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Offlinebillhilly09
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When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok?????
    #9939690 - 03/09/09 01:45 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

When a person has hit a wall with every turn and is at the bottom of the barrel, and no matter how hard you try to overcome the situation. Also, in looking at all options, and you see others are not gaining anything and would receive money upon your death, then couldn't suicide be looked at as a way to end the misery and since you are helping bring money due to your death, wouldn't that justify the act?????

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9939746 - 03/09/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Suicide is never a solution, you'd be forced to repeat the circumstances in a "subsequent" life. Whatever problems would cause someone to ponder such thoughts need to be looked at in a different perspective. The hardest life's act as catalysts for spiritual evolution. In short, No. Especially for the illusory gain of material "money," which is hardly a trade off for the infinite value of every single life. :heart:

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9939754 - 03/09/09 01:55 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I'm just curious cosmo, what makes you believe that if he kills himself he has to do this all over? I keep hearing this point of view on these forums and I'm wondering what kind of experience reveals this knowledge.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #9939880 - 03/09/09 02:16 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I'm just curious cosmo, what makes you believe that if he kills himself he has to do this all over? I keep hearing this point of view on these forums and I'm wondering what kind of experience reveals this knowledge.




It's an idea that I've picked up from various channeled material which I deem reliable. I'll try and reference an exact person when I can think of it, it might have been in the Law of One. Of course we can't even prove past lives yet, unless you consider hypnotic regression and dreams proof :smile:.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9940102 - 03/09/09 02:52 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

billhilly09 said:
When a person has hit a wall with every turn and is at the bottom of the barrel, and no matter how hard you try to overcome the situation. Also, in looking at all options, and you see others are not gaining anything and would receive money upon your death, then couldn't suicide be looked at as a way to end the misery and since you are helping bring money due to your death, wouldn't that justify the act?????





There's nothing wrong with doing yourself in. It's a personal freedom to live and die according to your own values rather then the values of those who would control your life and how you think and choose to act.

These control freaks can be your parents and friends, the govt or religious leaders and often posters at the Shroomery.

However I would say that it would be good to make sure you look at all your options knowing that it is a final decision. But in the end of course you will die anyway.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9940355 - 03/09/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

billhilly09 said:
When a person has hit a wall with every turn and is at the bottom of the barrel, and no matter how hard you try to overcome the situation. Also, in looking at all options, and you see others are not gaining anything and would receive money upon your death, then couldn't suicide be looked at as a way to end the misery and since you are helping bring money due to your death, wouldn't that justify the act?????




Nothing wrong with it whatsoever so long as you're absolutely sure that your situation will never improve from this point onward.

There is no point in continuing needless suffering; suicide offers eternal peace for the problems that plague the minds of mortal men.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: deCypher]
    #9940589 - 03/09/09 03:59 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Become a master theif first, or do something insane. Try to steal the crown jewels or something.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #9940876 - 03/09/09 04:35 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

This isn't bad advice. If the pain is emotional making a sweeping change in lifestyle often can kick one out of a rut that makes one feel trapped. However going to jail once you get out of your rut may not really be what you are after.:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemr.bixby
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: Icelander]
    #9942645 - 03/09/09 09:56 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I'm just curious cosmo, what makes you believe that if he kills himself he has to do this all over? I keep hearing this point of view on these forums and I'm wondering what kind of experience reveals this knowledge.




It's an idea that I've picked up from various channeled material which I deem reliable. I'll try and reference an exact person when I can think of it, it might have been in the Law of One. Of course we can't even prove past lives yet, unless you consider hypnotic regression and dreams proof :smile:.




I've read that theory in "Home with God in a life that never ends" by Neale Walsh about suicide.  Can't prove it but I put my belief into it as a lot of his material has helped me through the years.
It would be interesting to here more of the original posters position than a vague scenerio.  It's a very difficult decision to make and no matter what the possible consequences suicide can seem enticing at times.

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InvisibleShr00mZ
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: mr.bixby]
    #9942739 - 03/09/09 10:10 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I was raised on the basis that suicide is never okay. My father always would talk about the subject. Not because he was suicidal but the fact he knew alot of ppl that killed themselves. The scary part is I do too. I can tell you first hand experience... that you will be damned in purgatory til jesus comes back to earth.


You know what really makes ppl kill themselves? Society. Opinions. Depression.
Everyone goes through these things. There is no brick wall that you cant conquer. Having the will power to do it, is a different issue. Thats for you to master. Everytime I hear of someone killing themself I cry for them, I literally cry. Im a grown man. I dont feel for their pain on earth, but for their after life.


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Offlinejvm
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: mr.bixby]
    #9942759 - 03/09/09 10:13 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I've been there... the wall. All surrounding, never ending. First off. Be strong willed. Killing yourself is easy. It won't solve anything though. If you give up now then what if. The curiosity of 'what if' has kept me from killing myself and i've grown a lot during my late teen years. Just die when you're going to die. Don't take the shortcut because its easy and seems to be the only door presenting itself. Be patient and others will open. Try to understand your problems, try to free yourself from these invisible chains. Understand what is holding you back. And fuck money. The little amount of money will never replace you. The people you affect or effect. They mean a lot. You mean a lot in this small world. You just cant compare yourself to the world as a whole.

Just wait... there's always more waiting if you're willing to suffer for the time being.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: jvm]
    #9942779 - 03/09/09 10:16 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

jvm said:
Just wait... there's always more waiting if you're willing to suffer for the time being.




In some cases, only more suffering.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: deCypher]
    #9943003 - 03/09/09 10:49 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

jvm said:
Just wait... there's always more waiting if you're willing to suffer for the time being.




