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OfflineHubbub
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Registered: 02/24/09
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WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!!
    #9877741 - 02/27/09 02:47 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Here it is once again. What we've all been waiting for.

ATTENTION!
This is a theory and has absolutely no scientific or factual basis. That being said...

WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!!

Without the machines we will lose our currency and use for money. Mostly because the government will fall and lose all their power. There will be no more laws, no more rules, and your protection will be provided by your friends and family. We will trade our individual goods and services for other individual goods and services. The people are now in power and govern themselvs. Living natural and free as we were ment to be. You will awake from your house you had built yourself and walk outside. The entire town is outside. Theres people BBQin, people playing music, conversing, using ethneobotanicals, and etc. We will practice the traditions of our ancestors. We will have become more united. We no longer think as much and use only our minds. We will develope enhanced instincts and live life free from ourselvs. When the spirit joins with earth again, we will never be lonely. We must Destroy The Machines!!!

What about safety?

It's hard these days with all the niceties we've become accustomed to, to think of life as being more pleasant without the machines, but it would be more what it should be. Some people seem to think that everyone would go crazy, but that is absurd. We'd have to work together to survive.

Machines promote solitary life styles. Alot of crimes are committed by people living solitary lives. Living a solitary life is completely unnatural and without machines we would have to reunite with one another.

With no electricity what would there be to steel or hurt anyone over anymore? People in large cities will undoubtedly suffer, but in smaller towns much would not change. People are just scared of one another thinking we'd all huddle up in small groups and kill everyone else which is nonsense. The laws dont make our moral standards, that is our own perceptions. Everyone would feel powerless in that situation and we would join together. We would become like family and we would provide portection for each other. We will develop trust and understanding.

To live without machines would take us back to a pre-industrialization type lifestyle, which we need to adopt unless population is reduced to a much smaller fraction of what it is. Our present lifestyle at our population levels will bring about an end to all life as we have known it on this planet in a quicker time than we would like to think. Imagine living in harmony with the Earth and the other living things; being directly responsible for your survival instead of working for some assholes that make you piss in a cup so you can earn your money.

But what about modern Medicine and Science?

Manny pharmaceutical drugs are mimics of natural herbs, but pharmaceutical companies cannot patent herbs. So they make their own version of it in the lab, along with chemical extracts needed to make it more like the herb they are stealing from so they can make lots of money, ironically making it more like the potential poison that creates the side effects you hear about in the ads and in the small print in magazines.

The basic laws of physics were thought up by philosophers with no real use of machines long ago. The progress we are makeing in science is futile becuase we will never truely understand the nature of reality in this technological manner. Everything we find out only brings more possibilities. These things bring no conclusion, only infinite potentiality, and nothing but confusion

While math wizards are trying to design the new cell phone they are also crafting the future of advance technological warfare. There is not a SINGLE positive to the increasing development in technology. We Must Destroy The Machines!!!

Do you want to become a Cyborg???

If machines do not kill us all in the near future then technology will develope greatly. The machines will become so intelligent, so advanced and so abundant in our daily lives that we ourselvs will not beable to keep up. We will then start advancing ourselvs. We will bind our brains with complex machinery to become faster and stronger. We will become one with the machines as Cyborgs. Our only meaning in life as Cyborgs will be to further and further advance ourselvs into the empty abyss intill were all just one big fuckin disk drive! We might as well rip out our souls and shit on them. Meaning will be lost. Love will be gone. Our warm flesh replaced by cold steel. All these machines are just making us more dependent on them. Making us week and further seperating ourselvs from our source and eachother. Do you wish logic over feeling? It is only a matter of time before the Human Being is also artificial.

Still not Convinced???

The Picture is bigger than you think. Machines sepperate us from eachother and ourselvs. They make us week and lonely. They keep us inside, they distract us, and they can absorb all our focus and energy without giving anything in return. They not only polute the environment, but they polute the human soul. They keep us categorized and classified. They help us loose ourselvs. They keep us distant and irrelavent. Nothing is more unnatural. They encourage the opposite of intuition and instinct making us dig deeper into the part of the mind that is only filled with potentiality and no one simple conclusion. This way of thinking brings only confusion. They make us dwell on trivial matters of materialistic non sense that will in no way shape or form mold a human being, make him happy, or provide any sort of wisdom what so ever. They are pulling us further and further from nature, our natural selvs, and cageing us in a box. Destroy the Machines!!!

But How??? This is not possible, is it???

The society I wish to create will inevitably be forced upon us in the future, but in a much more violent manner. It will take more than just one person to change our fate. It will take more than a group of people. It will require an entire army! And I ask of you to just spread your knewly found knowledge about the machines. Let other people see how they have enslaved us. If you yourself have not seen than you have not even given it any thought. It is time we start thinking with the soul, not against it, and not to question it. It is the dark side of the complex mind we have come to acquire. This Golden Age is not impossible, it is inevitable. See that fighting is good. We must all learn to fight. Fight against those who oppose us and fight for ourselvs. This my friends is a war for humanity! A war for our spirits! A war for freedom! The ones who have built an empire with the machines will not see it our way. It is easy to believe and when we have all seen the light we will be forced to fight. This must be done in global syncrasy and will be the greatest revolution in mankind. Spread my knowledge and the time will come. Destroy the Machines!

Wait...isnt it human nature to advance technology?

That is not true. There are still alot of primitive tribes that exist throughout the world with absolutely no machines. This technological era we live in is fairly new and became very quickly. Its been maybe 200-300 years out of thousands. We have only been developing tools before then which I have no problem with. (I realize that the definition of tools and machines are very similar, but I believe you know what I mean when I say machine. Advanced Technology) Im not sure how all this came to be so fast. Somehow we have turned on the wrong path. We are very destructive and we are completely out of balance. I dont believe that is our true nature.

Perhaps there was once a day where some city like Atlantis did exist where people dwelled in spiritual issues rather than technological advancements. Who knows what is truely possible when an entire civilization studies in the advancement of only body, mind and self.

Final Word:

We become weaker when we keep giving away our power to technology, in other words, to external objects. We then become dependent on these objects and soon get to the point where we can’t do anything for ourselves. We also become habituated to obeying outside authority. Instead of doing this, the guiding principle of the new consciousness is to operate from our own authority. This means following the Spirit without hesitation.

Our next leap in consciousness will be the mastery of divine expression. We will know that we have everything we need inside of us.

Watch this Short Film!:



Destroy The Machines!
Their only will is to destroy us.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/27/09 03:10 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9877784 - 02/27/09 02:51 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Fun! Whether true or not I basically agree with you.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineCascadian
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9877847 - 02/27/09 02:58 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9877997 - 02/27/09 03:13 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I have no scientific or factual basis either , but i say dont waste your time..

