fun.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2293499 - 02/02/04 04:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Would putting coffee grounds in my compost like 25% coffee grounds then pasturize it will this have the same benifits or are the coffee grounds in my compost/substrate will be bad. Is only the coffee water good or will the grounds be benaficial allso. And since I would be pastureizing it, it would be using coffee cause the pasturization is like brewing a cup of joe but the grounds will remain in the compost/substrate. What do you think?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2293510 - 02/02/04 04:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

rodger seems to like using the grounds in his casings too.
Quote:

Coffee grinds rock, and the microorganisms seem to really encourage massive flushes. But, as hip said, they're too acidic. Double up on the lime if you use them, and what I do is sprinkle a bit of lime right on the surface as well. Yes, just cool them down and use. If you're going to do a casing, use the grinds from THAT mornings coffee. The hydrated lime is the best, as it's instantly acting, water soluable, and low in magnesium. Use about 10% as much as you'd use of limestone. A Tablespoon or two is usually enough for a breadpan sized casing. Then, just use a salt shaker to sprinkle a small amount on the surface. That's just to make it harder for the contam spores that land later to germinate. The mushies will push right up through it.



from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/2/27935.html?1055903218

more from rodger on how he's preps his-
Quote:

light from the beginning, and no rinse after hydration. First, you have to separate the chaff from the grain. Do that before you hydrate. Fill your pot with the grain, then wash it very well under the faucet. Fill up the pot with water, swirl it around to stir up the loose 'dust' then drain out. Do this five or six times until the water drains clear.After rinsing, and before boiling, is when you soak in the diluted coffee. Then boil for five minutes, or longer if the grain isn't hydrated yet. You'll tell if it's ready by the size of the kernals. They should be double the original size. After boiling, pour into collanders to drain/evaporate all excess moisture. Swirl them around in the collander to allow moisture to 'steam off' the surface of the grain. After 20 minutes or so of draining/drying, load into jars, then PC. For rye grain after a soak/boil, I use 2 hours, twenty-two minutes at 15PSI.




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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2294925 - 02/03/04 02:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Two hours twenty two minutes? I cooked some WBS for 75 and it looked burnt... Used the same process to hydrate - let soak 12 hours then low boil till some start to burst.

Prof


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: TheProfessor]
    #2295004 - 02/03/04 03:14 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

rodger's using rye, not wbs so you may need to alter the time to suit the media.
a report just in-
Quote:

Fungivore (Factory651)
Member
Username: Factory651


Posted on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 01:03 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I finally noc'd my first caffeinated substrate jars a few days ago. Unprecedented growth! I can't believe I'd never heard of this before coming to this distinguished community. As far as I'm concerned, caffeinating the substrate should be as standard in the grow process as pressure cooking.




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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2295058 - 02/03/04 03:45 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm thinking of using straight coffee to moisten some vermiculite for use in a rez-effect casing.. I don't trust adding anything with nuts to the casing layer, and have no lime to buffer the ph, so I think this is a safe way to see how coffee affects my pinsets. I'm going to be doing two casings:

Control:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of hydrated verm to substrate

Experiment:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of coffee hydrated verm to substrate

If there is anything about this you think I should change, speak up.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2295413 - 02/03/04 05:19 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

one more tray done with just caffeinated water would be good.
ever tried perlite instead of verm in that rez effect method ?
might be another interesting experiment there.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2295925 - 02/03/04 08:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not much of a caffeine guy,

Where would be a good place to start, I didn?t see anyone giving any specific ratio of pure caffeine to grain. Are Caff pills even ?pure??


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #2296601 - 02/03/04 04:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i'd start, if i were using caffeine extract,
with about 50-75 mg in a cup of water.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2296799 - 02/03/04 05:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I don't really follow a specific tek for grains. I just submerge it and let it soak up as much as it wants. But I guess to get the same results I would still follow that procedure. Any estimate on how much that is per kilogram of grain?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #2296829 - 02/03/04 05:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the caffeine would be proportional to the water used,
not the grain.
so put the grain in the pot,
but measure how much water you add,
so you can get the ratio to about 50-75 mg per
cup of water used.
that way no matter how much gets absorbed
the ratio/concentration should be about right.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2297559 - 02/03/04 11:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

im eager to see what happens with the project i just started. Basic PF Jars, but with WBS flour instead of BRF, and 1/4 cup water subbed out for 1/4 cup coffee. should be interestin


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2297631 - 02/03/04 11:20 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
ever tried perlite instead of verm in that  rez effect method ?
might be another interesting experiment there.




I have. It worked good. :thumbup:


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2297633 - 02/03/04 11:20 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

has anyone established a limit to the benefits of coffee? is more better in this circumstance. btw.. im still interested in seeing side by side comparisons of a clone grown on a control and a coffee supplemented jar.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2297703 - 02/03/04 11:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yeah is there such a thing as too much caf where it starts to have a negative effect or is more like trying to stuff as much caffeine as you can into your grains?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Yarry]
    #2298259 - 02/04/04 02:00 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

we simply don't know, yet.
apparently pure coffee was too strong,
but we aren't sure if that was the ph,
other chemicals, or what.
these are experimental questions that you are asking,
we won't know until the experiments are performed.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2298342 - 02/04/04 02:28 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THEBOSS said:
my foaf is doing 3 half pint jars with the Hawaiian strain. He says he'll keep a log and have pictures when hes done.

1) Just Rye
2) Rye w/.5 grams instant coffee
3) Rye w/1.5 grams " "

*The coffee was added to the jars right before PC'ing

What do you think?


THE BOSS






My buddy just told me that the one with just rye is the only one showing signs right now. This could be for a long list of reasons, like the fact this is only his second grow and the PH was never check or balanced. He says he'll keep me posted so we'll see.