In some cases, only more suffering.




No feat is unconquerable, suffering is only temporary. We've all had our own bouts with depression, the feeling that you no longer wish to live. I for one, am happy I am alive and have so much more to learn in this lifetime. Horrendous circumstances carve people in strong human beings.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9943038 - 03/09/09 10:55 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

They do, and I'm sure plenty a person has managed to crawl back out of depression and fix all their problems.  However, there still remain cases where there is literally no hope and only pain left.  Why would you prolong needless suffering?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9943128 - 03/09/09 11:10 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Shr00mZ said:
I was raised on the basis that suicide is never okay. My father always would talk about the subject. Not because he was suicidal but the fact he knew alot of ppl that killed themselves. The scary part is I do too. I can tell you first hand experience... that you will be damned in purgatory til jesus comes back to earth.




So, the psychology here essentially consists of, 'even though it hurts bad, you'd better not kill yourself or you will hurt more!'

When simplified, this amounts to using the threat of punishment to prevent a potential action, against a person who is already likely oblivious to anything other than their current suffering no less... Very sophisticated. :thumbup:

First hand experience in this case is purely second hand anyway.

I would hesitate to kill myself simply to alleviate my own suffering. It would seem a bit trite considering I don't suffer from a fatal or excruciatingly painful chronic condition. That's just my personal opinion. In retrospect, at any moment in my life when I have felt the desire to extinguish, I was certainly in a most pathetic and ridiculous state of being, not even worthy of the act I fantasized about.

(Why is this thread in M&P when it clearly belongs in either P&S or Well-being?)


--------------------

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9943185 - 03/09/09 11:21 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

billhilly09 said:
Also, in looking at all options, and you see others are not gaining anything and would receive money upon your death




Better make sure that your death doesn't look like a suicide.
Life insurance companies won't pay for a suicide.

Suicide is never the answer to your problems.

I have been as low as a person can go. I lost my wife, home, my grandkids and everything but the clothes in my suitcase ....everything that I cared about was gone.

The only hope I had was the hope that my daughter would let me see my grandkids again.
My grandkids literally saved my life and they don't even know.

Time heals ALL wounds.

Give your situation 6 months and I guarantee things will be better.

:peace:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleScratcher
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: deCypher]
    #9944985 - 03/10/09 10:41 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

suicide offers eternal peace for the problems that plague the minds of mortal men.



I would have to agree with Cosmo and say that, no, suicide does not offer eternal peace but only a new opportunity to reincarnate into a 3rd density physical life where the lessons not learned in the incarnation ended by suicide are attempted once again.  Here are a couple of quotes to back up this theory:

Quote:

...death by suicide caus(es) the necessity for much healing work and, shall we say, the making of a dedication to the third-density for the renewed opportunity of learning the lessons set by the Higher Self.  -RA




Quote:

We shall begin by removing the concept of the suicide, as your peoples call it, for we find it overlaid with emotional content that distorts...When an entity finds itself in an incarnation lacking in that desire and dedication to learn those lessons which it has chosen to learn, and lacking in such an extent that it in some way contributes to the ending of its incarnation in what might be called a premature manner, then it shall find as it reviews the incarnation so ended that there was indeed the lack of desire, and it shall then find within itself the desire to complete that which was left incomplete. Therefore, such an entity may find that the lack of desire in one incarnation shall be balanced by a rededication to those lessons not learned and that situation not well used, and shall, once again, enter an incarnation in which the situation and the lessons and the desire dance together to find that there is the learning of love.  -LATWII




And one more quote from Latwii that applies to everything that can possibly happen in our lives, including suicide:

Quote:

...there are no mistakes...we repeat, there are no mistakes.



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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: Scratcher]
    #9945022 - 03/10/09 10:48 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Ultimately of course it boils down to whether you believe in an afterlife.  If you do, and you believe it's affected by your choices here on Earth, then of course it makes rational sense not to commit suicide.  I, however, do not, and I see absolute monitions against suicide only keeping people in indefinite agony and suffering.  It's our own life to do with as we please, no?  Would you prevent a terminally ill cancer patient from receiving euthanasia? 

Also, how do those quotes explicitly define suicide?  Obviously jumping off a bridge counts, but what about smoking cigarettes?  Isn't this a slow form of suicide, just like eating fast food compared to healthy?  Does this mean everyone who doesn't live their life to the maximum possible potential will automatically have to repeat the lessons given in their current incarnation?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleScratcher
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: deCypher]
    #9945102 - 03/10/09 11:06 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

I would imagine it comes down to intention.  Does a person who lights up a smoke or sits down to a burger say to themselves "I do this to end my life."  No, of course not.  And, it was mentioned above that what was being discussed was contributing to your death in a premature manner.  All incarnations have to end some way and if one believes that on a spiritual level we make that choice ourselves then by looking at statistics I would say that many people choose things like cancer and heart disease as there 'exit plan'.  If this is reached by smoking or diet, that does not in any way suggest that the goals and lessons set out for that particular incarnation were not accomplished.  But even with all this being said, I think you kind of missed my overall comment which was that no matter what happens, it's all good.  If someone wants to express their freewill through suicide then go for it.  I believe that with this choice, though, nothing is avoided, only prolonged.  Like a sort of spiritual procrastination.

Quote:

Would you prevent a terminally ill cancer patient from receiving euthanasia?




I would not prevent another being from doing anything other than manipulating me or attempting to cause me bodily harm. 

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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: When it's a brick wall all the way around, is suicide ok????? [Re: billhilly09]
    #9947795 - 03/10/09 07:25 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

There is no such thing as a brick wall all the way around



:yoda2:

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