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OfflineMephistophelian
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Assumption
    #9973616 - 03/14/09 10:46 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

The concept... most people don't even pay attention that their doing it. They don't even stop to think about what it means to Assume.

To make a guess, not a hypothesis...which would imply an educated well thought guess....but a guess that would lean in their favour of their particular mindset whatever it may be, including if they were more inclined to be a pessimist or an optimist, they will make the guess, then not only make that guess without a single fucking grounding fact to it, they made a goddamn desicion on it.

Yes...of course, because now not only have you made an unverified guess on a situation...you made a descion based on that lack of fact. Then your emotions follow as if you already confirmed with that person.

I could punch someone in the face, and say "I just assumed you wanted to be punched in the face by your expression". What in the fuck kind of word is that? It has absolutely no fucking use at all...and yet people insist on using it in their daily lives. Its easier to assume something that suits their mind...be it absurd or completely retarted, it suits their little dilusional dream world and there is no chance for it to get interupted because they'll make an action on it before something happens.

"I just assumed you were having such a bad night that you didn't want to talk to me, so I went off to do some cleaning"

"But I didn't say anything...I was closing my eyes and clearing my head while you were picking a movie"

"Well I figured (see that's the darling of it all...they change Assume because that's the naughty word so they change it to figured) that since you closed your eyes you didn't want to watch a movie and you wanted me to fuck off"

Like...the stretch of retarted bullshit that was all strung together by a fucking assumption. Which stretches so far as to compound upon itself into the original person being a damned demon in the situation which then leads into a spiraling fight based on a dilusional convience instead of simply confirming what they thought.

I mean, the shear volume of spiraling compounding nasties that go on in the head that has started with an assumption...which is already an accepted function in ones mind, already goes so far as to continue assuming worse and worse and worse in an endless spiral of bullshit and negativity to the point where there are explosions going off while the whole time...I'm just trying to clear my head so I don't give off bad vibes.

:banghead: Instead...of me trying to be a good guy by witholding and controling my bad energy, I become a goddamn demon by someone else assuming. Assuming the worst in me. Then I have to try to change what was going to be a decent evening from a fucking rotten day...into a now ultra-late night rage-fit. Fucking people. I could vomit I get so mad about it.


I actually forsee this sort of bullshit (alot of profanity...extremely emotional at the moment) this sort of thing fucks up my relationships, in whatever capacity they may be...it rots me that people insist on retaining their "right" to assume. They think its a fucking Right!

Makes me physically ill...which in itself is brutally unhealthy.


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Edited by Mephistophelian (03/14/09 11:07 PM)

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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9973877 - 03/14/09 11:29 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

I assume you realize you assumed a lot about other peoples assumptions just now, right?


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Assumption [Re: lukeboots]
    #9973906 - 03/14/09 11:33 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

No, I verified the particular situation I mentioned. I put her on the spot about her assuming this that and the other thing about me.

Didn't go over well.


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9973945 - 03/14/09 11:39 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

You're going to project certain qualities all the time, no matter what they may actually be. What you call assuming is also what others would call intuition. It's also called snap judgement. You have no hope of stopping people from using it. It's automatic, and it's usually helpful, unless the person is mentally oriented on the extreme edges of pessimism/optimism.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9974182 - 03/15/09 12:24 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

There will always be a limit to how much information a person takes in before making their decision about what they do/say/behave/etc. Sure sometimes maybe we might make a different decision based on obtaining more information but it's a trade off between accuracy and efficiency.

For example, can you really say that you weighed all the information available to you before you decided that people making assumptions is a bad thing? Or did you just assume that assumptions are a bad thing? If you didn't make the hugest assumption about assumptions being bad, then please let us know how you operationalised and hypothesised and tested your conclusion of assumptions being inherently bad. If your only proof of how bad assumptions are is from how you feel when people make assumptions about you, then I think you might want to revisit the validity of your claims.

I see assumptions as a time saving cognitive bias which most of the time serve people very well in letting them make good enough decisions to get by without taking up huge amounts of energy and time. It's a heuristic device which works very well but not perfectly in every situation. Usually people forgive one another for trivial mistakes derived from incorrect assumptions rather than getting all over emotional about it and jumping down each others' throats, so usually it's not that big of an issue IME.

I was wondering what you might hypothesize the longer term consequences to be of someone getting really upset or emotional each time they are witness to someone else making an assumption?