THE BOSS


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2298828 - 02/04/04 06:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i'd suggest first duplication rodger's method,
i.e. use fresh brewed coffee watered down 50%
to soak the grain.
there was no coffee in rodger's jars
after he drained, just what the grain
absorbed.
which would be a fairly small amount
in a half pint.
i'd guess yours are a bit too strong.


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Anonymous

Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2298880 - 02/04/04 06:47 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you dont need a ph balencer when you soak in coffee juice? or do you? did rodger?


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2298973 - 02/04/04 07:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Balancing the PH may reduce the effects of the coffee, after all.. we are not entirely sure what it is that causes this effect yet (or whether it is definitely better)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2299054 - 02/04/04 07:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the comment was merely for too much coffee may skew the pH too far to where mycelium will not grow.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2299312 - 02/04/04 09:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Why the hell hasn't anyone thought of trying decaf coffee?
..........

Someone. Do it. Now.


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: adoseofparn0z]
    #2299426 - 02/04/04 10:18 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Decaf is just bad, it tastes horrible.  I have bought gourmet decafs and they are still terrible.  I would not make anything suffer through a cup of that crap.  Believe me I know what you are getting at though.

ExtravagantDream: Coffee can be grown in when undiluted, so ph is unlikely to be a problem but I hear you :smile:


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2299748 - 02/04/04 03:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

utopianglory said:
Decaf is just bad, it tastes horrible.  I have bought gourmet decafs and they are still terrible.  I would not make anything suffer through a cup of that crap.  Believe me I know what you are getting at though.

ExtravagantDream: Coffee can be grown in when undiluted, so ph is unlikely to be a problem but I hear you :smile:




nobody said you had to drink it.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2299780 - 02/04/04 04:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fee said:
you dont need a ph balencer when you soak in coffee juice? or do you? did rodger?




rodger didn't ph correct the grain in the jar,
but since the coffee was soaked into the grain
i don't think the ph was too far altered.
he did however use hydrated lime to ph correct his coffee ground containing casings.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: adoseofparn0z]
    #2299781 - 02/04/04 04:04 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

adoseofparn0z said:
Why the hell hasn't anyone thought of trying decaf coffee?
..........

Someone. Do it. Now.




that's a pretty good idea,
but as i understand it
even decaf still has some caffeine
so it wouldn't really prove much.


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2300468 - 02/04/04 08:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I was just clarifying someone elses comment, I have no idea about pH properties of coffee.


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Anonymous

Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2302091 - 02/05/04 03:16 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I just started my soak of 100% coffee of WBS. Hippie3 do you think this will be to strong or what? I am gonna find out anyway and I will give the results.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2302277 - 02/05/04 04:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

what would be the problem if it was too strong?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: sensi]
    #2302316 - 02/05/04 04:14 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

PH maybe


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2302779 - 02/05/04 06:32 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What is the pH of coffee?

"soak of 100% coffee of WBS"

Did you soak the WBS in the brew? and did you just use standard coffee strength, as in you soaked the grain in a morning's cup of joe?


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #2303421 - 02/05/04 09:36 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What is the pH of coffee?




It's about 5.
See here.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2303869 - 02/05/04 03:06 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fee said:
I just started my soak of 100% coffee of WBS. Hippie3 do you think this will be to strong or what? I am gonna find out anyway and I will give the results.




i'm pretty damn sure that
100% coffee is too strong.
but i guess you'll find out.
good luck!


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2303897 - 02/05/04 03:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

why do you think is this because of the ph thing? or just to much too much coffee? Thanks hippie3 for all you info I really enjoy your insite


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2303905 - 02/05/04 03:43 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

why
is always a hard question to answer.
the simple explanation is that
rodger tried different strengths
and has determined that a 50% dilution
works best.
now this might be because of ph,
it does seem problematic.
or it could be other [unknown] factors.
also,
what might be true for coffee,
might not hold true for pure caffeine
[assuming that caffeine is indeed the active ingredient].
surely as in most things
there is a point of diminishing returns.
that is,
more isn't always better.


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Anonymous

Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2303910 - 02/05/04 03:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

true do you think I have a chance with these bags or should i toss them and start over?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: fee]
    #2304017 - 02/05/04 05:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

if you've already inoculated,
might as well see what happens.
otherwise, i'd try it rodger's way 1st.


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ragadinks]
    #2304067 - 02/05/04 05:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Is it the same for coffee brew?


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Invisiblesci33
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #2304493 - 02/05/04 07:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think all the information posted above and rodger's experiences are great, but this is not good enough for me. I am gathering the supplies now to run a controlled experiment.

One group of jars will be the control with straight WBS, another group will have been soaked in coffee, another group soaked in tea, and another group with pure caffeine pills grinded into the mix. Also I plan on testing caffeine on sclerotia production once I get a sclerotia producing strain. Not to say that the above experiences are bad, but a control is always needed in a proper experiment. I will be using an isolate of cubensis for the experiments, multispore is too inconsistent for a controlled experiment. Lastly, if anyone is interested in Bee Pollen as a growth enhancer check the grow log forum for a post I'm updating..


--------------------
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Have:
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: sci33]
    #2305591 - 02/05/04 11:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

your experimental plan sounds solid.
of course,
large batch sizes would also go a long way towards giving credibility, 10 or 20 jars of each type.


