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Offlinegimmethatfish
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment.
    #9961421 - 03/12/09 09:43 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

So I wrote the following post tonight, then afterwards, I have an extremely depressing update.

Working with 20 rye jars; I have been following the "syringe to print" tech perfectly. Sterilization and inoculation went great, put them in a big rubbermaid TIT and set her to 86. Everything was going great, saw myc within 3 or 4 days, shook them because this was forgotten after shooting them up. All still was going well, myc growth seemed pretty constant, then at the end of my second week (after inoculation) things seemed to have come to a standstill. All 20 jars are colonizing, no contams, nothing but bright white myc. So I figure my temps are probably fucked and I start reading again...

seems that I was measuring temp from the middle of the tit (using a suction cup from the lid), so in reality the temp of the bottom surface (where the babies sleep) was actually hovering around 90.

The temperature was decreased immediately, and has been kept at 84.5 (from the bottom of the tit and in the midst of the jar pack) as I have read that 86 may be a touch high for jars as some minimal heat is created by colonization. Now jars are on day 19, still absolutely no contams, and looks to be strong healthy mic. I shook a couple jars to check on recovery, but the weird part is that after shaking what appears to be a heavily colonized jar (75%) with some nice rhizo , the jar now looks like its more like 30%. I can see myc on (or in) all the grains, nothing looks mushy, there are some nice chunks too that wouldnt break up.

Considering the legit Brazilian spores, everything seems to be going too slow.I have been great about cleanliness and parameters havent been too far gone and now Im nervous.

Many of my jars look to be just about done from the outside, but if shaken they look unfinished I am torn between shaking, risking slowed networking, or letting them keep on keepin on.

Here is what has transpired so far:

Grain soaked
pc went well
Inoculation went well
myc growth in predictable time
good colonization for 1.5 weeks, no contams
slowdown, still no contams
second week begins, temp was too high, reduced to 84.5, shook a jar
4 or 5 days from temp reduction
(today) almost week 3 and jars dont seem 100%
Some colonization return on shaken jar, still waiting on second shaker (more recent)
jars smell fine (like mushrooms), still no contams

Here are a few questions and specific worries:

1. Am I stalled out? And is there any recourse? (what now!!??)

2. Should I shake all the jars now and hope for a resounding finish? Or let the myc continue to gain strength unabated?

2. Does myc bruise at all when vigorously shaken? (a couple bluish grains in one of the two recent shakes makes me ask, all others still bright white)

3. When you break up a jar that is 100%, do the grains still look rye color, despite obvious myc on them? Or should everything be completely completely white?

4. Did I cook the moisture out of my grains by having the temp high (despite seeing continuing myc growth), making the uncolonized grain impenetrable to myc?


I would really really appreciate some help here. Thanks a lot guys, this is my first post and you have already taught me a great deal.

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Offlinepsychotropic89
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961446 - 03/12/09 09:45 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

pictures plz..


--------------------
I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to.
Jimi Hendrix


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Offlinegimmethatfish
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961461 - 03/12/09 09:47 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Here is my update fellas, and I'm bummed...

So after writing this post, I decide to do a full checkup on my jars, something that I have done regularly but tried not to over-do just as a precaution.

I open the tub and go through all my jars, everything looks great, but in a couple there seems to be some moisture between the myc and the glass. So, I shake these jars and smell for good measure; UH OH... sweet smelling, apple-esque. At this point I figure, "shake em all and check em", which I did...

And 20/20 smell like this.

How did this happen with absolutely no signs of discoloration or contam? and seemingly moisture perfect jars (at inoculation)?

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961520 - 03/12/09 09:55 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

reduce your temps more. its too high. You want no hifgher thsn 78F for grain jars and bulk substrate. Mycelium will produce some heat and once you have considerable growth, your jars will probably be alot hotter than the ambient temp around the jars.

you want your substrate to be no higher than 83F otherwise growth falls sharply above that.

Room temp is just fine. 75F, unless your area is below 70F you dont need an incubator.

You shouldnt shake after inoculation. You want the spores as close together so they can join and exchange dna. You then shake at around 30% to spread mycelium thrughougt your jar to speed colinisation and let if finish,


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961532 - 03/12/09 09:56 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

gimmethatfish said:
Here is my update fellas, and I'm bummed...

So after writing this post, I decide to do a full checkup on my jars, something that I have done regularly but tried not to over-do just as a precaution.

I open the tub and go through all my jars, everything looks great, but in a couple there seems to be some moisture between the myc and the glass. So, I shake these jars and smell for good measure; UH OH... sweet smelling, apple-esque. At this point I figure, "shake em all and check em", which I did...

And 20/20 smell like this.