They will be rendered inoperable whether we want it to happen or not.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: jivJaN]
    #9878277 - 02/27/09 03:43 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
I have no scientific or factual basis either , but i say dont waste your time..

They will be rendered inoperable whether we want it to happen or not.




:nonono:  Any reality paradigm that excludes the dawning of the Age of the Machine from the envisioning of ascension into a new collective consciousness is missing half the picture.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9878372 - 02/27/09 03:52 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I dont think it has anything to do with a paradigm...

Its the Sun :wink:


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: jivJaN]
    #9878400 - 02/27/09 03:55 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said: Its the Sun :wink:




Would you mind elaborating?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9878480 - 02/27/09 04:03 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

The Suns activity is changing..
It will make any form of electrical devices inoperable.

Power outage ! :tongue:


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: jivJaN]
    #9878498 - 02/27/09 04:04 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I doubt however this is going to happen right away. We still have the opportunity to wreak havoc for some time yet.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9878531 - 02/27/09 04:07 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

hmmm... maybe people are ready for something like this.
I posted this on another forum several months ago and got horribly flamed for it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9878542 - 02/27/09 04:09 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I could flame you a little if you like. V is gone.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9878553 - 02/27/09 04:10 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

flame on


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9878576 - 02/27/09 04:12 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

You dirty so and so.:mad2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9878657 - 02/27/09 04:21 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

6000 years of history, and 100 years of machines. I don't think machines are the problem.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Rahz]
    #9878660 - 02/27/09 04:21 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Oh I agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9878723 - 02/27/09 04:28 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Well, I dont believe in our 6,000 year or more history have we ever caused thousands of species of animals to become extinct and I dont believe we have ever been confronted with the fact that in the near future we may destroy the entire planet and turn it into Mars.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/27/09 04:29 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9878740 - 02/27/09 04:29 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

That's as much or more a population problem as a technology problem.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9878756 - 02/27/09 04:31 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Technology created over population. Population didnt create technology.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/27/09 04:32 PM)

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9878782 - 02/27/09 04:35 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Technology is the only thing which has created the means for voluntary population control.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9878844 - 02/27/09 04:43 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I could flame you a little if you like. V is gone.:satansmoking:




Note how everyone has been fairly nice without a hall monitor?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9878848 - 02/27/09 04:44 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
Technology created over population. Population didnt create technology.




True that it did speed it up quite a bit. But you are going to have to consider all technology "the machine" including the spear and the bow and the stick not to mention taming fire. So do we have go go back up into the trees?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9879071 - 02/27/09 05:17 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

No, Im not talking about spears, canoes, bows, and wheels. Im talking about advanced machinery here. Cars, factories, television, computers, etc.

Im not talking about rocks and sticks tied together with sharpened ends. Those are not machines. A machine is a tool, but tools are not machines. I adressed this in the original post.

Anyway, I dont believe there is any population control. Maybe in China, but if the world was like China it would have ended already.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/27/09 05:18 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9879077 - 02/27/09 05:18 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
No, Im not talking about spears, canoes, bows, and wheels. Im talking about advanced machinery here. Cars, factories, television, computers, etc.




Are you also arguing for the dismantling of hospitals and advanced medical technology?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9879082 - 02/27/09 05:19 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Nah, I don't think people will follow you. :smile:

Edited by Kukaracha (02/27/09 05:20 PM)

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9879113 - 02/27/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Yes of course. Advanced machinery. ALL modern and advanced machinery. That doesnt wipe out all medicine though and it doesnt even wipe out surgery. The ancients practiced surgery with just sharpened instruments and a natural anesthesia.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9879125 - 02/27/09 05:29 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Yeah, then I must disagree with you.  Abolishing technology is impossible; people don't want to give up their material comforts and backwards regression is almost never successful.  I wouldn't want to live back in ancient times when people were convinced spirits were the cause of diseases and the concept of germs was unheard-of.

Try to focus more on improving our lives with the possibilities of technology than decrying its negatives.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879146 - 02/27/09 05:32 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

If humans enjoy love then why would they make machines such that it would end love?

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9879153 - 02/27/09 05:33 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Without technology, you wouldn't even have the ability to be posting this. No thank you. I entirely enjoy my conveniences. In fact, I would fight actively against anyone trying to do away with them.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9879244 - 02/27/09 05:49 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

I wouldn't want to live back in ancient times when people were convinced spirits were the cause of diseases and the concept of germs was unheard-of.





How about modern times where people believe that praying can effect disease?


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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879290 - 02/27/09 05:56 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

yeah, I think the ancient peoples are largely misunderstood. They were not cave men. We are no smarter than they were.

I think they had a different way with words and a different way of explaining things. Obviously they didnt have the extended vocabulary and classification system as we do, so an evil spirit could have been their way of describing an illness.

Stress can cause cancer. An evil spirit can possess you. I think its just different ways to say basically the same thing.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9879350 - 02/27/09 06:04 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Try to focus more on improving our lives with the possibilities of technology than decrying its negatives.



:yesnod:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: zouden]
    #9879452 - 02/27/09 06:19 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

We go through this at least once a month here: People using a tool to decry the same tool. Doesn't get any more ironic and hypocritical than that.


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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: zouden]
    #9879558 - 02/27/09 06:28 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

The machines are the extension of the left side of our consciousness. The masculine side, the intellectual and logical side. This masculine aspect of ourselvs is so dominant today that it over powers the female side of our consciousness. The right side, the emotional side, the compassionate side, the spiritual side and the sensitive side. Does the suppression of women for thousands of years have anything to do with this? Maybe.

Well, if you havent noticed our society promotes insensitivity. It suppresses emotion and compassion. This is coming from personal experiences and many people will agree with me on this.

We need to bring the emotion, the spirit, the compassion and the heart back into our culture. I dont believe it will beable to fully sprout within the confines of this industrial society. And not only is it killing the human spirit, but its destroying the Earth. Its killing innocent life and deteriorating the atmosphere.

Do you wish logic over feeling?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9879627 - 02/27/09 06:36 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

and many people will agree with me on this.




And many people will disagree with you on this. Sounds like a consensus.

Quote:

We need to bring the emotion, the spirit, the compassion and the heart back into our culture.



You are the spokesperson for all mankind?


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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9882863 - 02/28/09 08:32 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

yes. :eatingout:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9883124 - 02/28/09 09:46 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)


No, Im not talking about spears, canoes, bows, and wheels. Im talking about advanced machinery here. Cars, factories, television, computers, etc.


