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InvisibleZanthius
Mean Alien
Male

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 1,570
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9940609 - 03/09/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
the only perfect human would be one who did not have to worry about survival and thus could love everyone and anyone

of course, such a trait in people would probably not be very good for their survival




But now we can genetically engineer humans, and if you have enough money in your account, you don't need to worry about survival.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9940697 - 03/09/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

as figmentfragment pointed out, there is no survival disadvantage to human imperfections of tolerance

Up until now you mean. There is no way to know if this extends into our future on this planet. With population growth and other factors we might need to change and adapt or perish. Who knows?:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineJethro Tull
Oneness
Male


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 467
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: deCypher]
    #9941407 - 03/09/09 06:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be too hasty to dismiss completely destroying ourselves as an inevitable option, though.




We will either come to know the truth the hard way, or know the truth without this seemingly inevitable option.  It's now or never, we have chemical weapons and enough nuclear bombs to turn this planet into dust.  Keep on seeking sincerely, and you will find the truth.  Hopefully the truth will become self-evident for most people soon, so the folks who turn the key and press the red "launch" button will no longer be inclined toward mercilessly killing billions of people.


--------------------
..and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

DC at:  Oneness

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OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Icelander]
    #9942706 - 03/09/09 10:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
as figmentfragment pointed out, there is no survival disadvantage to human imperfections of tolerance

Up until now you mean. There is no way to know if this extends into our future on this planet. With population growth and other factors we might need to change and adapt or perish. Who knows?:shrug:




The future could potentially bring anything...

This is not a matter of saying what will or will not happen. Its a matter of likelyhood.

considering that humans have never lived together harmoniously all as one, where does this idea come from?

IT seems to be an artifact, a residual concept.

Humans, like all mammals, have survived by creating a group, and making sure that their group had maximal dominance over land and resources.

Humans cannot create one group to fit everyone because as soon as you put everyone in one group, humans will identify themselves as being at one pole of the group's convictions or superficial appearances, and thus subgroups will form within the main group, and these subgroups will compete for dominance and become the significant 'grouping factor' as opposed to 'human'.




This is life

it comes with competition

because each being has a physical body which requires actual resources which are limited on the fact of the earth. Yet each person is driven to stay alive.

If humans are to get along, we will require a lot more space, to ensure that there are enough resources and land to dominate so that there is never any competition

life without competition.. doesnt that just seem absurd???????


--------------------

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OfflineMycoUnderground
Enthusiast
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Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 467
Loc: Suburban CO
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9943138 - 03/09/09 11:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think in a true utopia you could not get bored if you don't like to be bored.

Unless you actually want to be bored.  Then you will be.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9944600 - 03/10/09 09:06 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Define "people" (whom, singular or group) and "eventually" (rough time frame) in context to the idea.




People as in human beings, and eventually in the meaning the word has: an unspecified time in the future, ultimately. Of course it is a rough time frame, this is the meaning of this word and also the reason why I used it. Since I obviously can't foresee the future, all I did was state my personal opinion about what I think could happen, based on my own observations about the human mind in general, and my own in particular. :grin:

Quote:

Is this thought merely optimistic or based on some historical example of this occurring?




Like I said before, it is based on personal opinion. Since one can change on a personal level in such a way that one ends up with a mentality that doesn't feed on drama and fear, I think it very possible, given the right conditions (such as education and personal determination), for this to become a trend in a larger group of people. I think that nobody actually wants to be in a situation where things aren't favorable for them, and that usually, the reason why people are taking poor decisions that are harmful both for the self and other persons, is because of their poor judgment and not because they want truly want it. If a better and more constructive behavior can be learned, I think people will be inclined to adopt it.

Quote:

The state the human race has "evolved" to currently, I see no evidence that stupidity is synonymous with extinction.




Depends on the circumstances. There were other civilizations that went extinct because of their stupidity, so I don't know what lack of evidence you're talking about.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9944621 - 03/10/09 09:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
as figmentfragment pointed out, there is no survival disadvantage to human imperfections of tolerance

Up until now you mean. There is no way to know if this extends into our future on this planet. With population growth and other factors we might need to change and adapt or perish. Who knows?:shrug:




The future could potentially bring anything...

This is not a matter of saying what will or will not happen. Its a matter of likelyhood.

considering that humans have never lived together harmoniously all as one, where does this idea come from?

IT seems to be an artifact, a residual concept.

Humans, like all mammals, have survived by creating a group, and making sure that their group had maximal dominance over land and resources.

Humans cannot create one group to fit everyone because as soon as you put everyone in one group, humans will identify themselves as being at one pole of the group's convictions or superficial appearances, and thus subgroups will form within the main group, and these subgroups will compete for dominance and become the significant 'grouping factor' as opposed to 'human'.




This is life

it comes with competition

because each being has a physical body which requires actual resources which are limited on the fact of the earth. Yet each person is driven to stay alive.

If humans are to get along, we will require a lot more space, to ensure that there are enough resources and land to dominate so that there is never any competition

life without competition.. doesnt that just seem absurd???????





I agree, yet during all that time there was also cooperation among humans and tribes. So it just gets down to a matter of degree. If we got along more and were a little less knee jerk about attacking and killing our "enemies" (who some lackey politician tells us, ignorant, knee jerk, sheep, is our current enemy)we might just survive a little better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Utopia would get rather boring after a while... [Re: Icelander]
    #9950025 - 03/11/09 02:56 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

people will always cooperate with their own group... the issue is whether all 8 billion humans can fit in one group.. not gonna happen. The success of humans has always been their tribe against surrounding animals/tribes. Once the groups rose above a certain size, they become circumstantial. Eg, people might cooperate when fighting together .. but they might conflict and argue if they are prosperous and have no common plight for survival or success.

The human tribes now cover the globe, almost.

They keep cooperating and trading money etc.

But they cannot cooperate on every level without all being the one group

which cannot happen when you consider the amount of ways that people identify other people and themselves, and the fact that if everyone became one group then there would be ONLY distinguishing factors between humans and no distinguishing factor of the whole group of humans from any other group of factors

thus there is no'contrast' glue sticking everyone together and there are the maximal amount of ways to divide up the group of any initial scenario.

There are inherent factors in humanity preventing the notion of one tribe of monkeys completely covering the earth, treating eachother as equals.

In fact, if people started acting selflessly, they would die out, because the one thing that would benefit the most amount of humans the most amount, would be to reduce the human population atm

selfless people are constantly selected out of the gene pool


--------------------

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