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Offlineniall_b73
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liquid culture question ??
    #9958026 - 03/12/09 12:25 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

ok folks,
          i am trying my hand at making my first liquid culture.
i am gonna use the method in the link below.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5238137/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

my question is:
does liquid culture have to breathe, and if so could i modify the lid in such a way that i can do so ??

my reason for this question is because i do not feel comfortable with just the foil over the lid with the hole open. i feel this would leave the culture open to contam

please tell me what you think ??


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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OfflineDarkLotus
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958037 - 03/12/09 12:28 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

I just double foil mine.. The first foil I wrap around the jar a little bit tighter then the second piece of foil. Seems to be working effectively.


--------------------
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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958085 - 03/12/09 12:34 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Without an air supply of some sort the mycelium will grow some, then stall out due to lack of oxygen.

So you've got two options.  One is to provide for filtered gas exchange, the other is to inject flame sterilized air.

I do all my lids (grain jars, lc's, etc) the same basic way:



Injection port + tyvek glued down over an air hole.

Little bit extra work, but they're re-usable and no fuss.

You can suck in air through a flame (slowly) into a clean syringe, then inject that into the LC jar and shake/swirl well.

It seemed like I needed to inject 20-30cc of air into a pint sized jar to get any significant growth and it would only last 2-3 days then stop growing again.

I did some comparisons awhile back and came to the conclusion that "sugar in the raw" was the cheapest, easiest sugar that produced good results to use in an LC. 

So I'd recommend that over honey, although I'm sure some people would disagree.  The sugar in the raw produces little to no discoloration or sediment and the mycelium grows well in it :-D

Plus it's already premeasured for you, 1 packet of sugar per 1 cup of water.


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: DarkLotus]
    #9958092 - 03/12/09 12:35 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

LC needs gas exchange - a layer of tyvek on your jar will work fine.

FYI, inoculating a jar of LC with spores is a terrible way to go about making cultures. You have a pretty high chance of contamination and could waste a lot of time inoculating jars only to find out that they're growing mold instead of mushroom mycelium.

Don't get me wrong, LC made in this fashion will *work*, but there's a lot of potential for failure.

If you've got a pressure cooker and you're using grains, follow the tek for Grain LC in my signature.

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Offlinej0nnyb0y05
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: DarkLotus]
    #9958101 - 03/12/09 12:36 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

i just did this for my first lc too two weeks ago. If you do it in a sterile env and first, you should be fine, i just have my sitting with one layer of foil and its been fine.


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Offlinechobumms
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9958116 - 03/12/09 12:39 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
Without an air supply of some sort the mycelium will grow some, then stall out due to lack of oxygen.

So you've got two options.  One is to provide for filtered gas exchange, the other is to inject flame sterilized air.

I do all my lids (grain jars, lc's, etc) the same basic way:



Injection port + tyvek glued down over an air hole.

Little bit extra work, but they're re-usable and no fuss.

You can suck in air through a flame (slowly) into a clean syringe, then inject that into the LC jar and shake/swirl well.

It seemed like I needed to inject 20-30cc of air into a pint sized jar to get any significant growth and it would only last 2-3 days then stop growing again.

I did some comparisons awhile back and came to the conclusion that "sugar in the raw" was the cheapest, easiest sugar that produced good results to use in an LC. 

So I'd recommend that over honey, although I'm sure some people would disagree.  The sugar in the raw produces little to no discoloration or sediment and the mycelium grows well in it :-D

Plus it's already premeasured for you, 1 packet of sugar per 1 cup of water.





So when you glue the tyvek over the air hole, are you careful not to get the lc near the tyvek for fear of wicking in contams? I want to know! And that sugar in the raw recipe is cool.

I use a hole with polyfill in it. Do you think it's enough for gas exchange to avoid stalling growth?


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My "Faster Germination For Popcorn Substrate" TEK
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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: chobumms]
    #9958150 - 03/12/09 12:45 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Two words. micropore tape

Put a hole in the lid big enough for the needle. Put micropore tape over hole, put foil over the top of the jar, pressure cook/steam. Once it's cooled down, take the foil off the jar, and use an alcohol soaked cotton ball or paper towel and wipe down the micropore tape, then inject through that (with a flame sterilized/alcohol sterilized needle) and put a new piece of micropore tape right over top of the hole.