Do you not see a problem here. One thing lead to another and without the bow and spear then the machine would not have been. You will need to somehow stop humans from creating tools or having the desire to otherwise it will just be a matter of time until the machine is back.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9883461 - 02/28/09 10:39 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Monkeys and birds use things that you had quoted as "the machine."

I dont believe machines ever needed to be created. There are still places where people live without machines. Places that dont use currency. I think the invention of money fueled their creation and they are a product of our seperation from the natural world. The place I call reality.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/28/09 10:41 AM)

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9883499 - 02/28/09 10:45 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Why not move to one of those places then?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Redstorm]
    #9883551 - 02/28/09 10:53 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I think we all know the answer to that one.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9883773 - 02/28/09 11:25 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I live in a small town in Arkansas with a population of 200 people. There is no hospital and there is no police station. There isnt anything except a single paved raod, a small gas station, a post office and a small little school.

If the machines were destroyed tomorrow it would have no effect on this entire area.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9883865 - 02/28/09 11:38 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Other than you would have no electricity, running water, or the computer you are conveniently typing that message on.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Redstorm]
    #9884326 - 02/28/09 01:00 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.

Im using a computer... obviously, but I dont think that is relevant to the discussion of this topic. I could easily not use a computer.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9884346 - 02/28/09 01:04 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.

Im using a computer... obviously, but I dont think that is relevant to the discussion of this topic. I could easily not use a computer.




So go out and live in the wilderness.  Why prevent other people from using technology that improves their lives?


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9884461 - 02/28/09 01:24 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.

Im using a computer... obviously, but I dont think that is relevant to the discussion of this topic. I could easily not use a computer.




OK I'm calling bullshit. You may not need a computer or electricity etc. but you sure as hell have proved you want them in your life. If you did not you would not.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9884503 - 02/28/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

For someone who doesn't like technology, you sure are posting a lot. =)


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[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9884598 - 02/28/09 01:50 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
Machines promote solitary life styles. Alot of crimes are committed by people living solitary lives. Living a solitary life is completely unnatural and without machines we would have to reunite with one another.





I think we become more united the more data we transfer between each other. With internet there is transfered a lot of data between different countries and different cultures. This helps to unite different countries and cultures.

Quote:

Hubbub said:
Do you want to become a Cyborg???





Yes please. I would love to get a cellphone implanted into my brain that communicates directly to my neurons.

Edited by Zanthius (02/28/09 01:58 PM)

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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9884622 - 02/28/09 01:56 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.




Perhaps you don't need technology in order to survive, but I prefer to live with technology, and not like a monkey.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9884767 - 02/28/09 02:15 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.

Im using a computer... obviously, but I dont think that is relevant to the discussion of this topic. I could easily not use a computer.




If you believe life would be preferable without "machines" and you have the ability to not use them, then why do you continue?

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Redstorm]
    #9884810 - 02/28/09 02:23 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Read the damn link I posted - If you really want to change the system you need to start sending mailbombs.

Quote:

THE 'BAD' PARTS OF TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM THE 'GOOD' PARTS

121. A further reason why industrial society cannot be reformed in favor of freedom is that modern technology is a unified system in which all parts are dependent on one another. You can't get rid of the "bad" parts of technology and retain only the "good" parts. Take modern medicine, for example. Progress in medical science depends on progress in chemistry, physics, biology, computer science and other fields. Advanced medical treatments require expensive, high-tech equipment that can be made available only by a technologically progressive, economically rich society. Clearly you can't have much Progress in medicine without the whole technological system and everything that goes with it.

122. Even if medical progress could be maintained without the rest of the technological system, it would by itself bring certain evils. Suppose for example that a cure for diabetes is discovered. People with a genetic tendency to diabetes will then be able to survive and reproduce as well as anyone else. Natural selection against genes for diabetes will cease and such genes will spread throughout the population. (This may be occurring to some extent already, since diabetes, while not curable, can be controlled through use of insulin.) The same thing will happen with many other diseases susceptibility to which is affected by genetic degradation of the population. The only solution will be some sort of eugenics program or extensive genetic engineering of human beings, so that man in the future will no longer be a creation of nature, or of chance, or of God (depending on your religious or philosophical opinions), but a manufactured product.

123. If you think that big government interferes in your life too much NOW, just wait till the government starts regulating the genetic constitution of your children. Such regulation will inevitably follow the introduction of genetic engineering of human beings, because the consequences of unregulated genetic engineering would be disastrous. [19]

124. The usual response to such concerns is to talk about "medical ethics." But a code of ethics would not serve to protect freedom in the face of medical progress; it would only make matters worse. A code of ethics applicable to genetic engineering would be in effect a means of regulating the genetic constitution of human beings. Somebody (probably the upper-middle class, mostly) would decide that such and such applications of genetic engineering were "ethical". and others were not, so that in effect they would be imposing their own values on the genetic constitution of the population at large. Even if a code of ethics were chosen on a completely democratic basis, the majority would be imposing their own values on any minorities who might have a different idea of what constituted an "ethical" use of genetic engineering. The only code of ethics that would truly protect freedom would be one that prohibited ANY genetic engineering of human beings, and you can be sure that no such code will ever be applied in a technological society. No code that reduced genetic engineering to a minor role could stand up for long, because the temptation presented by the immense power of biotechnology would be irresistible, especially since to the majority of people many of its applications will seem obviously and unequivocally good (eliminating physical and mental diseases, giving people the abilities they need to get along in today's world). Inevitably, genetic engineering will be used extensively, but only in ways consistent with the needs of the industrial-technological system. [20]
TECHNOLOGY IS A MORE POWERFUL SOCIAL FORCE THAN THE ASPIRATION FOR FREEDOOM

125. It is not possible to make a LASTING compromise between technology and freedom, because technology is by far the more powerful social force and continually encroaches on freedom through REPEATED compromises. Imagine the case of two neighbors, each of whom at the outset owns the same amount of land, but one of whom is more powerful than the other. The powerful one demands a piece of the other's land. The weak one refuses. The powerful one says, "OK, let's compromise. Give me half of what I asked." The weak one has little choice but to give in. Some time later the powerful neighbor demands another piece of land, again there is a compromise, and so forth. By forcing a long series of compromises on the weaker man, the powerful one eventually gets all of his land. So it goes in the conflict between technology and freedom.