How did this happen with absolutely no signs of discoloration or contam? and seemingly moisture perfect jars (at inoculation)?




sweet smell would indicate bacteria, and could well be from incubating far to high. High temps are much more favioiurable to thermophilic moulds and bacteria.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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OfflineRedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961535 - 03/12/09 09:57 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

keep them around 75 F.  You are incubating at too high of temperature.  Room temperature is perfect.


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

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OfflinebrainsOplenty
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961543 - 03/12/09 09:58 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

did you open the jars to smell em?


--------------------
FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!


LIVIN THE LIFE!!!


"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE

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Offlinegimmethatfish
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961597 - 03/12/09 10:04 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

No, I have a breather hole and an inoculation hole, covered with cut to fit air filter (doubled up, decent quality). And unfortunately I know why they smell sweet, because they are all contamed. I assume I should just ditch em at this point and start from scratch?

Pics soon

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OfflinebrainsOplenty
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961610 - 03/12/09 10:05 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

damn that sucks:thumbdown:


--------------------
FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!


LIVIN THE LIFE!!!


"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961611 - 03/12/09 10:05 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

gimmethatfish said:
No, I have a breather hole and an inoculation hole, covered with cut to fit air filter (doubled up, decent quality). And unfortunately I know why they smell sweet, because they are all contamed. I assume I should just ditch em at this point and start from scratch?

Pics soon




what kind of lid are you using. When you say you have an inoculation hole, thats self helaing??(silicon) and your filtered air hole is polyfill??Tyvekk??


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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OfflineRedDevil420
Antichrist

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961612 - 03/12/09 10:06 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

or place them at the proper temperature, they may be stalled from being overheated.  Also, if they are contaminated it is because of the bad temperature.


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

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Offlinegimmethatfish
Stranger
Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961645 - 03/12/09 10:10 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

No, I didn't make self sealing inoculation holes, but patched the filter with band-aids where the needle went through. The filter was cut-to fit air filter from Menards, which was decently rated for reduction of particles (I forget how this was measured exactly, no packaging anymore) which was then cut into rectangular strips and doubled back over to make a square which went over the lid, under the ring. I made sure not to get these wet during PC so as to *not* wick airborn contaminants into the jars. Its like poly fill, sort of.

Edited by gimmethatfish (03/12/09 10:21 PM)

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Offlinegimmethatfish
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961652 - 03/12/09 10:11 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

I can only assume that they are badly contaminated, due to the odor. Does that seem reasonable?

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OfflineRedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961736 - 03/12/09 10:26 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

if it is a strong, obvious odor.. then probably.  I would personally set them somewhere dark at room temperature for 5 days and see if they are or not after that.


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

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Offlinegimmethatfish
Stranger
Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: RedDevil420]
    #9961744 - 03/12/09 10:27 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah, will do. Just from everything I read the apple smell is a death-sentence

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OfflineRedDevil420
Antichrist

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9961762 - 03/12/09 10:30 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

shit deal man, i feel for u and the mushies :frown:


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

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Offlinegimmethatfish
Stranger
Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 17
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. *DELETED* [Re: RedDevil420]
    #9961800 - 03/12/09 10:35 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by gimmethatfish

Reason for deletion: cleanup


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Looked great, ALL WRONG. Please comment. [Re: gimmethatfish]
    #9962001 - 03/12/09 11:10 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Couple RR quotes for you.

Quote:

I have not used an 'incubation chamber' in several years. If you maintain your house at normal indoor temperatures, your projects will do just fine. There is certainly no need to incubate jars over 80F, and to do so raises contaminant risks considerably. The inside of your jars will be 3 to 4 degrees warmer than the surrounding air. If you heat a chamber up to 86, your jars will be near 90, and much more likely to contaminate. I colonize on a bookshelf in a spare bedroom, and no attempt is taken to prevent the jars from receiving normal room lighting. I then fruit in a small greenhouse type enclosure with no heat applied during the growing process. If it's deep winter and your room is a bit cold, run a small space heater to heat the entire room to 75 or so. That temperature will work just fine for colonization, as well as fruiting. There's no need to make growing any harder than it already is. Keep it simple.




Quote:

Do you know of one place in nature where cubes fruit naturally that does not have a difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures? I've read ever since 1985 that 86F is best, usually because of somebody simply repeating what they've read somewhere, then somebody repeats that, and so on and so on. Now, over 20 years later, they're still repeating it, and it's still wrong. In my grow room, the day and night temperatures fluctuate as much as 20F. When I say normal room temperature that means 72F to 78F. There is zero increase in rate of growth of cubensis above 80F, and mushroom mycelium often stalls out and bacteria is encouraged in warm anaerobic environments, such as is found in the bottom of non-vented tubs commonly used as 'incubators'.




I suggest taking the time to read this collection of RR quotes, it helped me alot when I was starting out.


--------------------
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