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Offlinerev 766
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curious about alternative poppy harvest technique
    #9986574 - 03/17/09 12:52 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

i have searched for this and found no definitive answers. i know that smoked opium is made from boiling and filtering the raw opium collected from lancing the pods. since it is water soluble it can escape the filter leaving behind plant material, and then reduced back to a thicker, more potent gum.
my question is basically how beneficial is lancing? i know that the alkaloid content decreases with every lancing, but how much more product can you get by lancing a few times than by cutting the plants down, mashing, boiling, and straining? furthermore, if this was done with enough poppies to get a decent amount, even if it takes many more poppies, wouldn't the end product be more potent? if each successive lancing produces less potent juice, it seems that using a larger amount of poppies picked whole would produce a larger amount of alkaloids in the end product.
i have never even seen an opium poppy, let alone lanced one for it's delicious magic juice, but am quite curious about this.


--------------------
praise "Bob"
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"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: rev 766]
    #9986632 - 03/17/09 01:14 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

I didn´t really understand what you want with this post.
Maybe you want rather to harvest the dried (non lanced) heads for tea/putty, because lancing them is illegal, crafting is not.


FH

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: felixhigh]
    #9986660 - 03/17/09 01:25 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

no, fresh, not dried, boiled to extract and then reduce a smokable product. because after you lance and collect gum it is boiled and strained in the same manner that i am proposing for the whole FRESH pods before smoking.


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praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: rev 766]
    #9986876 - 03/17/09 03:24 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

You can lance them and then have some weak but still very clean fresh dried pods to make tea with. Depending on the location of your garden lancing isn't that big of a deal. If smoking opium isn't that important to you, you will have stronger tea from unlanced pods for sure. You need a ton of poppies to get any appreciable amount of smokable material though. It is very labor intensive for a small return. If the experience of smoking actual opium is enough motivation its worth it.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #9986937 - 03/17/09 04:25 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

i want to know if using unlanced pods to boil down a smokable product is a good idea. i know you could make tea from it. my point is that once you lance the pods, the material you get out is boiled, filtered, then reduced back to a tar before it's smoked to get out any vegetable matter. so i'm asking how good smokable tar would be going directly from unlanced vegetable matter? not really how good it would be, it would be good, but if there would be a significant drop in amount.


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: rev 766]
    #9987390 - 03/17/09 08:56 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

using pods, whether lanced or unlanced, to extract and boil down to a tar like product is called pod putty, there are recipes here if you search for them. The recipes say it is not good to smoke, probably because of all the plant fats and oils in the end product.

if its opium for smoking you are after just lance the pods and collect the opium once it dries, that is called raw opium. i always smoke it at this stage, it works fine and tastes good.

you can dissolve this in warm water, filter it and dry it out again to get cooked opium but its not really necessary, the raw opium works grand

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #9987699 - 03/17/09 10:09 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I say do two lancings and make laudanum with the pods afterward. I had the worst time sorting out the OP :lol:

EG

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #9989265 - 03/17/09 03:12 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Laudanum? Lol, what a rare suggestion!


FH

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: felixhigh]
    #9989285 - 03/17/09 03:15 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah! Why not? It makes sense to me. Tinctures = long term storage. Thats a plus in my book.

EG

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #9989457 - 03/17/09 03:42 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Yup, but it gotta be strong. Like 1 dose = few drops. Dangerous thing. Still delicious if wisely used.


FH

Edited by felixhigh (03/17/09 03:44 PM)

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: felixhigh]
    #9989618 - 03/17/09 03:58 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

It is dangerous. With every bottle I have made, I slowly test it out with a friend. Every time, no matter if you use the same recipe every time, can fluctuate in potency to a degree.

EG

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #9995454 - 03/18/09 02:22 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Can you post/PM me the recipe you use?
I'm not a big fan of smoking and a tincture sounds grand.


--------------------
:hanky:

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #9995468 - 03/18/09 02:24 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

I'm not sure I can post it, seeing how dangerous it is. The recipe is online, so I'll find it and PM ya :wink:.

EG

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #9996649 - 03/18/09 05:45 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

I say dry and grind,  store all that powder until you have enough for a worthwhile extract.

then steep in hot water, cool in the fridge down to as near as freezing as possible.  then filter out solids and press. 

the fats and sugars mainly stay in the mush as they aren't very cold-water soluble.

then fine-filter it.

the remaining water should reduce to a hard plastic tar-like substance.

while still considered putty, I find the temperature change makes a huge difference.  you can hot-knife it well.  If you filter it fine enough, the end result it a reddish crystalline residue.

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #9996978 - 03/18/09 06:52 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

I'm very simplistic, I find just eating the fresh pods to be fine.
Food + Bonus as I like to say.