126. Let us explain why technology is a more powerful social force than the aspiration for freedom.

127. A technological advance that appears not to threaten freedom often turns out to threaten it very seriously later on. For example, consider motorized transport. A walking man formerly could go where he pleased, go at his own pace without observing any traffic regulations, and was independent of technological support-systems. When motor vehicles were introduced they appeared to increase man's freedom. They took no freedom away from the walking man, no one had to have an automobile if he didn't want one, and anyone who did choose to buy an automobile could travel much faster and farther than a walking man. But the introduction of motorized transport soon changed society in such a way as to restrict greatly man's freedom of locomotion. When automobiles became numerous, it became necessary to regulate their use extensively. In a car, especially im densely populated areas, one cannot just go where one likes at one's own pace one's movement is governed by the flow of traffic and by various traffic laws. One is tied down by various obligations: license requirements, driver test, renewing registration, insurance, maintenance required for safety, monthly payments on purchase price. Moreover, the use of motorized transport is no longer optional. Since the introduction of motorized transport the arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of employment, shopping areas and recreational opportunities, so that they HAVE TO depend on the automobile for transportation. Or else they must use public transportation, in which case they have even less control over their own movement than when driving a car. Even the walker's freedom is now greatly restricted. In the city he continually has to stop to wait for traffic lights that are designed mainly to serve auto traffic. In the country, motor traffic makes it dangerous and unpleasant to walk along the highway. (Note this important point that we have just illustrated with the case of motorized transport: When a new item of technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept or not as he chooses, it does not necessarily REMAIN optional. In many cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.)

128. While technological progress AS A WHOLE continually narrows our sphere of freedom, each new technical advance CONSIDERED BY ITSELF appears to be desirable. Electricity, indoor plumbing, rapid long-distance communications ... how could one argue against any of these things, or against any other of the innumerable technical advances that have made modern society? It would have been absurd to resist the introduction of the telephone, for example. It offered many advantages and no disadvantages. Yet, as we explained in paragraphs 59-76, all these technical advances taken together have created a world in which the average man's fate is no longer in his own hands or in the hands of his neighbors and friends, but in those of politicians, corporation executives and remote, anonymous technicians and bureaucrats whom he as an individual has no power to influence. [21] The same process will continue in the future. Take genetic engineering, for example. Few people will resist the introduction of a genetic technique that eliminates a hereditary disease. It does no apparent harm and prevents.much suffering. Yet a large number of genetic improvements taken together will make the human being into an engineered product rather than a free creation of chance (or of God, or whatever, depending on your religious beliefs).

129. Another reason why technology is such a powerful social force is that, within the context of a given society, technological progress marches in only one direction; it can never be reversed. Once a technical innovation has been introduced, people usually become dependent on it, so that they can never again do without it, unless it is replaced by some still more advanced innovation. Not only do people become dependent as individuals on a new item of technology, but, even more, the system as a whole becomes dependent on it. (Imagine what would happen to the system today if computers, for example, were eliminated.) Thus the system can move in only one direction, toward greater technologization. Technology repeatedly forces freedom to take a step back, but technology can never take a step back -- short of the overthrow of the whole technological system.

130. TechnoIogy advances with great rapidity and threatens freedom at many different points at the same time (crowding, rules and regulations, increasing dependence of individuals on large organizations, propaganda and other psychological techniques, genetic engineering, invasion of privacy through surveillance devices and computers, etc.). To hold back any ONE of the threats to freedom would require a long and difficult social struggle. Those who want to protect freedom are overwhelmed by the sheer number of new attacks and the rapidity with which they develop, hence they become apathetic and no longer resist. To fight each of the threats separately would be futile. Success can be hoped for only by fighting the technological system as a whole; but that is revolution, not reform.

131. Technicians (we use this term in its broad sense to describe all those who perform a specialized task that requires training) tend to be so involved in their work (their surrogate activity) that when a conflict arises between their technical work and freedom, they almost always decide in favor of their technical work. This is obvious in the case of scientists, but it also appears elsewhere: Educators humanitarian groups, conservation organizations do not hesitate to use propaganda or other psychological techniques to help them achieve their laudable ends. Corporations and government agencies, when they find it useful, do not hesitate to collect information about individuals without regard to their privacy. Law enforcement agencies are frequently inconvenienced by the constitutional rights of suspects and often of completely innocent persons, and they do whatever they can do legally (or sometimes illegally) to restrict or circumvent those rights. Most of these educators, government officials and law officers believe in freedom, privacy and constitutional rights, but when these conflict with their work, they usually feel that their work is more important.

132. It is well known that people generally work better and more persistently when striving for a reward than when attempting to avoid a punishment or negative outcome. Scientists and other technicians are motivated mainly by the rewards they get through their work. But those who oppose technological invasions of freedom are working to avoid a negative outcome, consequently there are few who work persistently and well at this discouraging task. If reformers ever achieved a signal victory that seemed to set up a solid barrier against further erosion of freedom through technical progress, most would tend to relax and turn their attention to more agreeable pursuits. But the scientists would remain busy in their laboratories, and technology as it progresses would find ways, in spite of any barriers, to exert more and more control over individuals and make them always more dependent on the system.

133. No social arrangements, whether laws, institutions, customs or ethical codes, can provide permanent protection against technology. History shows that all social arrangements are transitory; they all change or break down eventually. But technological advances are permanent within the context of a given civilization. Suppose for example that it were possible to arrive at some social arrangements that would prevent genetic engineering from being applied to human beings, or prevent it from being applied in such a way as to threaten freedom and dignity. Still, the technology would remain waiting. Sooner or later the social arrangement would break down. Probably sooner, given the pace of change in our society. Then genetic engineering would begin to invade our sphere of freedom. and this invasion would be irreversible (short of a breakdown of technological civilization itself). Any illusions about achieving anything permanent through social arrangements should be dispelled by what is currently happening with environmental legislation. A few years ago its seemed that there were secure legal barriers preventing at least SOME of the worst forms of environmental degradation. A change in the political wind, and those barriers begin to crumble.

134. For all of the foregoing reasons, technology is a more powerful social force than the aspiration for freedom. But this statement requires an important qualification. It appears that during the next several decades the industrial-technological system will be undergoing severe stresses due to economic and environmental problems, and especially due to problems of human behavior (alienation, rebellion, hostility, a variety of social and psychological difficulties). We hope that the stresses through which the system is likely to pass will cause it to break down, or at least will weaken it sufficiently so that a revolution against it becomes possible. If such a revolution occurs and is successful, then at that particular moment the aspiration for freedom will have proved more powerful than technology.

135. In paragraph 125 we used an analogy of a weak neighbor who is left destitute by a strong neighbor who takes all his land by forcing on him a series of compromises. But suppose now that the strong neighbor gets sick, so tha he is unable to defend himself. The weak neighbor can force the strong one to give him his land back, or he can kill him. If he lets the strong man survive and only forces him to give the land back, he is a fool, because when the strong man gets well he will again take all the land for himself. The only sensible alternative for the weaker man is to kill the strong one while he has the chance. In the same way, while the industrial system is sick we must destroy it. If we compromise with it and let it recover from its sickness, it will eventually wipe out all of our freedom.



