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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: deCypher]
#9951826 - 03/11/09 01:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Which scientists? Pretty much the only important thing the pineal gland is currently recognized in doing is stabilizing our sleep cycle with melatonin release.
Psychologists have theorized for a while that the pineal gland is key in emotions. There is no neurological proof that I'm aware of though.
Theories for emotion remind me of models of memory.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector



Registered: 02/20/08
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: Kickle]
#9951870 - 03/11/09 01:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Allow me to @ Meat robots .....this might not be far from the truth....
-------------------- I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!
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zouden
Neuroscientist



Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: Kickle]
#9952409 - 03/11/09 03:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Which scientists? Pretty much the only important thing the pineal gland is currently recognized in doing is stabilizing our sleep cycle with melatonin release.
Psychologists have theorized for a while that the pineal gland is key in emotions. There is no neurological proof that I'm aware of though.
Theories for emotion remind me of models of memory.
Actually, the amygdala is the emotion centre of the brain. The pineal gland is much smaller and much less interesting
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: zouden]
#9952543 - 03/11/09 03:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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source?
I'm not saying other parts of the brain do not play a role in emotion, I'm simply saying that it is theorized that the pineal gland is one part of many.
If you have a source showing otherwise, I'd love to see it.
Edited by Kickle (03/11/09 03:58 PM)
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zouden
Neuroscientist



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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: Kickle]
#9952668 - 03/11/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've never heard the pineal gland being described as anything other than the source of melatonin, apart from Rick Strassman saying it's the source of DMT, but he admits he has no evidence for that. Melatonin might affect mood but evidence is pretty sketchy, and even if it does affect mood it would do that via the amygdala.
The amygdala is a much larger organ quite close to the pineal gland, but I guess so is the hippocampus . The hippocampus definitely affects depression, though I think this is probably via the amygdala too. One day I'd like to find out.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: zouden]
#9952723 - 03/11/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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The function(s) of melatonin in humans is not clear. That's where theories about it come into play.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: justinsanity]
#9952750 - 03/11/09 04:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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justinsanity said: There is a scientific explanation behind everything. We are in a universe of rules, laws, patterns, and systems so precise that we can do absolutely anything and understand everything with technology and study.
Most things of the past that were considered magic and mysterious are today known in all developed countries as FACT and SCIENCE. These are KNOWN because they reoccur consistently and can be tested over and over again, forever and forever, without any shadow of a doubt that they are true.
Earth is in orbit around a ball of gas, and even a floating ball in space revolves around it so PRECISELY, we base our TIME SYSTEM on it. (If you are going to say, "well why is there a leap year and daylight savings time then?" Our calendar is traditional and we will continue to use it even though it isn't completely accurate) We know there are about 365.2425 days in a year and 9,192,631,770 Hertz in a second. These are very precise measurements and can't be argued against. It is PROOF and EVIDENCE.
Imagine a caveman coming to 1909. They are beginning to build cars and release motion pictures. This would be completely mind boggling to him because his world is nature, a club and fire if he is lucky. Then out of nowhere a shiny metal land gliding machine comes to pick him up. Imagine a person from the 1909 coming to 2019. You show him a computer, and he soils himself. To him it is magic, how could a flat surface display pictures nearly the quality of real life. Then you show him your blu-ray player and HDTV and he faints. To him its...
MAGIC because he didn't understand it.
When cavemen walked the Earth, what was their reasoning for the sky moving at night, they didn't know they were on a ball in open space, they saw it as MAGIC. When they started using fire, they didn't know it was a chemical reaction between Carbon, Oxygen and Nitrogen creating a perpetual heat cycle.
MAGIC until it was UNDERSTOOD.
Mysterious and magical spirit world experiences can be experienced through sacred plants and potions, Today they are known as peyote, mescaline, DMT, salvia divinorium, and marijuana. In the past it wasn't understood, so it was considered MAGICAL and MYSTERIOUS. Chemicals that alter dopamine levels in the brain and alter and mimic other chemical processes, altering the senses and creating hallucinations, alteration in time, and complete changes in reality.
MAGIC until it was UNDERSTOOD.
The thought of death and what happens after seems MAGICAL... why? Because we don't UNDERSTAND it.
It will remain MAGICAL and MYSTERIOUS until it has been understood. Science does support a place people call heaven or nirvana. It would be 4th dimensional place where time doesn't exist, because everything that happened or would happen already did.
What other things are MAGICAL and MYSTERIOUS today? Ghosts, angels, aliens?
There is always an explanation to everything, because that is how our universe is built. Everything can be explained, we just have a long way to go.
So does that mean that the universe isn't magical and mysterious... no. The fact that we there is a universe at all is amazing, the fact that we are conscious of anything is amazing.
Science will only ever be the experience we receive through our senses. The walls of our vessel. We reach in all directions and find new boundaries for each new set of hands.
But what's inside, what that experience is made out of on the most fundamental level, is no closer to being known than it was 5000 years ago. What you are can't be brought into the realm of science because to observe is to look outward and science is an act of observation.
Science should be the greatest ally of magic time has known, the quantifiable walls of reality confirming the infinite possibility of the will. But our souls have been smashed, great viral religions have grown out of the fabric of reality, indoctrinating us and demanding our faith in return for existential survival. And we have succumbed to the dogma.
Everything can be explained in time; but that inexplicable process we call time will always be magic.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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zouden
Neuroscientist



Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: Kickle]
#9952778 - 03/11/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: The function(s) of melatonin in humans is not clear. That's where theories about it come into play.
Yes 
The amygdala is the emotion centre of the brain, but it controls your emotions in response to various signals; if one of those signals is melatonin (which it might be) then yes, the pineal gland would have an effect on mood. I see what you're saying now. Sorry if I misunderstood you.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
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Re: Magic and Science: My understanding of the universe [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#9952837 - 03/11/09 04:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not at all, I'm glad to have the dialogue.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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