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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: Assumption [Re: lukeboots]
    #9974189 - 03/15/09 12:25 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

It can be useful, but people waaay overuse it. It's the same thing going on when people are judgmental. They assume a quality about someone. This has been pissing me off hardcore lately...and what's funny is I just got out of the shower down right livid because of people's rampant assumptions and judgments...then I see this thread! lol...

I'm pretty sure most assumptions come forth as a sort of defense. They don't want to confront someone who "seems" upset for fear they will express that anger on them...so they assume that what they think is happening is actually happening to avoid the conflict.

I think the best thing you can do if someone is assuming something about you is to stay calm, act normal....then see if they if they are acting normal; if not talk it over with them. In emotional situations you have to stick to the real topic - do not let the other person change the topic or blame it on the economy or whatever.

Ultimately...sure people will assume and the fact is we all assume...but it's up to those of us who realize is and who are tired of it to STOP IT. First stop it with yourself....then be honest with everyone.

Once you're tied up in a bad situation wrought with assumptions, it's over - pack up and go home; but don't give up. Learn from it and keep vigilant....it probably won't be the last time you encounter this.

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OfflineSacrament
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Re: Assumption [Re: fazdazzle]
    #9974220 - 03/15/09 12:33 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

its a normal human response


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Assumption [Re: fazdazzle]
    #9974264 - 03/15/09 12:44 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

as⋅sume
   /əˈsum/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-soom] Show IPA verb (used with object), -sumed, -sum⋅ing.
1. to take for granted or without proof; suppose; postulate; posit: to assume that everyone wants peace.

That be the one I'm pissed about...

Intution is intuion, judgement is judgement and hypothesis is hypothesis. Each of these are not interchangable and will never be an assumption. An assumption is exactly that...to take for granted a situation or mental state without any proof.

I didn't assume upon assumption. This is a very long thought out recorded process (being a social sciences/psychology project in fact put into a real life pissed off situation).

Its funny that a couple of you assumed that I was assuming in my rant. Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough which would lead one to want to do that...but wouldn't that also accenuate the point that assumption is a virus within the human psyche that has absolutely no use whatsoever that is widely accepted and "just ok to have". Its not ok...there is nothing useful about assumption. Not in my opinion. With the limitless power of the human mind, its easy enough to decide that if you don't damn well know, then don't make a descion on it without simple confirmation.

Quote:

fazdazzle said:
I'm pretty sure most assumptions come forth as a sort of defense. They don't want to confront someone who "seems" upset for fear they will express that anger on them...so they assume that what they think is happening is actually happening to avoid the conflict.





I agree with this but sometimes, someone will assume something that they want to believe and won't confirm it because it will break their subsconscious dillusional bubble...I think its the biggest reason why people use it in the first place. People who can see with their 3rd eye, have incredible sensory perception, social skills and the like...its not assumption, its more then that and your using a far better skill then making baseless points on hollow and unproven information.

I agree with faz in that...to stop the assumption cycle it stops with the person who sees it and encounters it. Of course...this is usually the case, but sometimes its taken so far out of context against someone like myself in this case, that I was getting things thrown at me, sworn at and spit at...on the account of a baseless assumption.

I left the house being sworn at because of the 0-90 level of rage that happened in the silence of one person assuming...and the other trying to arrange his thoughts as to not have his own bad day interfere.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9974326 - 03/15/09 01:00 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Who decides then what proof is acceptable proof and what isn't to therefore determine what is an assumption and what is not?

For example:

Person 1 sees Person 2 closing their eyes (and probably displaying other non-verbal information not available to us here) and Person 1 used that information to decide that Person 2 didn't want to watch a movie and wanted Person 1 to fuck off.

Now apparently according to the definition you supplied, this example isn't exactly an assumption because some 'proof' was used to drive the decision. But let's ignore that and say that Person 1 was definitely making an assumption as previously defined. The question is, how much of what sort of proof would have been necessary in that example for Person 1 to be making a fully informed decision with the limitless power of the human mind? When would Person 1 know that they had obtained enough proof in order not to piss off Person 2 with an assumption?


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mufungo]
    #9974516 - 03/15/09 01:43 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Alright...well definitely on the note that I am probably not defining the situation with exactly right amount of information to make it 100% simulated...I can address the point you just made.

If were talking someone is unaware of their habit to assume, thereby them thinking that what their process is Ok...then it would take an outside force to address that for them to realize the habit they have.

To an aware person they see themselves making a judgement on nothing and don't stop to "bounce the idea" off of they're 3rd eye/intuition, then they are at fault.

