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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Synesthetic]
    #9990960 - 03/17/09 07:13 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

OH SHIT! :whoa:

Don't want to tell you what THAT means. :lipsrsealed:


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Offlineburgatory
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Icelander]
    #9991875 - 03/17/09 09:29 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
captures that importance.

Maybe because in reality it ain't all that important. Outside your mind I mean.



I don't mean important like it's a governing force we should be aware of, or important like it's some kind of safehouse idea for our apparently neurotic death-anxious 'reality'. It's important like love is important, like feeling good is important.

There's nothing outside the mind. :wink: But you knew that. A "reality" beyond the mind would be too absurd, only suicide would be the real philosophical question, as one of the existentialists said. It would be like the whole universe incarnating as a walnut and just sitting there for eternity. It's nice to think we're being realists when we say the universe is a dog-eat-dog place and 'that's the way it is' or 'don't ask', but in my long searches for anything real the only thing that comes close to reality or finality is the "God" experience I speak of. I think any conclusion that is negative or anti-life must be inherently wrong, because this whole thing is not serious enough for such things.


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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Hubbub]
    #9992009 - 03/17/09 09:52 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

God is an absolute. This is the only reason you can experience god under high amounts of psychedelic substances because you experience absolutes. Absolute peace, absolute fear etc...

Well, okay, not absolute just NEAR absolute.

So I guess you can only nearly experience god.


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Huuuuurrrrrr!

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: The "God" Experience *DELETED* [Re: AlCapwn]
    #9993069 - 03/18/09 02:37 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Offlineburgatory
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9993267 - 03/18/09 03:58 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

^ that's a valid perspective but is NOT related to the topic - the god experience.

Delusions of grandeur and messianic delusions only begin to surface in a trip if the user behaves egotistically, dishonestly, and attempts to branch more and more positive and reinforcing ideas about his or herself in order to improve their personal social status, and to prolong and reinforce the feeling of safety. It's just overreacting, and being immature.

The god experience comes about with no input from the user whatsoever.

In response to what you posted, I think it's important we realise there's no reality to be deluded from. There is only culture, and there is nothing to say our culture as it is, is right or even close to being right about the way things are. Cultural assumptions and the skepticism it creates are the delusion(s).


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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9993928 - 03/18/09 09:28 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Yet somehow, with no external input to speak of, I managed to convince myself that I was at the center of a massive cosmic conspiracy involving Christ, aliens, the secret government, etc.




Shroomism or any of 30 members of M&P could have written this.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: burgatory]
    #9994010 - 03/18/09 09:50 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

but in my long searches for anything real the only thing that comes close to reality or finality is the "God" experience I speak of. I think any conclusion that is negative or anti-life must be inherently wrong, because this whole thing is not serious enough for such things.

This is so subjective and unsubstantiated that there is no point in trying to discuss it.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Synesthetic]
    #9997017 - 03/18/09 06:59 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:

If that were so, then there must be a neurotransmitter or a combination of neurotransmitters that trigger this feeling, and our brain has to be programmed by evolution to interpret that input as being connected to everything.




not so.

the brain did not evolve to compensate for psychedelic experiences.

Imagine if the god experience represents a saturation of meaning/significance in a conscious experience. The saturation causes discrete information loss and the significance of the whole experience becomes bundled into a single notion of one entity

this might happen naturally if someone percieves the world in a certain way, with certain self-sustaining understandings of the world that could reinforce eachother to the point of saturation.

though i am not even sure that the god experience of psychedelics can be related to the 'god' experience that people have when sober.

psychdlcs have given me empathy to the notion of god

but i dont rationalise it as god.. to me it is a state of mind whereby beauty, order, significance, becomes invoked by every angle of the world... and I think the only appropriate concept that we have today that can be described easily and is already known well by trippers, is 'God'. But I dont appeal to the notion of using existing ideas to compartmentalise totally new experiences


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9997036 - 03/18/09 07:03 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
So how did this happen? How did the delusional trap suck them in?

...







heres something I consider when I try to understand why the people with the biggest voice had to go down fanatical routes of metaphysics that they (in their right minds) couldn't possibly expect the world to take seriously.

But these people are the successful ones

and perhaps they could only gather enough passionate support to become so well known, if they spoke with utmost conviction.

So maybe if they had been totally rational and avoided going down their spiritual dogmas, they would not have gathered enough submitting, loyal fans to get a foothold of global presence


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9997560 - 03/18/09 08:28 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Further in the article we find:

Quote:

The human entorhinal cortex is located in the ventromedial portion of the temporal lobe and consists of eight subfields. It has reciprocal connections with the hippocampus and various other cortical and subcortical structures, and thus forms an integral component of the medial temporal lobe memory system.

The number of neurons of the entorhinal cortex is diminished in temporal lobe epilepsy (Du et al. 1993) and in Alzheimer's disease (Gomez Isla et al. 1996).

Epileptic seizures... of the temporal lobe, [produce] psychosensory events including taste, smell, fear, sexual pleasure sensations, and memory disturbances (Engel 1996).

In addition to the hippocampus proper, other medial temporal lobe structures are involved in TLE, such as the amygdala (Kälviäinen et al. 1997, Pitkänen et al. 1998) and the entorhinal cortex (Du et al. 1993). Cell loss is the most profound in layer III of the rostral entorhinal cortex (Du et al. 1993). In experimental studies of status epilepticus of rats, layer III of the medial portion of the entorhinal cortex is suggested to be the most vulnerable (Du et al. 1995a). Evidence is also beginning to point to the entorhinal cortex as one of the primary sites in which temporal lobe seizures propagate and reverberate (Spencer and Spencer 1994). Furthermore, the structural changes in the entorhinal cortex might propagate changes in the hippocampus.




