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Offlineiskinbash
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Casing vs. Wax Paper (UPDATE:3/19 - Shocking Conclusions)
    #9952832 - 03/11/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Just wanted to let my fellow community memebers be aware of a certain experiment im just starting to conduct if they were the least bit interested. Ive noticed many conversations of people going back and forth on casings and wax paper. Apperently they are supposed to be sort of the same...well, ive decided to test it, at least with my grows.

Ive got 7 deep lasagna tray subs and have also made sort of a monotub type thing, but not really mono tub because it doesnt have a top and it is sitting in my greenhouse alongside my other subs. 3 of 7 trays are cased with Jiffy Mix and the rest ive decided to use wax paper to create the microclimate. the monotub style tub is half cased and half has wax paper. Below are pics.

They are B+ and Brazilian multispore inoc into WBS. fully colonized then spawned to  a mix of 90% hpoo and coir (50/50 in that 90%), 2% coffee grounds and 8% verm (something like that) The spawn run took 12 days and everything colonized at the same pace nice and beautiful (besides a couple spots of metabolites).

They were put in fruiting conditions on the 9th and wax paper added today (the 11th). The ones with a casing layer were cased at the point in which they were introduced to fruiting conditions.

The point for me to do this is to figure out for myself what works the best with my method. I hope you guys can take something away from this as well. If you guys have any q's please feel free.








UPDATE 3/17

So, the first signs of pins came yesterday, and strangely enough, the first ones came from a cased substrate. Just so you all know, my casing layer is between 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick. There were maybe 1 or 2 visible pins yesterday, and now this morning...a shit ton. The other subs have visible pins, kind of like this one had yesterday, so maybe they are just slightly behind each other.  This sub is one of the Brazilians. And in my last few grows, the Brazilians have always pinned before the B+ anyways.




UPDADE 3/19

Ok, so unlike i thought, the cased substrates by far out performed the uncased subs. They pinned sooner, and are fruiting much much more than the uncased ones. The uncased subs still have pins appearing, and are far behind the cased subs. Even in the half/half cased/uncased tub has shitload more pins than the uncased side. I wish i had just cased everything. Take a look!




I will be updating this thread fairly often. So keep and eye out.


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Edited by iskinbash (03/19/09 03:02 PM)

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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9952901 - 03/11/09 04:52 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Looking forward to the results, my guess is the wax paper will be the best overall, simple, cheap, effective.


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Offlinem08b08
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9952904 - 03/11/09 04:53 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

holy shit ! i wish that was mine wanna trade my cakes for your tub ? lol just kidding nice job ! :thumbup:


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Invisibleshroomzey
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: m08b08]
    #9952991 - 03/11/09 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Something you may want to consider and test.. is fruiting the substrate as a cake (pop it out of the tub upside down, lay it on a lid or something) and compare that to a cased tray(and/or wax paper).


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200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
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Find a respected member of the community and study them.  I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: shroomzey]
    #9953042 - 03/11/09 05:15 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Ive done that before, when i had tubs. It didnt convice me it was any better. but at this point, with a greenhouse, it would just makes things more messy.


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Edited by iskinbash (03/11/09 05:16 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9953064 - 03/11/09 05:20 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

The wax paper isn't the same as a casing layer.  It doesn't add moisture to support the flush.  The only thing wax paper does is to help hold a high humidity right at the surface where primordia form.  Be sure to lift it when you fan the trays, and replace it when it gets soggy.
RR


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9953154 - 03/11/09 05:33 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I remember a long time ago doing a side by side test of cased vs uncased substrate and they both did fruit fairly well although the uncased ones with the wax paper took quite a bit longer to fruit,the cased ones were finished with their second flush while I was getting the 1st pins on the non cased ones,I for one would go and grab myself some MGMC if I had something to case

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: Blutjager]
    #9953165 - 03/11/09 05:35 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Usually, the opposite is true.  The wax paper covered uncased substrate fruits a week or so before the cased.
RR


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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9953216 - 03/11/09 05:42 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Usually, the opposite is true.  The wax paper covered uncased substrate fruits a week or so before the cased.
RR




I was under that impression. I am expecting the subs with wax paper to fruit much sooner. Im curious to watch them go.