Check it in a few days you should see some growth


edit: Forgot to add, you can get micropore tape fuckin all over the place. Any walmart pharmacy or large grocery store will definately have it. Look for paper tape in the first aid section.

Edited by sh4d0ws (03/12/09 12:46 PM)

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Brennus]
    #9958159 - 03/12/09 12:45 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

cheers for that info.

i'm making it from a syringe i knocked up a few days ago not the spore print.
i think i will go with the double foil until i can get my hands on some tyvec and then i shall try a another lc using the tyvec.

i have already a few cakes innoc'ed from the same syringe so if they grow ok ie: without contams. would that not be a sign that the lc should be ok ??


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958182 - 03/12/09 12:49 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

i love the sound of the micropore tape but also read somewhere on here that if it gets wet it is a magnet for contams ??


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958200 - 03/12/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

niall_b73 said:
i love the sound of the micropore tape but also read somewhere on here that if it gets wet it is a magnet for contams ??




Any filter material (synthetic filter disc, polyfil, tyvek, micropore tape, vermiculite) that gets wet will wick in contaminants.

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Offlinedead
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Brennus]
    #9958323 - 03/12/09 01:13 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Here's how I make lid filters:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9550279

As for the LC: 2g honey & 100ml water, PC at 15psi for 15 minutes. Let cool and inoculate through the injection port.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: dead]
    #9958334 - 03/12/09 01:17 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

You can use polyfil lids, with coffee filter dust covers also. Just make sure to only make the Lc half the jar or 3/4 soo the myc doesnt start growing up the polyfil.


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OfflineJayBrasco
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Shr00mZ]
    #9958395 - 03/12/09 01:29 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

sometimes your jars can fall or tilt causing the lc to wet the gas exchange filter which is a troublemaker.

you can use tyvek polyfill micropore tape and if your broke, Coffee filter....

micropore is messy, the glue is messy and a hassle if you want to reuse your jars.

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958424 - 03/12/09 01:36 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

would elostaplast do ??

it is all i can get @ the moment

dead i like ur idea of cutting the syringe, i'll give that 1 at a later date


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9958673 - 03/12/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Try band aids.

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: mcsteev]
    #9958839 - 03/12/09 03:00 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

I made this a while back it works well, just follow the link 

Band-aids dont work well RR has said it many times and ive proved it with a contam, they dont last and dont breathe well.

Follow the link, its a light Karo tech but works great.
Good luck, and other questions PM me i have 7 diff strains goin right now in LC and can answer damn near any questions you have bout em...


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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: cdubbz111]
    #9959130 - 03/12/09 03:59 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Making injection ports is easy. You make a small hole in the lid, add a blob of silicone gel on both sides of the hole. Any silicone will do. It's not messy, it will self heal and you can re-use it as many times as you want.

I make injection ports to all my grain and LC jars. Also I use the 2-sided micropore filters, as described in the link I posted: as there are actually 2 filters, one on the inside & one on the outside, it doesn't matter if the one on the inside gets wet from the LC - the one on the outside will keep contams away until the inside filter dries.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: dead]
    #9959146 - 03/12/09 04:02 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

I tried micropore tape, but I'm not a big fan of it.  It does work, but it's messy and has to be replaced.

So far (3 or 4 cycles) I haven't had to replace any tyvek patches.


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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9959838 - 03/12/09 05:52 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

nice 1 lads valued info :thumbup:

now my other dilema is weather to just fruit the cakes into the fc or to case them, i have been thinking about the coco coir onits own or with verm ??

wot u all think


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


Edited by niall_b73 (03/12/09 05:56 PM)

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Offlinekiyote
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9959998 - 03/12/09 06:17 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:


i'm making it from a syringe i knocked up a few days ago not the spore print.
i think i will go with the double foil until i can get my hands on some tyvec and then i shall try a another lc using the tyvec.




In the states, you can get tyvec in any post office for free, but since your location says "Eire" you can be in either Ireland or Canada, so it may not apply. 

I also use tyvec.  It works nice!  :grin:

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: kiyote]
    #9960009 - 03/12/09 06:19 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

kiyote said:
Quote:


i'm making it from a syringe i knocked up a few days ago not the spore print.
i think i will go with the double foil until i can get my hands on some tyvec and then i shall try a another lc using the tyvec.




In the states, you can get tyvec in any post office for free, but since your location says "Eire" you can be in either Ireland or Canada, so it may not apply. 