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2306190 - 02/06/04 02:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think this is what needs to be done to get some definitive results:

1. Grain soaked in 100% coffee
2. Grain soaked in 75% coffee
3. Grain soaked in 50% coffee
4. Grain soaked in 25% coffee
5. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 100% coffee
6. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 75% coffee
7. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 50% coffee
8. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 25% coffee
9. Grain soaked in 100% decaf
10. Grain soaked in 75% decaf
11. Grain soaked in 50% decaf
12. Grain soaked in 25% decaf

After results are viewed, run the following:

1. Grain soaked in 100% coffee pH balanced to the pH of the most sucessful coffee dilution

2. Grain soaked in 100% decaf pH balanced to the pH of the most sucessful decaf dilution

3. Grain soaked in 100% caffine pH balanced to the pH of the most sucessful caffine dilution


Edited by Rohypnol (02/06/04 04:08 AM)


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Invisiblesci33
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2306319 - 02/06/04 03:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rohypnol said:
5. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 100% coffee
6. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 75% coffee
7. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 50% coffee
8. Grain soaked in caffine equivilent to 25% coffee




:thumbup:


--------------------
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: sci33]
    #2309747 - 02/07/04 03:42 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

thats a good idea with the decaf. I was thinking, it might be some of the acids in the coffe that makes the growth faster. Not the caffine.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2311051 - 02/07/04 02:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the type of grain may also be relevant.
for example,
popcorn absorbs more liquid than wbs.
could make a significant difference
in the results.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2311272 - 02/07/04 06:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I don't see how it could make a difference. The amount of liquid the grain could absorb would be equal regardless of what concentration coffee/caffine you use. It would only make a difference if you were using different types of grain in one experiment. The results should still apply proportionally when you use different grain types.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2311309 - 02/07/04 07:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

unless a certain amount is required
and the grain you've chosen can't hold that threshold amount.
a grain of rye holds more water than say a grain of millet.
now, if it turns out that a grain of rye just barely can hold enough caffeine/coffee to trigger the effect,
then a jar of wbs would not get the desired results.
to truly scientifically test rodger's results
you have to DUPLICATE his experiment,
which would mean using rye as he did.
substituting different grain introduces a whole new set of variables to test, making the experiment more complex and harder to control.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2311431 - 02/07/04 08:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think one substarte would be suffecient. I mean were not doing tests for nasa. Then we could get into optimal incubation temps for coffee soaked grains at XX concentration ect. We just need some results with one substrate at a time.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2312082 - 02/08/04 12:02 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

precisely,
and for the test to be valid,
that one grain would of necessity
be rye, as that's what rodger used.


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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2313934 - 02/08/04 06:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Ever think of trying yerba mate? Seems like a more hospitable substrate than coffee...


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2313942 - 02/08/04 07:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I personally have yet to find rye where I live and I don't want to buy it on the net right now. I believe that others may have the same problem or are just more accustomed to using wbs or corn. If this coffee experiment is to be valid across the board, then tests should be done with many substrates.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Ekstaza] * 1
    #2314136 - 02/08/04 08:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
I personally have yet to find rye where I live and I don't want to buy it on the net right now. I believe that others may have the same problem or are just more accustomed to using wbs or corn. If this coffee experiment is to be valid across the board, then tests should be done with many substrates.




i certainly agree that other substrates should be tested,
but my point is
that that's introducing a new variable.
the 1st step in the science process is to try to duplicate rodger's results.
only then can we determine if rodger's results were a fluke or if they can be duplicated.
that's just being strictly methodical.
once we actually know it works on rye just like it did for rodger, then that would be the time to test other grains.
but in the end it won't matter as this won't be real science, except in a loose definition.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2314140 - 02/08/04 08:26 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HarveyWalbanger said:
Ever think of trying yerba mate? Seems like a more hospitable substrate than coffee...



don't know much about yerba,
what's the caffeine content, if any ?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2314160 - 02/08/04 08:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

ever noticed how easy coffe molds. its coarse and i bet it could hold alot of moisture.i bet thats why it fruits so quickly.nice job guys always changing the way shrooms can be grown.you guys are true scientist:)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #2314249 - 02/08/04 08:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

umm, i think you misunderstood slightly.
we're not talking about fruiting coffee grounds.


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Offlinejarhead
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2315687 - 02/09/04 05:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

found this
"What's in Coffee Grounds? Starbucks commissioned a study in 1995 to better understand the make up of the organic matter we call coffee grounds. The following is the result of an analysis of our used coffee grounds performed by the University of Washington College of Forest Resources:

Primary Nutrients :


Nitrogen 1.45%
Phosphorus ND ug/g
Potassium 1204 ug/g

Secondary Nutrients :

Calcium 389 ug/g
Magnesium 448 ug/g
Sulfur high ug/g


Notes:

ND = indicates sample is below detection limit
ug/g = microgram / gram "

would the amounts of nutrients be the same in the coffee (the beverage) as in the coffeegrounds ?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: jarhead]
    #2316756 - 02/09/04 12:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

would the amounts of nutrients be the same in the coffee (the beverage) as in the coffeegrounds ?




I do not think so, it the nutrients are soluble most of them must have been washed out by the hot water.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ragadinks] * 1
    #2316983 - 02/09/04 04:27 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

more just in, from rodger.
more coffee-soaked rye quarts.

Quote:

These jars are fruiting before full colonization of the rye. Never saw that before .They're 9 days old since g2g...Those jars were inoculated with an invitro pinning jar, which also speeds things up.





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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3] * 1
    #2317299 - 02/09/04 07:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Glad to see everyone trying this. It's how we learn. This 'discovery' was made by accident. That is why there are no control jars. If one needs control jars, just use the ones stored in your memory as I did. I had never seen anything like this, and after repeating the tests several times, I posted the results so others could confirm them.

I returned from a weekend camping trip once to find a mold growing on the top of the coffee pot. I had long used coffee grinds as an additive to casing and compost, but the liquid coffee with mold growing so quickly set a few gears into motion.

"I've got to hydrate a few grains in that and see if it will speed colonizaton", I thought. I found not only colonization, but also pinning was greatly enhanced by the coffee.

The more folks who vary the tests and try things on their own, the more we'll learn. Everyone put ego aside, run a few tests and let us know what you find. This could be big.