And yes, I plan on misting / lifting the paper a couple times a day, along with replacing the wax paper every couple days, or as you put it RR, when it gets soggy. Thanks guys! loving this.


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Edited by iskinbash (03/11/09 05:45 PM)

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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9963629 - 03/13/09 08:03 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

So, quick question for anyone who has used the wax paper method before. In my greenhouse, the humidity makes the wax paper soft, and the weight of the added moisture makes the wax paper lay against the top of my sub instead of staying crinkley, and holding itself up. Is is a bad thing to have the wax paper actually lay against the top of the sub? I was thinking of sticking a toothpick straight up out of the middle of the sub, and kinda making a tent like thing to keep the wax paper off. Anyone have the same issue or any advice? Thanks a lot.


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Edited by iskinbash (03/13/09 08:04 AM)

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Invisibleshroomzey
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9964754 - 03/13/09 01:06 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

iskinbash said:
So, quick question for anyone who has used the wax paper method before. In my greenhouse, the humidity makes the wax paper soft, and the weight of the added moisture makes the wax paper lay against the top of my sub instead of staying crinkley, and holding itself up. Is is a bad thing to have the wax paper actually lay against the top of the sub? I was thinking of sticking a toothpick straight up out of the middle of the sub, and kinda making a tent like thing to keep the wax paper off. Anyone have the same issue or any advice? Thanks a lot.




If you're getting added moisture that is actually weighing the paper down(making it unwrinkled).. your environmental conditions are likely good.  You may not see many benefits to its use in this way...  Like a casing layer, it just helps with if environmental conditions are less than optimal.


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200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them.  I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.

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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: shroomzey]
    #9964793 - 03/13/09 01:12 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

hmm. thats a really good point.


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OfflineCaptain Caveman
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9964813 - 03/13/09 01:17 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Im having greenhouse issues too. My RH dropped from 100% down to 85%. I didnt start with the wax paper until I noticed this because Im not using a casing layer. I gotta figure out how this happened...


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Offlinethefinalhours
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: Captain Caveman]
    #9964836 - 03/13/09 01:22 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

so you are covering the trays with wax paper? Did you do that to the casing?

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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: thefinalhours]
    #9964843 - 03/13/09 01:23 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

The subs with wax paper dont have a casing layer. This was them before the wax paper was applied...




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Edited by iskinbash (03/13/09 01:26 PM)

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Offlinethefinalhours
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: iskinbash]
    #9964860 - 03/13/09 01:26 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

iskinbash said:
The subs with wax paper dont have a casing layer.



So you just broke up your substrates and layered them, then covered with wax paper? Hmm....I might do that next time. I don't like waiting for the casing layer to get colonized.

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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: thefinalhours]
    #9964866 - 03/13/09 01:28 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

I layered colonized WBS with hpoo/coir, waited for them to colonize, put them in fruiting conditions and added the wax paper.


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Offlinethefinalhours
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: thefinalhours]
    #9964876 - 03/13/09 01:29 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

SO I've got a montub that is been put into fruiting conditions, could I lay down some wax paper to speed this up?

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OfflineCaptain Caveman
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: thefinalhours]
    #9964884 - 03/13/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

No. It might propagate any contam spores that might already be there. Wax paper, as I understand it from RR, is to be used only from the very start.


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Offlineiskinbash
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Re: Casing vs. Wax Paper [Re: thefinalhours]
    #9964887 - 03/13/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

It doesnt speed it up necessarily. Is your monotub uncased? The wax paper just creates a microclimate similar to a casing layer, but you need to lift the paper for FAE and mist accordingly. In the wax paper vs casing layer, the wax paper should allow the sub to fruit sooner since there is no casing layer to colonize. So in that respect, it should be faster...but im waiting to find out for sure.


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Edited by iskinbash (03/13/09 01:32 PM)

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