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Cascadian]
    #9884859 - 02/28/09 02:34 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

No thanks.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Cascadian]
    #9884868 - 02/28/09 02:37 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Cascadian said:
Read the damn link I posted - If you really want to change the system you need to start sending mailbombs.




Incredibly intelligent rhetoric, but his attempt at changing history was infantile.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Redstorm]
    #9884885 - 02/28/09 02:41 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Hubbub said:
I dont need any of those things to survive. I have plenty of wood to burn and use for heat, which I do. And I have a big ol' stream behind my house which I think may actually be more healthy than my tap water.

Im using a computer... obviously, but I dont think that is relevant to the discussion of this topic. I could easily not use a computer.




If you believe life would be preferable without "machines" and you have the ability to not use them, then why do you continue?




Heres the thing, because I dont wish to live alone. I would love to live in the woods, but not by myself. Not alone with no human contact. I am not looking for isolation.

And I will respond to the link once I finish reading it.


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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9885422 - 02/28/09 04:10 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

it's the fact that people ARE machines
that cause the problems you blame on devices

in short there is no way that I could disagree with your views more than I do


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There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

Edited by arainbow (02/28/09 04:12 PM)

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9885930 - 02/28/09 05:34 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Isin't this the philosophy behind the Amish?

I agree, but I'm not willing to give up my technology. My overcrowded Island has no wilderness to live in and be free.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9886163 - 02/28/09 06:28 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Well, apart from the gas station and post office closing, and the school having to teach without electricity. And you'd have no refrigeration or Shroomery. Or running water.

But yeah, no effect apart from that.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: zouden]
    #9886185 - 02/28/09 06:31 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

and there would be only enough food for about 5% of the worlds population


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: arainbow]
    #9886583 - 02/28/09 08:00 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Of course their are negatives with either scenario. Niether is ideal, but its fun to think about.


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Edited by Hubbub (02/28/09 08:01 PM)

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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: arainbow]
    #9886629 - 02/28/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Lets not even talk about small pox, which, if anyone here has ever had a basic science course, would probably have killed mostly everyone posting here as a child.

Technology is just an medium. You think congressmen, businessmen, and world leaders wouldn't have an impact on your life anyway?

If you want to live with people, you have to understand that we're all a bunch of fucked up uh...people. I don't know about you, but I sort of figure that, from previous examples through history, this shit would happen with or without electricity.

I have news for you, humans aren't the only creature that practices the art of controlling one another. We have the added complexity of the ego giving us the drive to do so needlessly, but that problem is long standing and came along way back when.

Lets take a look at the Grey Wolf:

"Wolves acting unusually, such as epileptic pups or thrashing adults crippled by a trap or a gunshot, are usually killed by other members of their own pack." -Seems like a reasonable alternative to hospital treatment due to technology, right?

Lets look at bonobos:

"The popular image of the Bonobo as a "peaceful ape" has come under fire by observations of artificially-confined populations. Accounts exist of Bonobos confined in zoos mutilating one another and engaging in bullying. These incidents may be due to the practice in zoos of separating mothers and sons, which is contrary to their social organization in the wild. Bonobo society is dominated by females, and severing the lifelong alliance between mothers and their male offspring may make them vulnerable to female aggression. De Waal has warned of the danger of romanticizing Bonobos: "All animals are competitive by nature and cooperative only under specific circumstances" as well as writing that "When first writing about their behavior, I spoke of 'sex for peace' precisely because bonobos had plenty of conflicts. There would obviously be no need for peacemaking if they lived in perfect harmony". In marked contrast to the Common Chimpanzee there are no confirmed reports of lethal aggression between Bonobos, either in the wild or in captivity. The immature state of Bonobo research in the wild, compared to that of the Common Chimpanzee, however, means that lethal aggression between Bonobos could be discovered." -Huh? No technology, and yet they still have problems! HOW COULD THIS BE?

How about Chimps? They're like dumb, primitive humans.

"Recent observations in the wild indicate that the males among the related Common Chimpanzee communities are extraordinarily hostile to males from outside of the community. Parties of males 'patrol' for the unfortunate neighboring males who might be traveling alone, and attack those single males, often killing them." -Damn! That sounds a whole lot like military patrols without guns...who would have thought.


All of the quotes above were taken from various wiki articles about the animals they talk about. Google them, and they will be the first wiki article about each species.

For further explanation, http://www.ernestcline.com/dmd/


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9886826 - 02/28/09 08:45 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
I live in a small town in Arkansas with a population of 200 people. There is no hospital and there is no police station. There isnt anything except a single paved raod, a small gas station, a post office and a small little school.

If the machines were destroyed tomorrow it would have no effect on this entire area.



that explains a lot, I have heard about Arkansas before.



Anyway I think you may be suffering from a lack of adequate asphalt.

personally a lack of variety in paved surfaces makes my life as a rollerblader hell.
and we need lots of computers to keep bituminous materials on the roads.

everyone has to pitch in and keep on rolling.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9895149 - 03/02/09 07:40 AM (15 years, 20 days ago)

as much as some of us may want to,
we are not going "back"

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9895199 - 03/02/09 08:03 AM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Code:
I live in a small town in Arkansas with a population of 200 people. There is no hospital and there is no police station. There isnt anything except a single paved raod, a small gas station, a post office and a small little school.

If the machines were destroyed tomorrow it would have no effect on this entire area.



And does this place has a fundamentalist christian background too?

Just kidding. To me, the problems are not the machines, which are obviously part of our " destiny ", but the fact that they are new and that we are still an immature species even though we have been around for a very long time.

Consciousness is a pretty recent innovation as well as machines and as such there is a maturation process to go through in order for us to find an equilibrium both in consciousness and in the destiny we are building for ourselves through technological innovations.

You want to get rid of machines? Here's a tip for you, start be ridding every single human being of an imagination. Because technological innovations are the fruit of our minds, our imaginations and as such, I truely think that they are part of our future as a species, we just need time to learn how to balance ourselves between our imaginations and reality. Once this is achieved though, because humans, even though they act stupid, are incredibly intelligent beings, we might very well found ourselves inhabiting a perfectly balanced ecosystem where machines are in complete symbiosis with nature as we would too.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9897518 - 03/02/09 03:47 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

This technological era we live in is fairly new and became very quickly. Its been maybe 200-300 years out of thousands. We have only been developing tools before then which I have no problem with. (I realize that the definition of tools and machines are very similar, but I believe you know what I mean when I say machine. Advanced Technology) Im not sure how all this came to be so fast. Somehow we have turned on the wrong path. We are very destructive and we are completely out of balance.