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InvisibleGoldenShroom
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2317417 - 02/09/04 07:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Thank You for all you have contributed Roger!  I can't wait to confirm this new discovery for myself  :laugh:


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: GoldenShroom]
    #2317465 - 02/09/04 08:06 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah this is great. For my next set of jars im going to do WBS/RGS soaked in coffee and with spawnmate, in vitro. I'm very excited to see the results.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2317525 - 02/09/04 08:22 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I read this a couple of days ago and was only reminded of the mold I encountered recently in my stepdad's stagnant coffee pot. I thought it was pretty nasty but a myco-mind sees a mycelial catalyst. Hahah. Good job Roger, now we can all invitro without any problem.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: puzzlerok]
    #2320640 - 02/10/04 03:40 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

popcorn invitro.
texan strain.

rodger's not 100% sure if coffee was used here,
stoner.
but it seems very likely,
as normal popcorn just doesn't do this.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2320646 - 02/10/04 03:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

woow !
I have made three quarts with popcorn soaked in 50/50 coffee/water and inoculated 2 of them with Koh Samui and one with Reishi agar wedges three days ago. So far the Reishi is the fastest. Hope I will get the same results with the cubes as you in that picture :smile:


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ragadinks]
    #2321722 - 02/11/04 12:31 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i thought caffeine stunted growth. not helped it


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ragadinks]
    #2321775 - 02/11/04 04:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

anyone want to see rodger's latest project ?
Quote:

It was done in honor of the original artist who drew the image on a cave wall in Algeria 7,000 years ago.






see The Cave Bee


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2321951 - 02/11/04 05:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

my girl innoculated 6 mycobags of 1000 grams rye grass seed and 500 ml coffee (folgers - 1 tablespoon per cup), and 500 ml H20. She innoculated w/ Mex A for sclerotia production. Of course she will keep everyone posted as she has 6 other bags that were just soaked w/ water (control group).

peace all


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2323513 - 02/11/04 05:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I was just brewing some coffee to give this thing a try with some millet I have and I got to thinking about a variable that some might have overlooked. I personally like to make my coffee strong as shit and others I know make theirs where it looks like tea. This variance would certainly effect the final outcome of any project and deffinately would skew the results of a large community experiment. Perhaps some kind of standard should be established.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2323564 - 02/11/04 06:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the current standard is 50% of 'normal' brewed coffee,
according to the measurements on the pkg.
according to my can of foldger's,
that works out to 1/2 tablespoon per cup .


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Invisiblejoe_millionaire
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: jarhead]
    #2323661 - 02/11/04 07:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jarhead said:
Primary Nutrients :


Nitrogen 1.45%
Phosphorus ND ug/g
Potassium 1204 ug/g

Secondary Nutrients :

Calcium 389 ug/g
Magnesium 448 ug/g
Sulfur high ug/g


Notes:

ND = indicates sample is below detection limit
ug/g = microgram / gram "





So the question becomes, is the mycelium growing at a faster rate (if it is at all) because of the caffeine or because of the extra nutrients that coffe provides.

So once (and if) it is established that coffee (at 1/2 tablespoon per cup) speeds colonization, then the next step would be to use caffeine in a powdered form to one test group and coffee as the control.

Just a thought. But I am getting ahead of myself...


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2325962 - 02/12/04 03:33 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I dont know if its new for you , but i find this link :
A PLAN TO REGENERATE THE BY-PRODUCTS OF COFFEE BEAN CULTIVATION

--> We have chosen two species of saprophytes: the Oyster (Pleurotus Oystretus) and the King Stropharia (Rugosa Annulata ). Oyster mushrooms are recognized as capable of bioremediation of coffee waste. We have grown Oyster mushrooms successfully on coffee grounds, and experience leads us to believe that King Stropharia will grow on an extremely wide range of media . <--

Other link :

Effect of the nitrogen source on caffeine degradation by Aspergillus tamarii

--> Caffeine degradation as well as biomass production were characterized. <--


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Edited by YesItsMe (02/12/04 03:50 PM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: YesItsMe]
    #2326073 - 02/12/04 05:40 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you know,
trying some dilute coffee
or caffeine
in some agar plates
might make a great experiment.
thx for those links.


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Offlinechillywilly
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2326553 - 02/12/04 08:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Has anybody considered trying to grow on straight coffee beans yet?
I wonder if there would be a difference between roasted and green beans?


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2328270 - 02/13/04 04:52 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
you know,
trying some dilute coffee
or caffeine
in some agar plates
might make a great experiment.
thx for those links.




12 agar plates prepared.

6 PDA/ 6 PDA+Coffee

Orissa India
Puero Rico
Malabar

Will report results next saturday - going on vacation.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2329669 - 02/13/04 03:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

what concentration of coffee did you use ?


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OfflineRohypnol
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2329808 - 02/13/04 05:34 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

about 50%


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
    #2330032 - 02/13/04 06:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

50% ? as in 50% of the liquid used, ie say making up
500ml, you used 250ml of prediluted coffee?

50% seems high.


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: chillywilly]
    #2330077 - 02/13/04 06:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

That's interesting because about a year ago I read about a tek where someone innoculated halved beans and that they grew w/o contaming ever. It was a long time ago but I think I may have found it through erowid. I'll see about finding it again.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2330334 - 02/13/04 07:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

what about making PF jars with vermiculite and ground coffee?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: hevvy_psi]
    #2330457 - 02/13/04 08:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

a note on the coffee brew soak.

I like to rinse mine well afterwards, so the question is, does the coffee actually absorb through the grain shell or does it sort of just stick to the sides?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: hevvy_psi]
    #2330497 - 02/13/04 08:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

if it were me,
i'd just use 50% dilute coffee
instead of the 1/4 cup of water
normally used.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2330501 - 02/13/04 08:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

and still us the BRF?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: hevvy_psi]
    #2330630 - 02/13/04 08:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yes,
and the vermiculite too.


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Invisiblehevvy_psi
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2330650 - 02/13/04 08:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

of course :smile:

thanks :thumbup:


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2330714 - 02/13/04 09:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i didnt see anyone mentioning trying azures... im very suprised no one has tried fruiting coffee azures indoors. if i had the supplies i would!