Mikkonen, Mia. the human entorhinal cortex: Anatomic organization and its alteration in Alzheimer's disease and temporal lobe epilepsy. Series of Reports, No 50, Department of Neurology, University of Kuopio. 1999. 91 p. http://www.uku.fi/neuro/50the.htm

Also known as the "science sell" in marketing.  The key here, if one would truly attempt to convince one's audience, is to use scientific terminology to gain their trust, borrowing from the success science has in things like creating toaster ovens.

Remember, anti-perspirants have aluminum chlorhydrate so they must be better at controlling body odor.

This is the Psychedelic Information Theory (read assertion).


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Synesthetic]
    #10003688 - 03/19/09 07:38 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

This is a foolish way to look at it, though, because there's no evolutionary advantage to feel connected to everything, especially since we have to kill things to survive. It's one thing to feel connected to things you are symbiotic with (like family members), but another to feel somehow connected to a rock.




What does it matter if it has an advantage or not?  It could just be a fluke... appeared for no reason whatsoever... possibly like life, consciousness, intelligent creatures to sit on the shroomery talking about it?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: pothead_bob]
    #10058551 - 03/28/09 05:36 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

A lot of these posts are missing the point of the thread entirely, but whatever I'll roll with it.

Any perception we have, since sensation is nothing more than raw data waiting to be interpreted, is related to a series of neuron firings in the brain. Say for example that you can picture yourself sitting in a field with some girl and having a heightened sense of touch and connection because you're in love.

So, the field is say neurons 1,2,3,4 firing in order. The girl is 5,6,7,8. The feeling you remember is stored as 9,10,11,12 and so on and so forth.

So, a wayward chemical is like seratonin enough to pass through the blood-brain barrier and alter the chemistry. Neurons 9,10,11,12 are spitting out seratonin constantly, causing you to label the changes as being in love with whatever's around you even though that's not what's happening around you, nor is it what's really happening in your brain.

Now, obviously feelings of love are pre-programmed in to the human brain since it's in our evolutionary interest to feel it. Over time, you just learn how to discriminate between different combinations of sensations so you don't confuse love with the feeling after a good orgasm, for example.

So, how can someone who doesn't have the programming in the brain to label something as divine or supernatural manage to come to that conclusion?

That's what I'm trying to point out. How can someone who doesn't know what a mystical experience feels like, and even denies their existence as delusions and tricks on the brain, come to label something they just experienced that way?

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OfflineTheSeer
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Synesthetic]
    #10058609 - 03/28/09 06:14 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

If you experience being one with God then theres no discussion left about it, theres no room for doubt or even questioning what happened, the moment you & God meet is the moment that all your doubts are cleared & all questions cease.

If you have a taste of the experience (like on psychedelics) then the old doubting ways can & will come back in after the drug wears off, but if you have a full blown experience of God while sober theres no doubts or questions left about anything, as nothing can compare to it.

Interpretation comes after & should be destroyed if one wishes to remain in the experience of union with God. Even if you interpret it as 'i am experiencing God' then that interpretation has mentally wedged a gap between you & God, or its trying to solidify a fantasy connection which doesnt even exist. In the experience there is no 'me' experiencing God, just God. As soon as you say it or try to describe it, you step outof it, then people can say its just your interpretation etc... basically if you say 'im experiencing God' its a lie, as in the actual real experience of God there is no 'you' anymore, only God. A realization that all is God & 'me' is just an idea.

ANYTHING we say about it comes after the experience & is untrue, just a mental fantasy about the experience, the experience is unspeakable & best left that way, only pointers to it are helpful, not decriptions, as decriptions make people create their own fantasies of oneness, pointing just points to naked truth

Edited by TheSeer (03/28/09 06:25 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: TheSeer]
    #10058729 - 03/28/09 07:16 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Interpretation comes after & should be destroyed if one wishes to remain in the experience of union with God.

You mean to tell me there is a human on earth who can accomplish your "should". Could you give an example please?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTheSeer
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Icelander]
    #10058758 - 03/28/09 07:28 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Anyone that has attained Buddhahood

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: TheSeer]
    #10058760 - 03/28/09 07:30 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

:rofl2: And who is that?  Give an example of a living person?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: TheSeer]
    #10058808 - 03/28/09 07:58 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Where is Buddahood?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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OfflineTheSeer
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Trepiodos]
    #10059320 - 03/28/09 10:26 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Exampe of a living person?
Me for starters!

Adyashanti, Gangaji, Mooji, those are heard of teachers but there are thousands of unspoken Buddhas all over the world

Saying its impossible is pretty much admitting defeat before even being open to the possibility of becoming a Buddha yourself

I know for a fact that its totally possible in human existence to become a Buddha, its part of human existence, just cause in the west we're raised to be led away from Buddhahood due to greed doen't make it impossible, it just means you have to overcome greed

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: TheSeer]
    #10059370 - 03/28/09 10:41 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

I'm a buddha too. Swami is a buddha, Poid is a buddha, man it's just buddha's all the way down.

I mean all it takes is to say you are and them make a post on the Shroomery. Fuck man buddhahood is pretty sweet.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: The "God" Experience [Re: Synesthetic]
    #10059613 - 03/28/09 11:40 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
You know the one, the moment when you feel connected to everything around you, or in the universe, etc.




Quote:

Lakefingers said:
One of the major negative side effect of psychedelic experimentation is delusional ideation, and one of the most common pathologies associated with frequent high-dose psychedelic experimentation is persistent recurring delusions of grandeur.




Who is to say that the person feeling connected to everything is delusional, and not the person feeling separated from everything.

Quantum entanglement certainly seems to support the notion that "everything is one".

Edited by Zanthius (03/28/09 11:51 AM)

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