I also use tyvec.  It works nice!  :grin:





when you say you can get it in the postoffice what do you mean ie:
what is its purpose/used for ??


--------------------
next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9963281 - 03/13/09 04:38 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

you should use coir verm a bit of gypsum and spent coffee grounds... thats what i use and it works wonders


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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: cdubbz111]
    #9963328 - 03/13/09 05:21 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

cdubbz111 said:
you should use coir verm a bit of gypsum and spent coffee grounds... thats what i use and it works wonders




I'm guessing any plasters that stick well that you can breath thru would work,maybe the plasters that come in a role,like tape,the one you have to cut with scissors would do the job.
but then I'm just guessing as Ive never done this and am always on the look out for what the UK version of things are.

I'm attempting my first lc tonight,i don't have any plaster tape or silicone so I'm just gona have a tiny injection point in the top of my jar lid with a layer of foil on top,i don't expect this to last forever,but if i get a week out of it after full colonization it will be enough to inoculate a shit load of jars and make a few more lc,s for the next batch.

its a pity their isn't a section of this site for European or UK growers showing our equivalent to what gets used in the us,it would make following techs a whole lot easyer,the amount of times i have hunted the shops for some product or another only to find they either don't sell it in the UK or it comes under a totally different name or comes from a different type of shop for other uses to what its used for in the us.
when i first started following techs for spice extraction it took me months to find everything i needed only to find i had it all under my nose all the time,just i was searching with the wrong names for stuff.

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: shponglecybin]
    #9963351 - 03/13/09 05:39 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

You can get silicone gel from hardware stores. Micropore tape from the pharmacy. They're not expensive, and with LC:s sterility is an issue since you can not tell if it's viable by appearance, you will have to try it out to know.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: shponglecybin]
    #9963452 - 03/13/09 06:38 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

shponglecybin said:
Quote:

cdubbz111 said:
you should use coir verm a bit of gypsum and spent coffee grounds... thats what i use and it works wonders




I'm guessing any plasters that stick well that you can breath thru would work,maybe the plasters that come in a role,like tape,the one you have to cut with scissors would do the job.
but then I'm just guessing as Ive never done this and am always on the look out for what the UK version of things are.






i no here in the uk micropore tape is called "surgical tape" it is white tape kinda clothy in texture and they use it to stick bandages with it can be bought in any chemist.


cdubbz111, would you have measurements/amounts that you mix your casing to??

shponglecybin, good luck with your culture

now i have also purchased a mini green house, i'm gonna keep it in my bedroom, but ne ideas on how i could keep up humidity in it ??

i hoe to get batterys  for my camera later so i will be able to post a few pics


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9963545 - 03/13/09 07:29 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

this is a link to the little green house i purchased:
http://www.tradeindia.com/selloffer/1653605/Mini-Greenhouse.html?source=rss-lead

so would it be good enough on its own if i just fanned & misted a few times a day if i were to use it as a fc ??

would it hold humidity alright ??

what modifications could i do to it ??


--------------------
next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9964058 - 03/13/09 10:30 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

here are some pics of the gear i am on about:

the liquid culture i knocked up last nite


the mini greenhouse i have bought today


and again


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Offlinekiyote
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9965724 - 03/13/09 03:59 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:


when you say you can get it in the postoffice what do you mean ie:
what is its purpose/used for ??




The Priority Mailing envelopes are made out of Tyvek.  They even say "Tyvek" in the upper corner.  If you can get them, make sure they're the priority and not the Express, which supposedly are part paper.

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: kiyote]
    #9965755 - 03/13/09 04:05 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

I picked up a suit of this from home depot for about $10.



I've done easily 100+ lids with it and haven't even used up a whole sleeve yet.

It's technically not tyvek, but the specs on it are consistent with tyvek and supposedly it's a little more breathable which helps keep jars from stalling out. 

My half gallon jar does really well with it, colonized faster then pint jars, granted I used like 7cc of LC, but lc is cheap.


--------------------
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Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9967442 - 03/13/09 10:26 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
I picked up a suit of this from home depot for about $10.



I've done easily 100+ lids with it and haven't even used up a whole sleeve yet.

It's technically not tyvek, but the specs on it are consistent with tyvek and supposedly it's a little more breathable which helps keep jars from stalling out. 

My half gallon jar does really well with it, colonized faster then pint jars, granted I used like 7cc of LC, but lc is cheap.