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2331463 - 02/14/04 12:10 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

When you did the coffee experiment, you should have had 1 or 2 jars without the coffee, to compare.


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InvisibleStix Russell
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2331861 - 02/14/04 02:49 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone posted results of coffee soaked WBS? If so, I missed it, my apologies.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Stix Russell]
    #2332085 - 02/14/04 04:13 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

not yet, still too soon for results.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #2332092 - 02/14/04 04:15 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ExtravagantDream said:
a note on the coffee brew soak.

I like to rinse mine well afterwards, so the question is, does the coffee actually absorb through the grain shell or does it sort of just stick to the sides?




rodger sez not to rinse.
but i would think some
coffee does get inside the kernel,
since water does.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2332301 - 02/14/04 05:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I just made 16 half pints of verm/brf. I put 10% coffee in the water. I dont know if this will work or not. We will know soon. I have about 6-8 half pints left over. I will do some verm/brf with out the coffee for a comparison.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2333142 - 02/14/04 08:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

So perhaps just a preliminary rinse or a normal soak, rinse and then a short soak with coffee. It seems like it's the coffee residue on the grain shell that is making the difference but I could be wrong. I still have yet to conclude how well mycelium gets inside whole grain kernals anyway.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Stix Russell]
    #2333351 - 02/14/04 10:22 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I've got some parakeet mix seed that is mostly white millet That I soaked in a 50% coffee solution. I'm afraid that I didn't get the water content right but I guess time will tell. I just knocked the jars up yesterday so I won't check on them for a few days yet. I'll post results when I do.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2333736 - 02/14/04 05:06 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It's not the coffee on the surface, but what soaks in. Put your rye into a large pot. Fill with water and rinse very well. Drain and rinse again. Do this until the water pours off clean. Fill the pot with dilute coffee and let sit for 24 hours or longer. Boil five minutes, then drain into collandars. Drain and shake the collandar so the water runs out the bottom, and the steam rises off the surface. This way, after 20 minutes or so, the kernals are nearly dry on the outside, but nice and fat/wet inside. Load into jars and pc. I've found coffee has lots of heat resistant endospores, so if using quart jars, up the pc time to 2 hours or more. Don't worry about overcooking your grain. I use 2 hours, 20 minutes. If you don't pc long enough with coffee, you're bound to get stinky jars.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2333956 - 02/14/04 07:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i tried asking this in the redular grow forum, but i don't think people were on the same page...if i mad pf jars with the coffee technique, the pinning looks incredible...far more pins invitro than i have gotten with either of my other ops OUTSIDE the jars.

so my question is this: when i get beaucoup pins, shoul di go ahead birth those puppies, and let allllll those suckers mature?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2334094 - 02/14/04 08:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 04:33 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 days post coffee dunk, looks kinda impressive but I always scrape the verm off the shrooms after picking and I would have preffered fewer but bigger shrooms.





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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2335723 - 02/15/04 06:39 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

whats the word with determining if its just the caffeine or another chem?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2335852 - 02/15/04 08:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Hippie, is that a control with a normal water dunk on the left?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2336588 - 02/15/04 02:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

correct,
normal left,
coffee dunk right.
not really a 'control',
just a comparison.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2336589 - 02/15/04 02:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


whats the word with determining if its just the caffeine or another chem?



insufficient data
still to be determined


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Loki]
    #2336593 - 02/15/04 02:15 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Loki said:
50% ? as in 50% of the liquid used, ie say making up
500ml, you used 250ml of prediluted coffee?

50% seems high.




not quite,
the coffee itself was diluted with additional water until it was only 50% as concentrated as a normal brew.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2336663 - 02/15/04 04:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
Quote:

Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 04:33 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 days post coffee dunk, looks kinda impressive but I always scrape the verm off the shrooms after picking and I would have preffered fewer but bigger shrooms.








ok, for those of you that haven't clicked the link to read our parallel thread on coffee over at 'topia,
here's the other end of this experiment as it went down.
first-
Quote:

big slick (Baddaboom)
Senior Member
Username: Baddaboom

Post Number: 127
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 01:46 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I will try a coffee dunk. This particular cake was innoculated 12/5 and was fully colonized at about 1/4, it was given a dunk and up till now has only produced one tiny pin, unlike it's brother cakes who have given me some asorted flushes. I'm partly to blame cause I over stuffed the pint jars with too much substrate and had the jars trying to fruit at a temp of 78-79 deg.

Hope instant is ok. Plastic container on right filled 3/4 with water and nuked. Half a tbl spoon of coffee added. Then container closed up and set in freezer. I'll give time to cool then do a dunk, 24 hrs at room temp. I'll be dunking with pin on.





dunk underway



i'd say that's a pretty impressive flush he got,
esp. considering the rather sad history of that particular cake, which was why he was willing to risk it.
proved well worth the risk, eh ?
note also that his dunk was considerably stronger
than the 50% strength rodger recommends.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2337045 - 02/15/04 08:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Hippie that cake on the left is much smaller, while the one on the right is afull 1 pint jar. I think this is an unfair test but its still clear that coffe is better.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2337696 - 02/15/04 11:27 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you are, of course, correct.
the cake on the left is half-pint,
the right is full pint.
it's just a rough comparison,
not a direct 'control' as such.
unfortunately
he only dunked the one,
otherwise we'd have more to compare.
still, we see enough to draw a few conclusions.
the coffee dunk obviously did no harm,
and that's a mighty nice flush
by anyone's standards.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2340326 - 02/16/04 04:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jared said:
I'm thinking of using straight coffee to moisten some vermiculite for use in a rez-effect casing.. I don't trust adding anything with nuts to the casing layer, and have no lime to buffer the ph, so I think this is a safe way to see how coffee affects my pinsets. I'm going to be doing two casings:

Control:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of hydrated verm to substrate

Experiment:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of coffee hydrated verm to substrate

If there is anything about this you think I should change, speak up.