--------------------
:hanky:

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #9997004 - 03/18/09 06:57 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

but they aren't "edible"
just because you can chew something up and swallow, doesn't mean it.s useful to you.

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #9997053 - 03/18/09 07:05 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

sure, there is no nutritional value to it; but it taste better than the tea to me. Or you could just bleed them, I find the whole refining thing to be a bit excessive unless you are selling, or have a high quality personal taste.


--------------------
:hanky:

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #9997165 - 03/18/09 07:25 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

3 words...tea in ass.

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #9997221 - 03/18/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Hey, I'm not Scruffy.
Plus enema...ehh-no-mah.


--------------------
:hanky:

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #9997466 - 03/18/09 08:12 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

suit yourself, put that shit in your mouth.
mmmmmm shitty.
ooh baby, sweet shit in my mouth!
oh I love wretching at every swallow!
and to think, half of this will get destroyed by my stomach acids.
could it get any better!

ass hang ups = silly

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #10001316 - 03/19/09 01:46 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

I just can't pass the idea of moving a turkey baster into my anus, not an entertaining thought.


--------------------
:hanky:

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #10001360 - 03/19/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Try getting a prostate exam and then walking around Wal-Mart for an hour. I dripped lube out my ass the whole time. Sorry, but nothing goes in there.

EG

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #10001382 - 03/19/09 01:56 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

:albundy:


--------------------
:hanky:

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #10001454 - 03/19/09 02:04 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

:lol:

I injured my back, and the doctor insisted it was a prostate infection. Yeah, I got a new doctor. Alright, I'm done thread jacking.

EG

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: ethnoguy]
    #10004437 - 03/19/09 09:32 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

a turkey baster would be a clumsy, hilarious maneuver. first of all, you'd have to be asshole-up.  This would be a strain as you would also need access for manual insertion. you'd have to pull out between each squeeze, and maintain sphincter tension the whole time. It would be like doing yoga and shitting in your own face.

the procedure is easily done with a cheap 60-100mm syringe and some medical tubing (or aquarium tubing)  poke and squeeze, no funny contortions or mess.  just don't over-inflate.

better, faster absorption. no aftertaste.

if god didn't want us to stick bitter substances up our asses he would have given them taste buds.

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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #10006836 - 03/20/09 09:55 AM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Mitchnast is spot on with the tea/pod putty in the ass suggestion.  I'm doing this method today, in fact.  Get over the ass hangups folks, drugs in the ass are a great way to get high  (and sometimes higher) than other methods.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Offlineshroomaker
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: TODAY]
    #10006909 - 03/20/09 10:11 AM (15 years, 12 days ago)

From the time the seed pods first form (flower closed etc), what is the average amount of the time before optimal potency? I am helping someone do a school report on this.

Edited by shroomaker (03/20/09 10:12 AM)

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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: shroomaker]
    #10006986 - 03/20/09 10:27 AM (15 years, 12 days ago)

huh, what?  it is said that two weeks after the petals fall off is optimal.  there's supposed to be a light brown ring right above the bulbous part where the pod and stem come together when morphine content is highest.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: TODAY]
    #10008560 - 03/20/09 03:06 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

I´ve seen this tek online before, and I was wondering - isn´t morphine more soluble in hot water than cold water? I think if you don´t acidify your solution you will loose some goodies. As long as you acidify you have alkaloid salts which will stay dissolved in water.


FH

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: felixhigh]
    #10009566 - 03/20/09 06:14 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

it is, but it's also more than soluble enough in cold water.
You start with hot, it dissolves, along with salts, sugars and fats you don't want.  Then you cool it in the fridge or whatever, down to near freezing, BEFORE filtering out mush.  this was the stuff you DON'T want falls out of concentration and gets locked up amid the pulp and filterable solids.  The desirable opiates are still highly soluble in cold water, technically you could dissolve about a gram of morphine into a couple mls of water.
    Reducing a product that you didn't cool before filtering, you observe chunks forming, the end product has an oily, crumbly, putty consistency.

when you do cool the product first, the reduction just gets blacker and thicker, until it solidifies into the smooth, shiny tar, or if you filter it near the end of reduction, (you probably lose a bit of the morphine in the filtrate)  the remaining liquid reduces to a reddish crystalline residue.

You can hardly still refer to that as "putty"

When I speak of reduction, I mean in an oven at 60°f  any hotter and you degrade the morphine alot.  A fan on a very dry day might also work.

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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #10009580 - 03/20/09 06:17 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

off topic but, ethnoguy... AWESOME peyote grow!


--------------------

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: curious about alternative poppy harvest technique [Re: Mitchnast]
    #10009843 - 03/20/09 07:06 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Good hints man!


FH

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