Perhaps there was once a day where some city like Atlantis did exist where people dwelled in spiritual issues rather than technological advancements. Who knows what is truely possible when an entire civilization studies in the advancement of only body, mind and self.

We become weaker when we keep giving away our power to technology, in other words, to external objects. We then become dependent on these objects and soon get to the point where we can’t do anything for ourselves. We also become habituated to obeying outside authority. Instead of doing this, the guiding principle of the new consciousness is to operate from our own authority. This means following the Spirit without hesitation.

Our next leap in consciousness will be the mastery of divine expression. We will know that we have everything we need inside of us.




If something isnt done soon we will destroy ourselvs and a day without machines will be forced upon us, but in a MUCH more violent manner.

The current species extinction rate is estimated to exceed the natural or ‘background’ rate by. 100 to a 1000 times.

An estimated annual global CO2 emissions increased 35% from 1990 to 2006. Diesel emissions contribute to over 70% of the cancer risk from air pollution in the USA. According to the US-EPA, emissions from power plants contribute to over 2,800 lung cancer deaths and 38,200 heart attacks annually in the US.

More than 60 million gallons of oil enter the oceans every year. Plankton diversity has been observabley reduced by some 70%.

Poluted water, oceans, soil, atmosphere, diminishing plant and animal species and over population.

More than half of the life on this planet is now extinct and continueing to die.

We are killing ourselvs. Machines arent the solution, they are the problem. This isnt a step back, this is a step forward.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9897675 - 03/02/09 04:12 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

If something isnt done soon we will destroy ourselvs and a day without machines will be forced upon us, but in a MUCH more violent manner.


You say that as if it's a bad thing.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9897988 - 03/02/09 04:57 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

well... the economy collapsing due to natural disaster and the economy collapsing because poeple just decided not to use it anymore are two totally different things.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9901393 - 03/03/09 01:25 AM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

solstice said:

Consciousness is a pretty recent innovation...




Pardon? Please tell me I'm missing something.


--------------------
A human race with more highly developed spiritual capacities, with expanded consciousness of the depth and the incomprehensible wonder of being, would also have greater understanding of and better consideration for the biological and material foundation of life on this earth, Above all, for Western people with their hypertrophied rationality, the development and expansion of a direct, emotional experience of reality, unobstructed by words and concepts, would be of evolutionary significance.

Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined.

To fall in hell or soar angelic,
You need a pinch of psychedelic.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9903167 - 03/03/09 12:25 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

I got a better idea, instead of destroying the machines, how about we learn to control ourselves? It would be like sueing McDonalds for making you fat.. little do you realize it is yourself making your fat, and shutting down McDonalds will only make people go to Burger King.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9903200 - 03/03/09 12:33 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Then we must burn down Burger King.  And torch Wendy's.  Jack in the Box will be nothing but flaming rubble.  We must search out and uproot these foul dens of high cholesterol and raze them where they stand.  The golden arches are the mark of the Beast; engraining its foul nature further into your soul with every fry you force down your stinking gullets.  The Happy Meal enslaves our children when they are young and impressionable; the offer of minimum wage and easy work further binds them when they are job-searching teenagers; and by then the chains of quick, convenient, preservative-laden obesity are forever ensnared with our health and sanity.  Supersize me?  Anything but.

Viva la revolucion!


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9903205 - 03/03/09 12:35 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

There is an evil beast among us. This demon grows stronger by the day. It is a silent killer and has been distracting us. It wears manny masks and takes many of shapes. This demon has been feasting upon our souls for it has none of its own. It will soon kill us all or entrap us in its fury. We Must Destroy The Machines!!! Despose of modern technology! Annihilate all electricty and use of fossil fuels for this is what it feeds upon, becoming hungrier by the second. RAMPAGE!!!

Can we tame this beast? How exactly could that be done? It seems completely out of control and its got rabies. Time to put it down.


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Edited by Hubbub (03/03/09 12:49 PM)

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9903206 - 03/03/09 12:35 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

I fully agree with the above two posts.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9903418 - 03/03/09 01:09 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Then we must burn down Burger King.  And torch Wendy's.  Jack in the Box will be nothing but flaming rubble.  We must search out and uproot these foul dens of high cholesterol and raze them where they stand.  The golden arches are the mark of the Beast; engraining its foul nature further into your soul with every fry you force down your stinking gullets.  The Happy Meal enslaves our children when they are young and impressionable; the offer of minimum wage and easy work further binds them when they are job-searching teenagers; and by then the chains of quick, convenient, preservative-laden obesity are forever ensnared with our health and sanity.  Supersize me?  Anything but.

Viva la revolucion!




I bet all that typing and ranting gave you a man-sized appetite. Where do you want to go for lunch?


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9903432 - 03/03/09 01:11 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I bet all that typing and ranting gave you a man-sized appetite. Where do you want to go for lunch?




Hitting up Taco Bell shortly.  :drooling:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9903482 - 03/03/09 01:20 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

If there's anything wrong with the fast food culture, it's that there's really no good way to base insurance rates on what a person eats. But really, the sickness isn't found within the effects of fast food, it's within the cause.

I very rarely eat at those places, though when I was younger I had no problem with it, just like I had no problem downing a 12 pack along with some jello shooters.

I live by my own personal standards, and it seems everyone else does as well, for better or worse. It just seems to me, when we talk about destroying some aspect of culture, we're talking big brother. And I wonder if this is the same crowd that wants to legalize all drugs. Does each person secretly want to force society to conduct itself in a specific manner, or do we have the ability to live and let die?

If we are "one", what does that mean when it comes to personal standards? Could it be, there is a hidden evil in oneness? One ego?


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rahz

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Rahz]
    #9903793 - 03/03/09 02:12 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Theres no ego in oneness. That doesnt even make sense. The only ego in that scenario is Spirit and you cant go wrong following Spirit.

The worst thing about fast food is that healthy food is WAY more expensive!! That doesnt even make sense. How could natural foods be more expensive than the other stuff?

DOWN WITH THE OLD EMPIRE!!!!!!!!!


I dont necessarily believe in Indigo Children, but I do in what they represent. We are the indigo children!


--------------------

Edited by Hubbub (03/03/09 02:29 PM)

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9904001 - 03/03/09 02:49 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

I think egos can be collective to an extent, but I don't think it's "all good". Collective ego is the machine that drives (driven by) modern society.

Point being, is it my business what other people eat? Do I have the right/responsibility to demand an end to someone else's lifestyle simply because it's bad for them?