When I did the two casings, I first combined all of the substrate in one container, and crumbled it into rice sized peices, and mixed thoroughly to try and minimize the inconsistencies caused by multispore inoc.


Feb 15th: the coffee casing is saturated with pins, with roughly twice as many as the regular casing. They are about a day ahead of the non-coffee pins. So far, coffee is lookin very nice :smile: I'm just waiting to see if the abort rate is high =X.. if not, im casing with coffeesized verm all the time.


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OfflineNickster_154371
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2340608 - 02/16/04 07:34 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

If this has already been asked then i apologize, but if one were just using regular pf jars w/ brf, what would be best when casing? using straight ground up coffee, or a mix of verm and coffee. What kind of coffee is best? Also, any word on whether or not those caffeine pills would work? Thanks


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2340653 - 02/16/04 07:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Feb 15th: the coffee casing is saturated with pins, with roughly twice as many as the regular casing. They are about a day ahead of the non-coffee pins. So far, coffee is lookin very nice




pretty impressive.
can you post a pic ?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Nickster_154371]
    #2340744 - 02/16/04 08:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nickster_154371 said:
If this has already been asked then i apologize, but if one were just using regular pf jars w/ brf, what would be best when casing? using straight ground up coffee, or a mix of verm and coffee. What kind of coffee is best? Also, any word on whether or not those caffeine pills would work? Thanks



we simply don't really know the answers yet,
more experiments are needed.
if i were to use coffee grounds in a casing
though i would mix it with verm/peat/coir, etc. as grounds
won't hold much water.


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OfflineNickster_154371
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2340787 - 02/16/04 08:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

How would one go about testing if caffeine pills work? I have a bunch of of the 200mg ones and id help out anyway that i can. I just thought of this but... lets say you were dunking a casing for its 2nd or 3rd flush and you ground up a couple of those caffeine pills and let the powder dissolve in the water that you were dunking your casing in...that sound like something that might work? or has anyone else tried that yet?


Edited by Nickster_154371 (02/16/04 08:25 PM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Nickster_154371]
    #2341108 - 02/16/04 09:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lets say you were dunking a casing for its 2nd or 3rd flush and you ground up a couple of those caffeine pills and let the powder dissolve in the water that you were dunking your casing in



might work.
one 200 mg tablet should make about 3-4 cups of water


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Nickster_154371]
    #2341555 - 02/16/04 11:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I have to suggest using the rez-effect with coffee hydrated verm, insted of in the casing layer.. Just something about putting coffee in an open air moist environment, without the mycelium right there to gobble it up that bugs me :P

Hippie, my friends camera is on the fritz right now.. sry :P


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2343591 - 02/17/04 06:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you might try adding a tea made from flax seed too..I just pc'd some popcorn for 30minutes, as it was cooling i boiled about 20teaspoons of Flax Seed Meal and about the same amount of Coffee..made about 1-1/2 quarts of juice then added that to the popcorn and Pc'd for another 30minutes..STRAIN IT.my lb weight got stuck at about 5minutes left and probly is all gummed up from the grounds and flax seed meal..normaly ive always added about 1tblspoon of flax to a quart before doing final PC in jars..
some more pics on coffee would be cool..also those coffee soaked Verm casings would be nice to have a pic too...


Edited by cowshitblues (02/17/04 06:56 AM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2343696 - 02/17/04 07:18 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I volunteer to go ahead and try using crushed 200mg caffeine pills when i dunk my casing next. Its on its 3rd flush now and seems to be really weak, but hopefully some good ol' caffeine will give it a jump start haha.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2344471 - 02/17/04 11:48 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jared said:
I have to suggest using the rez-effect with coffee hydrated verm, insted of in the casing layer.. Just something about putting coffee in an open air moist environment, without the mycelium right there to gobble it up that bugs me :P

Hippie, my friends camera is on the fritz right now.. sry :P





well jared,
here's a very similar experiment but with pix.
Quote:



AstroCreep (Astrocreep)
Member
Username: Astrocreep

Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2003


Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 11:08 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Experiment grow using verm soaked in coffee
Strain: EQ

1 cup of water
1 tsp of coffee
1 tsp of dextrose
1 tsp of potatoe flakes
1 squirt of corn syrup
all of the above were put in a pot and boiled for 10 mins to disolve as much as possible

1 cup of coarse verm was added to the liquid and allowed to soak up as much as possible
excess liquid was squeezed out of the verm and 1/2 pint jars were filled and p.c'ed for 40 mins

once colonized, colonized verm was crushed and cased in coir







from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/7747/114058.html?1077010707


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2344505 - 02/17/04 12:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder how long it took to colonize?.i like that idea. got a lot of coir laying around maybe ill try it with that add some flax seed too, throw in something shakable and put it in quarts 1/2 Nute verm or coir 1/2popcorn..hmmm


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: cowshitblues]
    #2344702 - 02/17/04 04:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

go easy on the flax seeds, flax is very rich and excessive amounts in the substrate causes problems, only use a small %.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: cowshitblues]
    #2345085 - 02/17/04 06:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Astro (Astrocreep)
Intermediate Member
Username: Astrocreep

Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2003


Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 04:37 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wonder how long it took to colonize?
it took less time then a normal brf/verm jar
but growth was less dense, the cakes broke apart really easy when i crushed them up

i tried this before using 2.5 tsp of coffee, growth started out good, but then parts of the uncolonized verm became contaminated a green mold
I have heard coffee can be acidic, so maybe the pH was was off and caused a breeding grounds for contams
next time i will try one without coffee, one with 1 tsp of coffee, and one with 2.5 tsp's of coffee and some calcium carbonate to buffer the pH but still keep caffiene levels high




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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2345200 - 02/17/04 07:28 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:
Quote:

