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Offlinerodfarva
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Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!)
    #9914918 - 03/05/09 03:58 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

The federal government just tried to pass a %64 tax on hand rolled cigars :crankey: 

Read about SCHIP

In addition, Michigan has simultaneously tried to move forward legislation to add a $1 per cigar tax, as well as banning smoking indoors. Most places ask you not to smoke cigars anyways, they have been highly limited to nightclubs and special cigar lounges as it is. In cali, they just tried to ban smoking outdoors!





I predict a potential ban on tobacco products if things keep moving in this direction :crankey:

If this type of legislation worries you, please educate yourself, and maybe help secure our freedom to light up.








Cigar rights


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
    #9914985 - 03/05/09 05:04 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

I'll support your freedom to smoke as long as you support my freedom to not have to breath your smoke. If that means requiring you to go outside, so be it :shrug:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915009 - 03/05/09 05:25 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I'll support your freedom to smoke as long as you support my freedom to not have to breath your smoke. If that means requiring you to go outside, so be it :shrug:




If i smoke in a cigar store, or at a club that has designated it alright to smoke- you can easily avoid being around it.

People should be free to be away from smoke, i dont like being around it at all times.
If you want to smoke you should be able to go to a certain place and enjoy some tobaccos.


This thread is about taxes, and freedom to enjoy tobacco. Do you have anything to add to that?

Are there any freedoms the government has taken away from you that relate to this?
perhaps the war on drugs?
I didnt start this in the pub because i want any discussion about this to pertain to the political battle
against tobacco. Not your personal feelings or anecdotes. :shrug:

They arnt trying to protect non smokers, they are trying to ban tobacco!

In my first post, read how i said they tried to outlaw smoking outside in one state already!
There are places they have baned smoking on golf courses.

For fucks sake, how does that bother anyone? It is clearly an attack on tobacco as a whole.
Dont let the government take away freedom, even if you dont like the smoke.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915031 - 03/05/09 05:51 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I'll support your freedom to smoke as long as you support my freedom to not have to breath your smoke. If that means requiring you to go outside, so be it :shrug:




No smoking in bars or restaurants here in Chicago.

Greatest law ever.

I fucking love it.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9915069 - 03/05/09 06:22 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
No smoking in bars or restaurants here in Chicago.

Greatest law ever.

I fucking love it.




Is it legal to have bars specifically for smokers, in Chicago?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915083 - 03/05/09 06:28 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I'll support your freedom to smoke as long as you support my freedom to not have to breath your smoke. If that means requiring you to go outside, so be it :shrug:




I'd rather support the owner of the business being able to choose whether smoking will or will not be allowed in his or her business.

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Redstorm]
    #9915150 - 03/05/09 06:56 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

That was the case here too, and most pub owners allowed smoking indoors. That all changed when a bar maid got lung cancer, despite never having smoked. The doctors said it was caused by second-hand smoke. People then questioned whether it really should be up to the business owner, since he's not the one who has to suffer the consequences of his choice. The government then started a long process of banning smoking in pubs, restaraunts, etc.

I remember when the laws started coming in, and I could come home from the pub without smelling like smoke. Such a relief.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915171 - 03/05/09 07:07 AM (15 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
That was the case here too, and most pub owners allowed smoking indoors. That all changed when a bar maid got lung cancer, despite never having smoked. The doctors said it was caused by second-hand smoke. People then questioned whether it really should be up to the business owner, since he's not the one who has to suffer the consequences of his choice. The government then started a long process of banning smoking in pubs, restaraunts, etc.

I remember when the laws started coming in, and I could come home from the pub without smelling like smoke. Such a relief.




you seem to be arguing in favor of banning smoking in public am i right?

Ahh never mind..

This thread is for people who are concerned with preserving the rights of SMOKERS.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
    #9915195 - 03/05/09 07:14 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

I don't necessarily care about the rights of smokers, as I'm not sure that they have the right to smoke in public places.

I'm much more concerned about the right of business owners to determine what is or is not allowed to occur in their establishment(s).

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
    #9915238 - 03/05/09 07:24 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

rodfarva said:
you seem to be arguing in favor of banning smoking in public am i right?

Ahh never mind..

This thread is for people who are concerned with preserving the rights of SMOKERS.




