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 OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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 Is my friend's jar okay? 
#9934047 - 03/08/09 03:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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My friend inoculated 10 BRF jars 31 days ago. The growth in those jars was so slow that, for a while, he assumed they were dead.
But, about 23 days into the project he noticed that this stuff (circled in red) was growing ( he thought it might have been clumps of rice flour before he noticed it was growing).
Some research was done, and he found some mistakes in his procedures:
His incubator (a heating pad, lol) was at too high of a temperature (87°F at the highest point, so not enough to kill the myc or dry out the cakes).
He also found that he should not have kept the incubator sealed as he had originally thought, and this was corrected.
He may have packed the BRF/Verm into the jars too tightly (hes new at this, lol) but doesnt know how you can tell.
The jars might be too wet, condensation has formed on about 10-20% of the glass.
THE QUESTIONS:
Is it time for my friend to give up on these jars? I think they might be dead, and that the stuff thats growing is just contamination (very light brown rather than bright white).
If it is mycelium, what can he do to increase their growth rate? Hes getting annoyed that, at this growth rate, itll be another month before he can fruit (if its even mushrooms growing in there).
The stuff circled in red is prevalent throughout the jar (as you can see). I just thought that this chunk of stuff was a particularly good example.
Thanks, in advance, for your help!
Edited by OttoGenerated (03/08/09 03:28 PM)
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 freespeech
disciple
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Your procedure contains inaccurate or outdated techniques.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/BRF-Pf-Tek
Start over. Watch all 4 videos, follow along, and you are virtually guaranteed good results. 
Doooo it
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freespeech
disciple
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: freespeech]
#9934059 - 03/08/09 03:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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PS, I don't think you're ever going to see good results from these jars, even if they do fully colonize, which seems unlikely at this point. I recommend you start over.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: freespeech]
#9934064 - 03/08/09 03:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe that he attempted to follow that video, actually. But he did make some mistakes.
The most important questions are: Is this mycelia? and How can he increase growth rate?
Edited by OttoGenerated (03/08/09 03:32 PM)
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benzeb
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Registered: 10/03/08
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I don't know about those jars... I'd start a new batch and follow the procedures described in one of the many teks. 80-85 seems to be optimal, at least for me, since I've had jars grow rapidly in that range. However, in nature I've seen impressive growth in less than good conditions. So, there could be a bacterial contam. I'm new so I'm an idiot don't listen to me!
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: freespeech]
#9934071 - 03/08/09 03:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd start over, if done right you can have good results in like 2 weeks.
If you try to recover these, they'll have a high chance of contam's from sitting so long and could take weeks/months to recover, IF they even do.
Lower temps (70-80f)
No need for incubator unless your room temp is below 60f.
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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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freespeech
disciple
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Quote:
OttoGenerated said:
I believe that he attempted to follow that video, actually. But he did make some mistakes.
The most important questions are: Is this mycelia? and How can he increase growth rate?
I doubt that these jars are ever going to colonize fully. Feel free to sit on them for a while (just leave them alone at room temperature on a high shelf somewhere) but really, these jars are fucked.
Start over! Follow the video as closely as possible. Leave your substrate loose and airy; don't pack it at all. Don't use an incubator.
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freespeech
disciple
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Spongiform]
#9934079 - 03/08/09 03:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Spongiform said:
I'd start over, if done right you can have good results in like 2 weeks.
If you try to recover these, they'll have a high chance of contam's from sitting so long and could take weeks/months to recover, IF they even do.
Lower temps (70-80f)
No need for incubator unless your room temp is below 60f.
Exactly
You want advice - that's it. Start over. Good luck 
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Jitsu
JKD Love
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1,073
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where'd you get your spores from? I don't see any mycelium growth in that jar.
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Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there.
How I get my Pinsets
The Capabilities Of A Shotgun FC
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CamKron
Mychotic
Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 1,215
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: freespeech]
#9934082 - 03/08/09 03:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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what you circled looks alot like what my jars look like before i noc em up...which means i think that is just a spot of BRF that is clumped together
doesnt look like myc imo...
keep the jars (unless you dont have anymore) and cook up soem new ones
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   All Pics And Advice Is Just Google Research 
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Alex Trebek
Game Show Host
Registered: 01/17/09
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Quote:
OttoGenerated said:
His incubator (a heating pad, lol) was at too high of a temperature (87�F at the highest point, so not enough to kill the myc or dry out the cakes).