Jared said:
I have to suggest using the rez-effect with coffee hydrated verm, insted of in the casing layer.. Just something about putting coffee in an open air moist environment, without the mycelium right there to gobble it up that bugs me :P

Hippie, my friends camera is on the fritz right now.. sry :P





well jared,
here's a very similar experiment but with pix.
Quote:



AstroCreep (Astrocreep)
Member
Username: Astrocreep

Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2003


Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 11:08 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Experiment grow using verm soaked in coffee
Strain: EQ

1 cup of water
1 tsp of coffee
1 tsp of dextrose
1 tsp of potatoe flakes
1 squirt of corn syrup
all of the above were put in a pot and boiled for 10 mins to disolve as much as possible

1 cup of coarse verm was added to the liquid and allowed to soak up as much as possible
excess liquid was squeezed out of the verm and 1/2 pint jars were filled and p.c'ed for 40 mins

once colonized, colonized verm was crushed and cased in coir







from http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/7747/114058.html?1077010707





All those mushrooms came from roughly 4 tsp of material?? I must be misunderstanding this. How??


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2345234 - 02/17/04 07:38 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yah, that was one jar which had verm soaked in coffee/corn syrup/dextrose/potatoe flake water and cased in coir
the pics make it seem like alot, but it was just an avg. flush, i would diffenitly say a brf/verm cake crushed would probably have yielded more then just soaked verm
how?.... i don't really know how
but i just pulled 110 wet grams from a jar of colonized nutshells and i would assume they have less nutrients and moisture holding abilities then verm soaked in coffee/corn syrup/dextrose/potatoe flakes, but still worked fine


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2346568 - 02/18/04 01:13 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tallest mushrooms were only about 1.5" and on avg they were probably below 1"
i never weighed, but i guess one cake only yielded around 40 grams wet



so the pic makes them seem larger than real life


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2347490 - 02/18/04 05:10 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i was looking into coffee..once brewed and allowed to cool..when its reheated the caffine is gone..so im taking a guess that its not the caffine. but the soluable nutrients in from the brewed grains..

oh yeah how deep was the substrate.. im gonna make the same tea as you did, to PC my corn in, and also to nutrify my coir to mix 1/2 and 1/2 with worm casings as a spawn..well see what happens and ill get some pics when it happens


Edited by cowshitblues (02/18/04 05:13 AM)


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: cowshitblues]
    #2348788 - 02/18/04 12:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once brewed and allowed to cool..when its reheated the caffine is gone..



are you quite certain that's true ?
i have my doubts,
can you cite proof of that statement ?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2349266 - 02/18/04 05:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"once brewed and allowed to cool..when its reheated the caffine is gone..so im taking a guess that its not the caffine. "

Nope. The caffeine doesn't go away with reheating. I once spent a year in new orleans, supervising a major re-tooling at the folgers instant coffee plant. I was able to see the process for making instant coffee first hand. The regular coffee is first brewed in 'pots' that would make an 18 wheeler tanker truck look like a tonka toy. After brewing, the coffee is freeze dried. When you rehydrate the coffee, you're reheating it. Anyone who drinks instant coffee can attest, it has plenty of caffeine.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2349275 - 02/18/04 05:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Don't take the above post to indicate I believe caffeine is the catalyst for these results. I have no idea if it's the caffeine or the nutes (or whatever) in the coffee. All I know for sure is that coffee works.


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Re: The Coffee Project *DELETED* [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2351661 - 02/19/04 03:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by MeetMeInEleusis

Reason for deletion: ,



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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #2353650 - 02/19/04 01:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MeetMeInEleusis said:
Has anyone tried using coffee as an additive for liquid culture?



not yet, to my knowledge.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #2354326 - 02/19/04 07:40 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

In a week or two I'm going to make some batches of agar with different dilutions of coffee in them and some with caffeine pills mixed in.


--------------------
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #2356012 - 02/20/04 02:37 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

this guy boiled a bottle of beer and half the suggested amount of coffee. then he innoculated the beer with a multispore syringe. there was no apparent growth after 3 days.

a g2g jar of popcorn was soaked for 24hrs in water then pc'd. right after he did a g2g transfer. he then shot 2 syringes full of boiled uninnoculated beer coffee mix. after 3 days this jar is showing rhzimorphic growth. it looks fast too me, but i cant say for sure yet.

all of this guys experiments where stored @ 86f.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2356920 - 02/20/04 05:48 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

This sounds great! Perfect timing for me to read this to. I have a casing of mexicans I am just about to dunk....but now with a little something extra. I'll keep everyone updated.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: utopianglory]
    #2359202 - 02/20/04 09:01 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I tried dunking with diluted Tea on rye/verm cakes. Documented it here in mushroom cultivation forum. long story short all my cakes got lots of pins. None matured lots aborted then every single cake covered with brown slime.

search it up youll find my thread with more details if you wish


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: SoulJah2]
    #2359208 - 02/20/04 09:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Anno]
    #2359257 - 02/20/04 09:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Is'nt coffe on the acidic side of the ph scale ?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: tripndicular]
    #2359285 - 02/20/04 09:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

could you use spent coffee grounds as a casing layer ??


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: tripndicular]
    #2359694 - 02/20/04 11:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tripndicular said:
Is'nt coffe on the acidic side of the ph scale ?




not enough so to prevent mycelial growth...