Well, all I'm saying is that I've benefited from the smoking ban. I'm happy for you to campaign for smokers' rights, but I won't be joining you :smile:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915241 - 03/05/09 07:25 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
That was the case here too, and most pub owners allowed smoking indoors. That all changed when a bar maid got lung cancer, despite never having smoked. The doctors said it was caused by second-hand smoke. People then questioned whether it really should be up to the business owner, since he's not the one who has to suffer the consequences of his choice. The government then started a long process of banning smoking in pubs, restaraunts, etc.

I remember when the laws started coming in, and I could come home from the pub without smelling like smoke. Such a relief.




And this may be the underlying idea behind taxing cigars and tobacco.  To help offset the societal cost of smoking.

I don't care if you smoke, but I do care if I'm on the same health insurance plan as you, and you get cancer.

The obvious issue is where to draw the line.  We certainly can't tax all adverse behaviors, but its not a bad idea in theory.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
    #9915359 - 03/05/09 08:25 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

This tax is crazy.  I can barely afford a decent cigar as it is.  The government has no right to uses taxes as leverage to change my lifestyle.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: rodfarva]
    #9915368 - 03/05/09 08:27 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Let's see......

1. Many smokers aren't considerate of those around them.
2. Many smokers seem to think the world is their ashtray.
3. Tobacco products generally stink.
4. Tobacco products raise the cost of health care for those of us smart enough to not use them.

Looks to me like smokers are their own worst enemies. No help from me.

As a matter of fact, the level of taxes should reflect the amount necessary to fund the health issues caused by tobacco.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9915412 - 03/05/09 08:42 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
As a matter of fact, the level of taxes should reflect the amount necessary to fund the health issues caused by tobacco.




:eek:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9915422 - 03/05/09 08:44 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Let's see......

1. Many smokers aren't considerate of those around them.
2. Many smokers seem to think the world is their ashtray.
3. Tobacco products generally stink.
4. Tobacco products raise the cost of health care for those of us smart enough to not use them.

Looks to me like smokers are their own worst enemies. No help from me.

As a matter of fact, the level of taxes should reflect the amount necessary to fund the health issues caused by tobacco.




Your anecdotes and personal conjecture dont belong in this forum.

1. many people exposed to second hand smoke never develop cancer.
2. there are many considerate smokers who take care of the environment
3. some people find the smell of fine tobacco delightful

Do you see where im going?

As a mater of fact taxes do not fund health care in America. What point where you trying to make exactly?
If cancer didnt exist the health care system in the US would still be fucked because its been capitalized
upon by the HMO's and the private insurance lobby. They would find another way to charge just as much.
Lets say there was a way for smokers to fund their excess health costs, what would it save who ever made that argument?

I dont know anyone who isnt on some large company's conglomerate insurance thats afforded to them as a benefit.
Does anyone here PAY for %100 of their insurance?

If yes, do you really think you'll be paying them less if tobacco costs are eliminated?
They will continue charging you just as much.


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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9915423 - 03/05/09 08:45 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

pussys that cant deal with a little smoke:rolleyes::hst:


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yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zouden]
    #9915506 - 03/05/09 09:12 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I'll support your freedom to smoke as long as you support my freedom to not have to breath your smoke. If that means requiring you to go outside, so be it :shrug:




Does that mean I can compel you to wear deodorant?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9915519 - 03/05/09 09:15 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

Didn't know his pits were a health hazard.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: Icelander]
    #9915568 - 03/05/09 09:33 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

The research is still pending.  Meanwhile, haven't you ever thought you were going to suffocate when some pink- haired dowager got on the elevator with that hideous perfume they all seem to wear?  That death seemed much more immediate and likely when I was a kid than anything from a cigarette.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Please support Cigar smokers rights in the US (cigarette smokers too!) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9915591 - 03/05/09 09:39 AM (15 years, 27 days ago)

I really don't care if people smoke themselves to death. I think they should in fact and also there's the fact that many people who smoke don't die from it. I think we should have the right to put whatever the fuck we want in our bodies.  I don't hang out in bars or wherever most people who smoke go so it doesn't really effect me. Anyway I like the look of a smoke filled room. I used to play poker on weekends with about a dozen people and we all smoked like crazy and it looked really cool. Kind of like the end of the world or somethin.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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