You don't need a incubator, unless your house is cold during these winter months. Jars are a few degree's warmer then the temperature around them. So the incubator was probably hotter then 87 since it was keeping the heat in and the jars were hotter then that resulting in no growth.
I leave my jars on a shelf in a room that is set to 70 degrees.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Spongiform]
#9934105 - 03/08/09 03:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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So he should:
Toss the cakes.
Start again following RR's videos
Incubate at room temp (68ºF-72°F, is that an acceptable range?)
More questions:
What else might he have done incorrectly?
Should he make some liquid culture to speed up incubation (reduce contamination risk)?
Oh, also the B+ spores came from Lil' Shop of Spores and there were no spore clumps visible in the syringe. He now has a syringe of EQ from Spore Works with very visible spore clumps. Could he have gotten a bunk syringe?
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: CamKron]
#9934117 - 03/08/09 03:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CamKron said:
what you circled looks alot like what my jars look like before i noc em up...which means i think that is just a spot of BRF that is clumped together
doesnt look like myc imo...
keep the jars (unless you dont have anymore) and cook up soem new ones
That's what I thought, but it's growing. 
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ABC
Stranger
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1,439
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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There's no need for visible spore clusters. There are still spores, just you can't see them.
Just use the spore syringes for inoculation. Making an LC from a spore syringe isn't the best way to go about making LC
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Making liquid culture is one of the best things you can learn to do.
It'll save you a shit load of money on spores.
It'll save alot of time on colonization.
And the faster it colonizes the less time contams have to get in and take root.
Also, if you switch to plastic containers and use LC you can have cakes ready in about a week after inoculating.
Personally, I wouldn't ever do PF in glass again, plastic is just so much faster :-D
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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
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Posts: 309
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Spongiform]
#9934181 - 03/08/09 03:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is plastic faster?
Also, I'm getting mixed signals here. Some say yes to LC some say no. Which is correct and why?
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Master Lc and you will forget the last time you needed to buy spores,you may never buy them again except to tinker around and strain dabble
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut
Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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(Can't see any mycelium in the pic.) Usually the first signs of growth appear in about 3 days. If I saw nothing after a week and was incubating at a good temperature (e.g. 80° F) I'd start over.
Condensation is normal and typically not something to be concerned about. (Excess water due to incorrect substrate ratio or leakage during pressure cooking/sterilization can cause problems, but that's different than condensation.)
When filling the jars with substrate, don't pack it down or compress it at all. Mycelium loves those little pockets of air.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 309
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Screw it. I'll start over and buy a bunch of the plastic jars in your tek. No LC, for now.
Thanks to all of you for your help. 
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Blutjager]
#9934258 - 03/08/09 04:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Check out the link in my sig for details, but in a nutshell.
You inoculate the pf mix with LC (couple cc's) and then wait 3-4 days for it to get a foot hold then shake it up and redistribute it all over, and it fluffs up the mix.
Here's a half-pint container for an example:
Inoculated:
Notice the wet spot.
After a couple days it looks like this ->
Then you shake it up.
2 days later it looks like this ->
2-3 days after that it looks like this:
Fully colonized and ready to use.
Takes 6-8 days depending on how aggressive your strain/genetics are, temperature, how well the mix was made, etc.
Doing it this way does require a little more initial time investment and is a bit more complicated to set up, but once it's set up it's easy & fast.
Then you can do crap like this:
:-D
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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 309
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Spongiform]
#9942287 - 03/09/09 09:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The temperature in my friend's house is 66-70°F I know that mushrooms can grow at these temperature, but he wants to increase the temperature to speed up growth.
Would wrapping the jars with a fleece blanket help to increase the temperature much, or would that be a waste of time?
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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That temperature is fine. Remember the mycelium produces heat due to metabolism and the jar's will insulate it. So the jars will be a few degrees warmer on the inside then the surrounding air.
I wouldn't mess with it.
--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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OttoGenerated
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 309
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Is my friend's jar okay? [Re: Spongiform]
#9942490 - 03/09/09 09:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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So that's a no on the blanket idea, correct?
Also, thanks!
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Land_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut
Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
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The blanket isn't going to make too much of a difference temperature-wise. If a person wanted the fastest colonization with spore-inoculated PF substrate, one would incubate at about 80°-82°. 68° average is still fine but things will move a little slower so an incubator is certainly recommended.
Edited by Land_Crab (03/09/09 11:44 PM)
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