According to the leading theory, when the Mayan people decided that their Gods, and leaders, were powerless, they packed up and headed for the woods, leaving all their (tainted) impressive stonework to nature. I'm not sure if I buy that theory, but if people quit wanting fast food, McDees would be forced to shut their doors.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Rahz]
    #9908824 - 03/04/09 07:28 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Code:
 The Happy Meal enslaves our children



Ahah! Classic!

Code:
    solstice said:

Consciousness is a pretty recent innovation...



Pardon? Please tell me I'm missing something.



Well, on the scale of the life of our species, consciousness, meaning the ability to self-reflect, can be traced back to no more than 50 000 years in the past, this is not a very long time on the evolutionary scale of time.

So what I mean is that technological evolution seems like the next step after becoming self conscious and developping language and art. Those people, like Hubbub, although they probably don't realise it, wish that the evolution of our species can be stopped, that the destiny we are sketching for ourselves can be averted. I know of them, they are spreading like bad weed on the internet because, paradoxically, they have realised that internet is a great tool for propagandha.

So when I see them say stuff like : " DOWN WITH THE OLD EMPIRE!!!!!!!!! " I am entitled to laugh but also to " strike back " because what they fail to realise is that they are the agents of the old empire, in the sense that they try to prevent the next step we are about to take.

Code:
There is an evil beast among us. This demon grows stronger by the day. It is a silent killer and has been distracting us. It wears manny masks and takes many of shapes. This demon has been feasting upon our souls for it has none of its own. It will soon kill us all or entrap us in its fury. We Must Destroy The Machines!!! Despose of modern technology! Annihilate all electricty and use of fossil fuels for this is what it feeds upon, becoming hungrier by the second. RAMPAGE!!!



If that isn't proof enough... There is an " evil " among us, a demon, what have you, but do you know what it is? It is the ideology of conservatism, the idea that we should not reach forward, the fear of the future. And you know what this mentality actually says? It says that we shouldn't trust ourselves, that we should be afraid of what we create.

Well, that's bullshit.

Keep up your propagandha Hubbub, I'll be around because what you fail to realise is that there is a law in this world, and this law is the law of opposites which works through friction to achieve progress.:sun:


--------------------
Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9909083 - 03/04/09 08:48 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

So what are you trying to say?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9909632 - 03/04/09 11:04 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
If that isn't proof enough... There is an " evil " among us, a demon, what have you, but do you know what it is? It is the ideology of conservatism, the idea that we should not reach forward, the fear of the future. And you know what this mentality actually says? It says that we shouldn't trust ourselves, that we should be afraid of what we create.




It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.
--Robert Anton Wilson


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9910216 - 03/04/09 12:43 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

How are machines part of our evolution? We have not physically evolved since we left the caves.

What are these opposites you speak of? Im not a fan of laws.


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9910250 - 03/04/09 12:50 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Many people misuse the word evolution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9915116 - 03/05/09 06:41 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Code:
How are machines part of our evolution? We have not physically evolved since we left the caves.



That says a a lot about your philosophy! Have you even thought a minute about what machines are, essentially?

Your point about no more physical evolution since we left the caves is a good one and points to what I'm saying; that machines are an extension of our potential, an extension that allows us to transcend the physical limitations of our bodies. And where are they from, these machines? From our MINDS.

The mind thinks and wishes a lot of things and the mind is where evolution took place after the body got where it had to be. So what you seem to be preaching to us is that we should be satisfied with our physical evolution and restrain from going further down the evolutionary path, which is the path of ideas, of imagination fusing with matter in order to get us out there.

Like I said previously, the machines are not the problems, the problem is lack of maturity. And what you seem to be willing to act out is Mary Shelley's Frankeinstein in blaming the creation and not the creator.

Trying to keep us from reaching an equilibrium between imagination and material responsability is wishful thinking akin to an infantilisation complex. We cannot be " children " forever, we have to grow up and accept our role, fully.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9915485 - 03/05/09 09:06 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

I didn't say this friend. If you press reply on the post and poster you want to address instead of the last post you will be addressing them eliminating a lot of confusion. If you need any help on any of this PM me and I will be glad to help.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9915718 - 03/05/09 10:11 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Code:
I didn't say this friend. If you press reply on the post and poster you want to address instead of the last post you will be addressing them eliminating a lot of confusion. If you need any help on any of this PM me and I will be glad to help. 



I know how to quote thank you, I was replying to Hubbub, obviously.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9915998 - 03/05/09 11:20 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Then why post the reply to me genius?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9916032 - 03/05/09 11:27 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Mistakes happen, you do know that don't you? I'm not a machine!:grin:


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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9916056 - 03/05/09 11:31 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Mistakes are not tolerated in enlightened individuals. Except this one time.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9916068 - 03/05/09 11:35 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Mistakes are not tolerated in enlightened individuals. Except this one time.:satansmoking:




I'm not enlightened, I'm merely electrified!


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9916122 - 03/05/09 11:47 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Not enlightened? Good for you. All the masses of enlightened ones around here all have huge egos.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9916229 - 03/05/09 12:09 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
Code:
How are machines part of our evolution? We have not physically evolved since we left the caves.



That says a a lot about your philosophy! Have you even thought a minute about what machines are, essentially?

Your point about no more physical evolution since we left the caves is a good one and points to what I'm saying; that machines are an extension of our potential, an extension that allows us to transcend the physical limitations of our bodies. And where are they from, these machines? From our MINDS.

The mind thinks and wishes a lot of things and the mind is where evolution took place after the body got where it had to be. So what you seem to be preaching to us is that we should be satisfied with our physical evolution and restrain from going further down the evolutionary path, which is the path of ideas, of imagination fusing with matter in order to get us out there.

Like I said previously, the machines are not the problems, the problem is lack of maturity. And what you seem to be willing to act out is Mary Shelley's Frankeinstein in blaming the creation and not the creator.

Trying to keep us from reaching an equilibrium between imagination and material responsability is wishful thinking akin to an infantilisation complex. We cannot be " children " forever, we have to grow up and accept our role, fully.




Frankeinstein had to be killed after he was created. That is a good analogy. We have created a monster!

But I understand what your saying, but machines arent necessarily our self expression and imagination. Who here has ever even built a machine? I can assume that no one here has built a machine before. Machines build the machines for christ sake. And its not for self expression, its for money and power.

The degree a species can manipulate matter, I believe relates to how evolved the species is. Manipulating matter is merging thought with vision and manifesting matter as self expression. But machines arent self expression at all. Nor are they imaginative. The imagination behind most machine creations are, "How can I get a bunch of money?" Thats hardly spiritual poetry taken straight from the heart and birthed in physical form as the expression of the creator. Maybe the expression of the machines is greed and thats not something we should be extending. I think thats exactly what is extending and we are ripping the world apart.

