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 ScavengerType
 
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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 Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!)  [Re: DieCommie]
#9920090 - 03/05/09 10:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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hey zounden can they have a smoking bar if the waitresses wear gasmasks? It would be a pretty cool bar, I think.
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit! 
Last seen: 22 minutes, 46 seconds
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: ScavengerType]
#9920340 - 03/05/09 10:52 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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OOh! It could be a post-apocalypse theme bar!
Or, as we will be calling them in the near future... "bars".
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This space for rent
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#9920776 - 03/06/09 12:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
#9921089 - 03/06/09 02:04 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ScavengerType said:
hey zounden can they have a smoking bar if the waitresses wear gasmasks? It would be a pretty cool bar, I think.
Not a silly question either. If the problem is the smoke exposure why not allow such a rule? Ban the problem not some larger thing which the problem is a subset of. I detest overbroad legislation. For example, we couldn't have smoking in a building outside with four walls and plenty of ventilation cuz the law still called it inside. We couldn't put in fans that removed the particulate matter and smoke to an acceptable degree, couldn't do anything.
I'm really sick of laws that are proposed to deal with a particular issue and justified on that ground applying to all sorts of situations in which the problem doesn't apply. You just get injustice as a result.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: johnm214]
#9921108 - 03/06/09 02:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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But the laws are quite popular, because not many people smoke. It's a perfect example of tyranny of the majority.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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MrBump
Third prize is you're fired
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 4,263
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: nonwo]
#9925967 - 03/06/09 10:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nonwo said:
pussys that cant deal with a little smoke 
Please tell me what you hate the most so I can shove it up your nose and cram it down your throat w/o your permission.
And to the OP, the gov would never ban a profit center like the tax revenue on cigs. They'll just make it so you can only do it in your home.
If pot were legalized tomorrow, and the government had a 100% dope tax on it, most on this forum would pay no mind to the excessive taxation. Cigarettes are every bit the recreational drug that the scheduled substances are.
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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.
There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.
Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: MrBump]
#9926254 - 03/06/09 11:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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If the govt taxed pot 100%, Id sure as hell seek out the black market.
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MrBump
Third prize is you're fired
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 4,263
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: DieCommie]
#9926332 - 03/07/09 12:03 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was being a little facetious, however (and not knowing the retail value of theoretically legalized pot) if a 100% tax raised a $10 1/8th to a $20 1/8th, you wouldnt use the black market to purchase pot.
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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.
There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.
Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: MrBump]
#9926339 - 03/07/09 12:06 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sure I would, I just bought a $10 eighth tax free a few hours ago 
Nothing should be taxed that high, and the black market will arise if it is attempted. If this cigar tax goes through, Ill get cigars from oversees or shady shops - its all good.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: DieCommie]
#9927345 - 03/07/09 08:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come on though. You guys are radically underestimating how cheep it would be to legally produce pot. The price would likely be down to about $2-3 an eighth, a 100% tax would seem slight and at that price the government could tax over 200% and it'd still be cheaper than current black market. I'm not sure what the standards would be on it but I'm pretty sure people would look at unlicenced pot similar to moonshine. Sure it may be good, some may drink (smoke) it, but the majority of people will be worried they will "go blind" or (more realistically for pot) become addicted to meth.
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: ScavengerType]
#9927515 - 03/07/09 10:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is that how much pot costs where it is legal? $2-3 an eighth?
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: DieCommie]
#9927547 - 03/07/09 10:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am uncertain but I'll say that I personally know people who if Marijuana was legalized could open up a factory within a week(a month if there are complications) that would crank out quality hydro-table bud for a comparable price.
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: ScavengerType]
#9927563 - 03/07/09 10:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well... what I know is that where it is legal it is $5-15 per GRAM and that I would have no fear or problem buying weed (or cigars, or anything) on the black market to avoid ridiculously extreme taxes. Especially taxes whos sole purpose is to change my lifestyle rather than raise funds for necessary infrastructure.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: DieCommie]
#9927680 - 03/07/09 11:07 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you sure that's not after taxes?
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
#9929116 - 03/07/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im just ignoring this. All my interests are attacked by government with amazing accuracy.
Drugs
Guns
Pitbulls
When i saw a cigar rights of america poster for the fist time i just ignored it. It's just too much. I should not have to need a NRA for motherfucking cigars of all things.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: ScavengerType]
#9929179 - 03/07/09 04:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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ScavengerType has a point - the black market itself puts a very high markup on products. You're paying for the clandestine nature of the operation.
Does oregano cost $10/ounce? Is marijuana any harder to produce than oregano?
Mass production of dried plant matter is one of the cheapest things we can do.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
#9929634 - 03/07/09 05:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Eh, there will always be a market for commodities disproportionate to their actual value.
Diamonds are just rocks, but sell for tens of thousands of dollars. A person can easily grow their own tobacco, but almost everyone pays ridiculous sums for it.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Dementous
Journeyman
Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 197
Loc: Subconscious
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9933848 - 03/08/09 02:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its sad to see the "My drug is holier than thou's" people... I turned 18 not too long ago, and went searching for a good cigar as a Right of Passage. After some nasty tasting cheapo ones, I found a well flavored one at a Tobacco Shop. Me and my so called hippy friends got 2 and and the 4 of us shared with one another. Had a great time talking under a haze of cigar smoke. Decided that it was something we oughtta do more often.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Dementous]
#9934078 - 03/08/09 03:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes asking not to be exposed to cigar/cigarette smoke and risk cancer despite opting out of the risky behavior is clearly a holier than thou approach.
I think in Canada taxes on smokes are high because healthcare is universal. Though I still think that they generate a disproportionately low amount of revenue compared to the expenses that are created by them. There are other expenses from smoking that contribute to the public expense, but without universal healthcare I can't see major (liberal) reasons for high taxation of them. However, if some of the revenue from the taxes was aimed at preventing people from smoking or assisting non-smokers who end up with smoke related medical problems, then it would make the tax look more fair.
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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Hubbub
Mongol of Moot Mute
Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 214
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Icelander]
#9934111 - 03/08/09 03:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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BOYCOTT THIS SHIT!!! Seriously, this is only puting more money in the hands of big tobacco! URGH! What a horrible tax.
Roll your owns are going to be really expensive now. How fuckin rediculous. I think Ill go one step further and grow my own.
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Edited by Hubbub (03/08/09 03:41 PM)
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