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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: adrug]
    #2166800 - 12/07/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

way to dodge all my attacks swami, i dub you hypocrite of the day, congrats.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166815 - 12/07/03 03:14 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

He proably read the article I posted and watched his little world come crashing down underneath him..
Where you living now Positronius??

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166817 - 12/07/03 03:15 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Back when? Evolution is supposed to be on-going, not something that stopped long ago.




This thread is about early human evolution.

Quote:

For instance, saying "There is ZERO evidence" is a grammatical error.
Wrong again. (Not an insult, but a fact.) Zero can be used as a noun or an adjective. Learning is fun, try it.




Wrong.  The correct answer is: "There is no evidence".  I wonder what an English professor would think!  :smirk:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Bhairabas]
    #2166819 - 12/07/03 03:16 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

in the middle of pacific, on an island i created out of scrap lumber and oil drums. I have a wireless sattelite connection. I eat sharks.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166828 - 12/07/03 03:21 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I see.. Sounds like fun.. Does anyone else live with you or are your only friends there the sharks you eat..

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166878 - 12/07/03 03:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Wrong. The correct answer is: "There is no evidence". I wonder what an English professor would think!

Webster: zero adj.
2. Having no measurable or otherwise determinable value.
Informal. Absent, inoperative, or irrelevant in specified circumstances: ?The town has... practically no opportunities for amusement, zero culture? (Robert M. Adams).


Guess it is too hard to use an on-line dictionary. I back up ALL my statements. I will wager $1000 that my usage is acceptable.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166973 - 12/07/03 04:24 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Only two false assumptions in one short statement. Not too bad.

1. Women (in general) will choose a jock over a mathematician ANY DAY of the week.

2. There is ZERO evidence that psychedelics make one smarter as evidenced by the egregious grammar, spelling, and inability to clearly express thoughts that permeate this board.




In general, I will choose intelligence over a jock or a mathematician any day of the week. But I also agree with what someone else said, that money usually motivates women more, in general, in selecting a mate, than jock status.

I think most people on message boards have bad grammar, spelling and ability to clearly express thoughts. I think it's a product of our educational system rather than psychedelics, however. Otherwise, man, there are a lot of people on drugs.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167028 - 12/07/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Nothing that you eat is known to have ANY positive affect whatsoever on your offspring



Then how come carnivores tend to be more intelligent than herbivores?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: silversoul7]
    #2167230 - 12/07/03 06:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Swami is right, your diet is obviously not going to physically affect the next generation of offspring. But information can be passed down through the generations. There is such thing as evolution of knowledge but its just using the word evolution loosely to describe what is going on. Carnivores tend to be more intelligent than herbivores because their diet promotes survival of those who are more intelligent and better adapted to hunting prey. Herbivores survive on a diet that doesn't require them to be intelligent to acquire their food, that's why most of the time, those that evolve hunting advantages won't neccessarily be naturally selected for. I think a lot of people still believe in the giraffe who slowly elongates its neck during its life to reach the leaves that are higher up on the tree....

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: bert]
    #2167489 - 12/07/03 08:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I think some people are forgetting WHY these mushrooms have hallucinogenic properties.

Magic Mushrooms have psylocybin them for the same reason Roses have thorns. It's the defense that, through evolution or otherwise, gained for it's own defense against predators. This is why some plants are poisonous, some have thorns, and of course, some have hallucinogenic properties, like DMT. Most animals in wild nature would remember eating that shroom from the distinct smell of it or whatever else, and remember "oh, shit, last time I ate that, I totally freaked out and felt sick and went psycho and it was indeed not pleasant." And they wouldn't dare touch it again.
I'm pretty sure that at least, MOST pre-civilized humans "back in the day", if they ate such a fungus, they would most likely went completely confused and sick and scared for their lives and regret ever even touching the damn thing, and of course, didnt thereafter.
Some of you people are projecting your own favoritism of eating magical mushrooms onto what you think you ancient ancestors thought of them too. Lets not forget how entirely different the vast majority of people "back in the day" thought. It's even been rumored that much of the Salem witch trials and such were in fact, fueled by a hallucinogenic mold/fungus growing on their rye bread, which made them think that certain women around them were actually doing "witchcraft", and needless to say, their beliefs were, naturally, at least somewhat mysoginistic, so of course their beliefs in conjuction with the mental distortions and hallucinations naturally targeted women as performing witchcraft, and massacred a sickening number of them. And this was only a few hundred years ago. Think about that. And these were HUMAN BEINGS, the most intelligent form of life on this planet, not mere animals who don't even know any better.
Most, if not all people back in those ancient times weren't as educated as we are today, and would've deemed even a headache as something that only can be cured by drilling holes in the head to release evil spirits and demons from within the head. And so on. So I'm fairly certain that hallucinogenic mushrooms were indeed NOT a crucial role in the evolution of ANY animals, including human beings.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Anonymous

Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2167608 - 12/07/03 10:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Do we eat mushrooms for there unpleasent effects?
As for all primitive people learning about there enviroments was crucial to ther survival. These early people when testing a new plant out to see if it was edible would not cook up a big meal for the family and hope for the best. They would feed an unknown plant or mushroom to there least favorite kid or maybe there mates mother. I dont know about the rest of you but give me your largest fresh mushroom and I will have a most pleasent time not at all frightning. And if I was an early man and I ate this thing and saw things, yes I would be scared, but curiosity killed the cat. I am sure my tales of this crazy adventure would rise lots of curiosity in my clan.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: ]
    #2167627 - 12/07/03 10:14 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AFungitobewith said:
Do we eat mushrooms for there unpleasent effects?

No, of course not, I didnt say we did, but what i'm saying is what WE know, is far more different from what the people back in ancient history knew. So of course we can eat them comfortably without much, if any, irrational fears or uneducated fears.
I dont doubt the possibility that there indeed WERE some people who found it oddly curious.
But to say an entire species of animals evolved from that, isnt a very well-thought out thesis.

But on a personal individual level....you could definitely work with that.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2167738 - 12/07/03 11:20 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Every group of people interested in weird theories and esoteric knowledge have their own ridiculous way to explain why our brain got so big and nobody can prove anything. If mushrooms made us way smarter or made our children way smarter, then why doesn't that happen anymore? Why hasn't our brain continuously grown at that pace? Why aren't mushroom-using cultures a different species?

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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167777 - 12/07/03 11:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Again, this entire issue is covered in Mckenna's book Food of the Gods. Mckenna argued that mushroom consumption allowed early man to be more successful in natural selection as well as effected his culture positively. Whether or not this is accurate or not is up to debate and research, of course - but I do suggest people check it out.



here


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Xochitl]
    #2167822 - 12/08/03 12:13 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Right, he argued that the mushroom provided people with superior hunting skills due to superior eyesight and energy boosts, so the mushroom cultures became the dominant ones, but that doesn't really cover why people would physically change and gain bigger brains through mushroom use.

Because the drug supplements their condition the mushroom users would actually be physically inferior because their bodies wouldn't be under the same pressure to evolve as those who didn't use mushrooms. I can't say Terence's theory of human evolution is that "tight" having read all his books and listened to him talk a lot, and knowing how he went about his theorizing I doubt he would defend his ideas as strongly as some people on this board sometimes do.

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167893 - 12/08/03 12:45 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is ZERO evidence



Quote:

I will wager $1000 that my usage is acceptable.




I'll take the bet.  $1000 comin my way!!  :loveeyes:


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2167907 - 12/08/03 12:53 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
Every group of people interested in weird theories and esoteric knowledge have their own ridiculous way to explain why our brain got so big and nobody can prove anything.




What do you think is the best theory so far?

Quote:

If mushrooms made us way smarter or made our children way smarter, then why doesn't that happen anymore?




I think that about 20,000 years ago human evolution reached a peak.  Maybe even 100,000... who knows for sure... I dont, I wasnt around then.  Mushrooms won't play a significant role in further human evolution.  We've already evolved brains that "use" them and that's all. 

Quote:

Why hasn't our brain continuously grown at that pace?




It requires alot of energy, a big skull, and all the muscle to hold up that head, to develop big brains.  There is give and take.  A species can't keep evolving bigger brains without the necessary resources.

Quote:

Why aren't mushroom-using cultures a different species?




They are... humans.  The other species are the lower order primates.  :wink:

my two cents

:sun:


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man = monkey + mushroom

Edited by pattern (12/08/03 01:38 AM)

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