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: SoulJah2]
    #2359800 - 02/20/04 11:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SoulJah2 said:
I tried dunking with diluted Tea on rye/verm cakes. Documented it here in mushroom cultivation forum. long story short all my cakes got lots of pins. None matured lots aborted then every single cake covered with brown slime.

search it up youll find my thread with more details if you wish




i read your thread,
but i see no good reason to think
you proved much of anything.
your cakes were old, already flushed.
you used tea, not coffee.
you don't mention rinsing after the dunk.
etc.
in other words, there are many potential
reasons for the cakes contam'ing.
it is interesting that you did start off with
many pins, a pity your cakes apparently died
before they could finish the job.
any time you dunk an older cake,
the risk is pretty high.
throw in a nutritious dunk
and the odds of failure go even higher.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2359931 - 02/20/04 11:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you remind me of a non-rhyming dr. suess.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid] * 1
    #2360288 - 02/21/04 01:17 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

one fish,
two fish,
red fish,
blue fish.
ABC
LSD
gummi bears are chasing me.
one is green,
one is blue,
the yellow one
just took my shoe.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2362724 - 02/21/04 01:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i soaked millet in coffee and water (3 parts coffee, 5 parts water) and plan to add verm later as per the rhizo-tek in the grow log forum. I am still waiting for responses on my other thread to tell me whether or not the tyvek having gotten wet will lead to contam as i only have 2 syringes and will have to expend it all. Please post up here or on the other thread (search my name or whatever bc ive been pressure cooking for 20 hours and dont have the energy to post a single link) so i know if it is ok to inoculate. If i can, and all goes well, i will post my results on this thread. you might want to swing by the growlog forum and check out the rhizo-millet tek to see just what im talking about. thanks.


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: crime_think]
    #2362792 - 02/21/04 03:26 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

" the tyvek having gotten wet will lead to contam "
yes, that can occur


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2363490 - 02/21/04 08:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

everyone is talking about soaking their verm...will just using 50/50 water/coffee in my jars really work?


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2363561 - 02/21/04 08:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jared said:
Quote:

Jared said:
I'm thinking of using straight coffee to moisten some vermiculite for use in a rez-effect casing.. I don't trust adding anything with nuts to the casing layer, and have no lime to buffer the ph, so I think this is a safe way to see how coffee affects my pinsets. I'm going to be doing two casings:

Control:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of hydrated verm to substrate

Experiment:
- Multispore GT
- 4 pints of substrate
- 1cm 50/50 casing
- 12"x10" cropping surface
- 25% addition of coffee hydrated verm to substrate

If there is anything about this you think I should change, speak up.




When I did the two casings, I first combined all of the substrate in one container, and crumbled it into rice sized peices, and mixed thoroughly to try and minimize the inconsistencies caused by multispore inoc.


Feb 15th: the coffee casing is saturated with pins, with roughly twice as many as the regular casing. They are about a day ahead of the non-coffee pins. So far, coffee is lookin very nice :smile: I'm just waiting to see if the abort rate is high =X.. if not, im casing with coffeesized verm all the time.




Total dry results:

Coffee: 1.55 ounces
Control: 1.1 ounces

Keep in mind this was multispore.. but so far.. I'm impressed with coffee.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Jared]
    #2364076 - 02/21/04 11:01 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

that's a pretty significant difference in yield,
i'm impressed with coffee, too.
thx for the update.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2364160 - 02/21/04 11:40 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

some agar w/coffee, w/control.
Quote:

myco domesticus (Mycophil)
Senior Member
Username: Mycophil

Post Number: 823
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 05:50 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
these are the agar results thus far...the speed of germination doesn't seem to be altered by the coffee but once germinated it looks like the coffeeagar has more enthusiastic, abundant growth






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Offlineamyloid
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2367312 - 02/22/04 06:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

just an update on my experiments.

the coffee + beer liquid, which was boiled prior to being cooled and grain innoculated is showing what i think is mycellium, ive havent seen any good pictures of mycellium in liquid so i cant really tell. there are clumps of stuff floating around and settling on the bottom, they look like the clumps of myco that are in old syringes to me, but the beer/coffee is hard to see through.

the jar of popcorn that was pc'd with just water, then had a squirt or 2 of beer+coffee, was innoculated using g2g with colonized popcorn, which had very thick and slow growing (tomentose) mycellium. 5 days later it is showing significantly faster growing mycellium which is all rhizomorphic (maybe linear too?.)

obviously not very conclusive but its still results of coffee experiments.

i can take pictures if u want to see the growth.


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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
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OfflineBLuEFroG
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: amyloid]
    #2367733 - 02/22/04 09:18 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Just to throw this in...
1) Hope you got all the alch. out of the beer
2) what would the beer do for the mycellium? All of the sugar is used up by the yeast to produce alchohol and all your doing is boiling off the product...the only thing I think would really do anything is the caffene in the beer...


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: BLuEFroG]
    #2368219 - 02/22/04 11:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the addition of the beer does make the interpretation of any results more difficult.
better to omit extra variables
while testing the coffee or caffeine itself.


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
    #2368272 - 02/22/04 11:27 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

jus thought id drop in a little line on here. the cakes that i coffee dunked and cold shocked, 2 out of the 3 cakes have only put out mutants or nothing at all. the other one appears to not be any better off than any other cakes that i did not dunk.

who knows what went wrong, but something did.

~JSlice~


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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: angryjslice]
    #2368366 - 02/22/04 11:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

more details would help us assess the relevance of your experince.
how long did you dunk ?
what concentration was the coffee ?
how old were the cakes ?
more = better when it comes to data.


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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: angryjslice]
    #2368399 - 02/23/04 12:03 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

angryjslice said:
3 out of 6 half pints dunked in 50/50 coffee/water, there in the fridge for a 12 hour cold shock, then will be birthed as cakes. ill put up pictures when i get some pins.

the race is on

~JSlice~




the cakes were the same age as all the other cakes i birthed (had been fully colonized for 3 days before birth). subjected to identical conditions, and same strain (cambo). coffee was folgers 100% columbian, brewed the morning of. water was clean tap water.


~JSlice~


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Edited by angryjslice (02/23/04 12:04 AM)


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InvisibleJared
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: angryjslice]
    #2368491 - 02/23/04 12:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I also experienced an odd mutation on my coffee casing.. several pins grew inwards.. Perfectly straight.. but in the totally wrong direction, into the substrate.. Some of them grew over an inch into it.


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