Getting late...losing track of thoughts here. But basically Person 2, being moi, was not pissed because of their assumption per se, it was that the assumption led to another assumption and another...to the point where there was a boiling ball of rage in the other room with a list of things I had done or not done built inside their mind all starting with an misinformed assumption (thereby affirming the proof that you were looking for, its wrong, its not proof). But if you have to question your judgement and your information on that person...then you need to confirm. Why would you make a desicion that you were unsure unless there was urgency/priority/stress that would affect that line of thought.

I just think the word Assume is being poorly used here...an assumption has no basis at all. There's no second thought on what you used as "proof". I mean...I poured syrup into my friends drink when I made his drink...he overreacts and I'd be appalled because in my mind, this was right "i assumed you wanted syrup in your drink by the way you were saying 'make me a sweet drink'". Its absurd, the way the word is. I think its actually...if its not to suit a dilusional world...then its out of pure laziness and even to the point of disrespect depending on your situation.

I can't see any legimate reason to make an assumption, following the definition I cited above when there are countless other things you can do to confirm you will not be making an ass out of yourself and the person your assuming this of in the process.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9974685 - 03/15/09 02:17 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Have you ever had someone make an assumption that had pleased you?

For example like someone doing something nice for you without asking you first if you needed or wanted it?

I like it when people assume that they should treat me nicely and respectfully etc. Can't say anyone has bounced off of me "hey do you want me to treat you nicely or should I punch you in the face?". Gladly they assume they shouldn't punch me in the face. Also, I love it when my GF assumes that I want food or drinks or a massage and she just brings does it without first asking. No sweat, love those assumptions...


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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9983539 - 03/16/09 05:22 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Mephistophelian said:
Alright...well definitely on the note that I am probably not defining the situation with exactly right amount of information to make it 100% simulated...I can address the point you just made.

If were talking someone is unaware of their habit to assume, thereby them thinking that what their process is Ok...then it would take an outside force to address that for them to realize the habit they have.

To an aware person they see themselves making a judgement on nothing and don't stop to "bounce the idea" off of they're 3rd eye/intuition, then they are at fault.

Getting late...losing track of thoughts here. But basically Person 2, being moi, was not pissed because of their assumption per se, it was that the assumption led to another assumption and another...to the point where there was a boiling ball of rage in the other room with a list of things I had done or not done built inside their mind all starting with an misinformed assumption (thereby affirming the proof that you were looking for, its wrong, its not proof). But if you have to question your judgement and your information on that person...then you need to confirm. Why would you make a desicion that you were unsure unless there was urgency/priority/stress that would affect that line of thought.

I just think the word Assume is being poorly used here...an assumption has no basis at all. There's no second thought on what you used as "proof". I mean...I poured syrup into my friends drink when I made his drink...he overreacts and I'd be appalled because in my mind, this was right "i assumed you wanted syrup in your drink by the way you were saying 'make me a sweet drink'". Its absurd, the way the word is. I think its actually...if its not to suit a dilusional world...then its out of pure laziness and even to the point of disrespect depending on your situation.

I can't see any legimate reason to make an assumption, following the definition I cited above when there are countless other things you can do to confirm you will not be making an ass out of yourself and the person your assuming this of in the process.




Man, you are thinking too much about this. 

And it won't make a bit of difference as far as how other people behave or think.

Get used to how human beings work, because you aren't going to change it by arguing the point.  Every person is full of inconsistencies, mistakes, flaws, imbalances, biases, absurdities and bad habits, and none of us are exceptions.  C'est la vie, it's not up to you.

IMO there is no bigger waste of energy than arguing how other people should act.  They have their reasons, and whether they're dumb reasons or not, you're wasting your breath stressing about it. 

What other people should be doing differently is usually a pretty useless topic, and some people spend their whole lives whining and jabbering about it, as if they're making a difference.  "Given the habits and tendencies other people seem to have, what should I be doing differently?" is the only question you ever need to ask. 

:2cents:


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Assumption [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9983817 - 03/16/09 05:59 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

:lol: well...it was more of an angry rant/reaction to what happened.

Long ago I accepted what they do and how they do it...but I was particularily pissed that evening and just ended up ranting. You can study and accept human behavior for years...but it takes longer to learn to live in harmony with it.


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Re: Assumption [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9983939 - 03/16/09 06:18 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

When people realise and accept how much they're doing it themselves, they live more harmoniously with the way the world does it. It has something to do with stones and glass houses and such...


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