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OfflineCleverName
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science ?
    #996491 - 10/27/02 11:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

heres a science question...
light is both wave and particle, we can only oberve them one way at a time.
If i had a flashlight, then turned it on, then off, why wouldnt that light move like a bullet, or a projectory of some sort, why wouldnt that chunk of light be visible, instead the light appears to fade...do you understand what im asking???


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: science ? [Re: CleverName]
    #996734 - 10/27/02 01:54 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Light travels at 300,000,000 meters per second  :smirk:

That's why you can't "see" it moving, it's just too damn fast.


Now try Einstein's famous thought-experiment: what would you see if you could fly a spaceship at the speed of light, beside a beam of light? Could you catch up to the beam of light?


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Anonymous

Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #996753 - 10/27/02 02:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Oh no we travel much faster than that, various multiples of c. Otherwise the trip here would have taken about a thousand years, now wouldn't it?


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: science ? [Re: ]
    #996768 - 10/27/02 02:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Otherwise the trip here would have taken about a thousand years, now wouldn't it?

Even at multiples of c it would take a very very long time in some cases. There are much better ways of travelling, or so the theories tell me  :wink:

Travel throught space? Ha! Lets go outside of space, much quicker.


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #996843 - 10/27/02 02:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If a pulse of light is emitted at a certain point in time at a particular point, then as time goes on it will spread out as a sphere of light whose size and position are independent of the speed of the source.
After 1 millionth of a second the light will have spread out and form a sphere with a radius of 300 meters after 2 millionths of a second it will have spread out to 600 meters; and so on. Like the way water ripples when a stone has been thrown into it, that?s why it fades.
Also you cannot measure the speed and position of a particle at the same time because of the Uncertainty principle.
It has been suggested by Max Planck that light comes only in packets called quanta, which are waves with energy proportional to their frequency.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #997092 - 10/27/02 04:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Why a sphere?

Light travels in straight lines, aside from a little gravitational bending now and then  :smirk:


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #997228 - 10/27/02 05:53 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Light travels in waves, the shorter the wave crest the closer the emitting object, and the longer the wave crest the further the object.
That?s how it?s known that the universe is expanding.
Its pretty obvious light travels in straight lines unless the density of a mass is great enough to warp the light, even so the light only seems to be bending as space-time is warped, so it actually follows a straight line.
But it's only bent do to the warping of space-time by the density of a large mass.
If light travels in straight lines away from the point of an emitting object, it would resemble a cone.
It takes light from our sun 8 minutes to reach us, and say 4 minutes to reach Mercury, that is what I mean by the ripple affect, the light from our sun is emitting waves of light that follow this ripple.
Wave one reaches Mercury in 4 minutes, and earth in 8. On Mercury the wave crest that the sun emitted would be shorter than on Earth and therefore would be more blue shifted on a Doppler chart.



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Edited by TeKn0 (10/27/02 09:08 PM)


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #997242 - 10/27/02 05:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Why a sphere?



Because all large masses of matter (i.e. A star) are round.
I'm not saying the light travels like this, I'm simply explaining how the light travels from such an object as a star to earth.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #997465 - 10/27/02 07:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I doubt you would see much of a doppler effect by looking at the sun, as the sun is neither moving towards or away from the earth, which is what causes doppler: movement.

Shorter wave crests don't mean closer light source, they indicate wavelength and frequency.


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Edited by trendal (10/27/02 07:39 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #997568 - 10/27/02 08:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

K-PAX Capital K hyphen capitals P-A-X. K-Pax is a planet. K-PAX is about a thousand light years away from here. In what you would call your constellation Lyra. You beings are eons away from light travel.


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #997624 - 10/27/02 08:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

I doubt you would see much of a doppler effect by looking at the sun, as the sun is neither moving towards or away from the earth, which is what causes doppler: movement.




You would get a Doppler affect it just won?t move in either direction on the scale, but maintain it's frequency.
In reply to:

Shorter wave crests don't mean closer light source, they indicate wavelength and frequency.



Yes, but the wavelength/frequency crests get longer the further the light has to travel, therefore an indication that longer wave crests mean further distances.
[I?m quoting from Stephen Hawkings, A Brief History Of Time]
"The Doppler shift is a property of all types of waves. When an emitter such as an ambulance siren travels towards an observer, the waves shift to a higher frequency. As it moves away from the receiver the waves shift to a lower frequency".
So you?re telling me that the light from the sun on Mercury would not have a shorter wavelength?

I am fully aware of the frequency of these waves, Gamma Rays having the shortest wavelength at about 10-15 and radio having the longest wavelength at about 10-1 to 1 meter.
I'm Interested to hear your theory.


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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #998064 - 10/27/02 10:32 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So you're telling me that the light from the sun on Mercury would not have a shorter wavelength?

Yep  :grin:

You misinterpreted that quote from Hawking there. The doppler effect is caused by moving sources, not distance. The distance the ambulance is away from you has nothing to do with the frequency of the sound heard. The velocity of the ambulance is what can change the frequency and cause the doppler shift.

A beam of light sent to the moon from earth will be the same frequency when it gets to the moon as when it left the Earth. Why? Because the moon is not moving towards or away from the earth.

When a star emits light, it emits light of a certain set of frequencies. If you are sitting in a space ship holding at a steady 100 million Km from the star you will see the same frequencies that you would if you sat 10 million Km from the star. If, however, you begin to fly towards the star the frequencies would be shifted up towards the blue end of the spectrum - a blue doppler shift. If you flew directly away from the star then the frequencies would be shifted down - a red shift. 


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #998220 - 10/27/02 11:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, you?re right.
I misinterpreted one of his illustrations, and I've been reading over.
It will only shorten or lengthen the wavelength if it?s moving away from or toward.
Okay, I get it now.
I must thank you for setting me straight.
:grin:
shit gets confusing at times. 


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #998401 - 10/27/02 11:32 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

shit gets confusing at times

Lol no shit! Physics is great for hard to grasp concepts  :smirk:


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: science ? [Re: trendal]
    #998439 - 10/27/02 11:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

LoL
Its kind of funny how we took over this thread, poor guy just wanted to know why he didn?t see a clump of light when he turns on his flashlight, and he?s gets a debate of the Doppler affect.
I sure hope you found this helpful CleverName, and I assume you may find your answer within all of this physics gibberish.

Funny shit
:tongue: 


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: science ? [Re: TeKn0]
    #999506 - 10/28/02 11:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yeah, this is great,
i wish all my posts were this active.  <------just my ego breakin in :grin:
 


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: science ? [Re: CleverName]
    #999643 - 10/28/02 12:16 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think there hard concepts to grasp at all, I guess they are for most people. I just think people have grown up learning their whole lifes that the universe consists of a bunch of yes's or no's, when in fact the universe consists of mostly maybes. And Physics just like other sciences contain models to describe the universe, which are different than the actualy universe.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: science ? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1000370 - 10/28/02 05:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Right on, Droid!!

People shouldn't think in binary :smile:


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