WE HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!!!

and yeah, people who claim to be enlightened are definitly NOT enlightened. I am far from enlightenment because I know what it means.


--------------------

Edited by Hubbub (03/05/09 12:16 PM)

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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9916513 - 03/05/09 12:52 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Code:
Frankeinstein had to be killed after he was created. That is a good analogy. We have created a monster!

But I understand what your saying, but machines arent necessarily our self expression and imagination. Who here has ever even built a machine? I can assume that no one here has built a machine before. Machines build the machines for christ sake. And its not for self expression, its for money and power.

The degree a species can manipulate matter, I believe relates to how evolved the species is. Manipulating matter is merging thought with vision and manifesting matter as self expression. But machines arent self expression at all. Nor are they imaginative. The imagination behind most machine creations are, "How can I get a bunch of money?" Thats hardly spiritual poetry taken straight from the heart and birthed in physical form as the expression of the creator. Maybe the expression of the machines is greed and thats not something we should be extending. I think thats exactly what is extending and we are ripping the world apart.

WE HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!!!

and yeah, people who claim to be enlightened are definitly NOT enlightened. I am far from enlightenment because I know what it means.



My God( dess ) .... are you deliberately trying your best to don't understand my point? I definitely hope so...

First of all, the frankeinstein monster was NOT evil. That's the whole point of the story, that people were so afraid that they destroyed it before taking the time to realise it wasn't! Relate that to machines and the way you think about them... no ! don't answer yet, reflect for a while. The problem is not the creation, but the creators! So when you talk about machines being made for monetary purposes, you make a point but a bad one because machines did not begin to be put together for that purpose at all! You cannot take the present state of affairs and appply it to the intentions of people who lived a hundred years ago whose only intentions were to facilitate their lives.

Machines do not have expressions, they ARE the expressions and that is why we must, instead of completely infantilise ourselves and refuse to take responsibility, complete the maturation process we have began and take it all the way to the end so that machines serve positive purposes. After all, they are the reflection of our aspirations. Do you wish to completely anihilate human aspirations?


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Offlinezouden
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: solstice]
    #9917706 - 03/05/09 03:28 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
Code:
I didn't say this friend. If you press reply on the post and poster you want to address instead of the last post you will be addressing them eliminating a lot of confusion. If you need any help on any of this PM me and I will be glad to help. 



I know how to quote thank you, I was replying to Hubbub, obviously.




I'm... not sure that you do. All these 'code' tags are messing up the page layout :sad:


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9917774 - 03/05/09 03:37 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Machines build the machines for christ sake.

Then how did the first machine come into being?

The problem is people and not machines. They aren't conscious and out to get us. We got ourselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9918342 - 03/05/09 05:14 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah, but I was never afraid of machines. Its not like frankenstein because everyone likes machines. This wasnt something I had always thought. Growing up with the machines, I didnt really think much about them. It wasnt intill maybe a year ago when I made this hypothesis.

Its like the opposite of frankenstein. For a long time I was under the impression that machines were good and that they were here to take care of us, but then as I grew up I started to realize that they were evil bastards trying to cage me in a box.

Its like the sexy vampire. Your like, "Damn that girl is super hot and she really likes me. This is going to be awsome." And then right before she goes down on you, BAM!!! Wait a second... its a god damn vampire! But its too late, you try to move as the fangs penetrate your jugular. You feel your energy drain and you can no longer move. You try to focus as your vision slowly begins to fade. Confused and helpless you submit and surrender to the living dead.

Personally, I think they are a failed experiment and they will be destroyed by themselvs in the near future. The light bulb was invented only about 150 years ago and in only 150 years we have almost devoured the entire Earth. What do you think will happen in a mere 50 years into the future?


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Edited by Hubbub (03/05/09 05:35 PM)

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9920115 - 03/05/09 10:14 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Ive given it some thought and I guess machines are a part of our evolution even though they suck massive balls.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9920117 - 03/05/09 10:15 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

It's inevitable.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: deCypher]
    #9920783 - 03/06/09 12:12 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
Its like the sexy vampire. Your like, "Damn that girl is super hot and she really likes me. This is going to be awsome." And then right before she goes down on you, BAM!!! Wait a second... its a god damn vampire! But its too late, you try to move as the fangs penetrate your jugular. You feel your energy drain and you can no longer move. You try to focus as your vision slowly begins to fade. Confused and helpless you submit and surrender to the living dead.



I hate it when that happens.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: zouden]
    #9921842 - 03/06/09 09:28 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Hubbub said:
Yeah, but I was never afraid of machines. Its not like frankenstein because everyone likes machines. This wasnt something I had always thought. Growing up with the machines, I didnt really think much about them. It wasnt intill maybe a year ago when I made this hypothesis.

Its like the opposite of frankenstein. For a long time I was under the impression that machines were good and that they were here to take care of us, but then as I grew up I started to realize that they were evil bastards trying to cage me in a box.

Its like the sexy vampire. Your like, "Damn that girl is super hot and she really likes me. This is going to be awsome." And then right before she goes down on you, BAM!!! Wait a second... its a god damn vampire! But its too late, you try to move as the fangs penetrate your jugular. You feel your energy drain and you can no longer move. You try to focus as your vision slowly begins to fade. Confused and helpless you submit and surrender to the living dead.

Personally, I think they are a failed experiment and they will be destroyed by themselvs in the near future. The light bulb was invented only about 150 years ago and in only 150 years we have almost devoured the entire Earth. What do you think will happen in a mere 50 years into the future?



 

Try meds.

and you failed to answer my question. :nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9924598 - 03/06/09 06:10 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

the first machine was created by a person. But machines now adays are mostly made by machinery.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9928317 - 03/07/09 01:15 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Then you must admit to making many knee jerk statements that are just based on your misinformed subjectivity.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9929636 - 03/07/09 05:40 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

SILENCE!!!!

You are obviously a robot.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Hubbub]
    #9933384 - 03/08/09 01:08 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

I am a Steppenwolf, you are a robot.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRomantican
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9933941 - 03/08/09 03:01 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Solstice is entirely correct.


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OfflineHubbub
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #9934034 - 03/08/09 03:24 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I am a Steppenwolf, you are a robot.:satansmoking:




I dont believe you.


--------------------

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Offlinesolstice
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Re: WE MUST DESTROY THE MACHINES!!! [Re: Romantican]
    #9936175 - 03/08/09 09:20 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Thanks you, I like to think that's true as well.:grin:


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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