That suit's awesome!  xD 

Also, does that half gallon jar work well for you?  I'm thinking about moving up from quarts, but... :shrug:

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: kiyote]
    #9968968 - 03/14/09 07:15 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Yeah it works great, the main thing is it needs to be PC'd longer and needs a bigger air-hole for a little extra ge.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9969172 - 03/14/09 08:29 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

ohhhhh...... i just had a look at my lc and there is a nice bundle of myc in the bottom (well i hope it is myc) so it seems to be coming along nicely

:super:


--------------------
next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Offlinekiyote
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9969254 - 03/14/09 09:02 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

ohhhhh...... i just had a look at my lc and there is a nice bundle of myc in the bottom (well i hope it is myc) so it seems to be coming along nicely

:super:




Sweet!  Good luck!

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Offlinecdubbz111
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: kiyote]
    #9970336 - 03/14/09 01:06 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

for casings, you could simply use 49.5% sphagnum peat moss 49.5% vermiculite, and 1% gypsum... thats the way most do it, but i dont use casings so im no real source of help for casings. Good luck tho


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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: cdubbz111]
    #9975151 - 03/15/09 06:42 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

so two days later this is how it looks:





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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9976527 - 03/15/09 02:19 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

It's mega hard to get good lc pics.  You need some BRIGHT background like.  Full on sunlight works.  But looks pretty normal so far.


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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9994950 - 03/18/09 01:09 PM (15 years, 4 days ago)

well nearly a week now:





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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #9995180 - 03/18/09 01:44 PM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Looks pretty good man :-D

Glad it worked out for you.


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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10001409 - 03/19/09 01:59 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

cheers all 4 ur help.

so do i just bung it into the back of the fridge now untill needed & roughly speaking what would the shelf life be for this ??


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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #10001465 - 03/19/09 02:06 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

In the fridge, years I believe.


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Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10128540 - 04/08/09 08:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

shit...... i forgot to show you guys the finished product





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next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Invisible200proofhonky
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10128577 - 04/08/09 08:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
Without an air supply of some sort the mycelium will grow some, then stall out due to lack of oxygen.

So you've got two options.  One is to provide for filtered gas exchange, the other is to inject flame sterilized air.

I do all my lids (grain jars, lc's, etc) the same basic way:



Injection port + tyvek glued down over an air hole.

Little bit extra work, but they're re-usable and no fuss.

You can suck in air through a flame (slowly) into a clean syringe, then inject that into the LC jar and shake/swirl well.

It seemed like I needed to inject 20-30cc of air into a pint sized jar to get any significant growth and it would only last 2-3 days then stop growing again.

I did some comparisons awhile back and came to the conclusion that "sugar in the raw" was the cheapest, easiest sugar that produced good results to use in an LC. 

So I'd recommend that over honey, although I'm sure some people would disagree.  The sugar in the raw produces little to no discoloration or sediment and the mycelium grows well in it :-D

Plus it's already premeasured for you, 1 packet of sugar per 1 cup of water.






i use spongifoms ports too.

i use a polyfil breather hole on one side and a port on the other with tyvek under the lid.

there is no chance of the polyfil getting wet because the tyvek is there and when you tilt to suck some out you use the port.

basically the same thing he does but with polyfil instead.


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They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.

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Offlineniall_b73
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: 200proofhonky]
    #10128594 - 04/08/09 08:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

good idea....


--------------------
next time i order a pizza i'm gonna ask them to cut it into 6 slices instead of 8, because i was'nt fit for 8 the last time !!


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Invisible200proofhonky
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: kiyote]
    #10128657 - 04/08/09 08:58 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i would at least stuff that hole with some polyfil.

you should be able to find tyvek or something suitable.

also,you cant punch 2 holes,one on each side and cover one with rtv sealant or silicone and let it dry....stuff the other with polyfil.

you can then use the rtv or silicone sealed hole as a self healing injection port.
you also may want to PM spongiform...he used to have ports to trade.


--------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.

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OfflineImpatient
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Re: liquid culture question ?? [Re: niall_b73]
    #12313596 - 04/01/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i found that the foil should be off,mine double there innoc time when i found that it should.this is my first hand at all this,so i did 8 jars and birthed 5(because my foil was suffocating them)no contams YET!plus just did my first lc and 5 days going GREAT so thats my opinion best of luck

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