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Offlineurtrippin
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 35
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: zhenka11230]
    #7731015 - 12/07/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



Buddhism couldn't possibly be equally irrational because it doesn't dwell in the supernatural. The Buddha never claimed to be anything else than just a human.

Edited by urtrippin (12/07/07 10:25 PM)

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Offlineurtrippin
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 35
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: zhenka11230]
    #7731182 - 12/07/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zhenka11230 said:
Hello fellow thinkers,

Buddhism appeals to many Americans as it promises what most lack - Happiness and contempt.




LOL - oh I think there's plenty of contempt going around.

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OfflineBrainChemicals
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Registered: 04/16/07
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: notapillow]
    #7732539 - 12/08/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I take Buddhism seriously, yet I don't. Religions like Taoism, Buddhism, etc are all based around the human experience of the same "ultimate reality." Buddhists and Taoists furthermore, ultimately say "reject everything, including this religion, for what we've given you isn't a religion but just a method of practice to ultimately experience nonconceptualized ultimate reality." For this reason, Buddhism is religious but not a religion and therefore much different than anything else.

Also, I feel that Buddhist cosmology makes an enormous amount of sense, and science is seemingly starting to agree.


--------------------
Laugh and the world laughs with you.
Weep and you weep alone

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: BrainChemicals]
    #7732705 - 12/08/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

all based around the human experience of the same "ultimate reality."

Oh you mean your subjective "ultimate reality".

No one to my knowledge has ever experienced ultimate reality or can identify it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Posts: 3,910
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: Icelander]
    #7780723 - 12/20/07 08:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's true in part that many Buddhists do get into the 'brainwashing' part. Especially those with little occult background who are atoning for their previous negative ways, who thus are treating Buddhism like Christianity. And this does happen.

Also, I do believe that many people choose a monking or nunnish lifestyle as based in their negativity towards life, rather than for positive aspiration to that lifestyle for what it presents in terms of an opportunity to study and meditate deeply.

I could go on about wrong thoughts and motives and behaviors which propel people to do Buddhism, but I could also go on about that about anything.

Just, as in say, any profession those who do the profession because they love their work will maintain an especial joie de vivre, while those who are grunting along will show their displeasure as they work.

Thus it all depends upon the person and their motives for pursuing what they are doing.

But the fact that Buddhism provides a framework for a certain realization for those for whom that realization is important and should be applauded and not lead to hissing.

Buddhism is a practical study, like learning to and fixing an automobile. The most deluded (ex-Buddhists) were the merely philosophical ones who never took the car for a spin. Because in driving one gets a sense of the whole point of the vehicle. Otherwise, without driving, cars seem pretty pointless as abstractions.

I've said what I meant to say. Religions, like cars, should be driven, not from the backseat.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: eve69]
    #7780923 - 12/20/07 09:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

But the fact that Buddhism provides a framework for a certain realization for those for whom that realization is important and should be applauded and not lead to hissing.

Buddhism is a practical study, like learning to and fixing an automobile. The most deluded (ex-Buddhists) were the merely philosophical ones who never took the car for a spin. Because in driving one gets a sense of the whole point of the vehicle. Otherwise, without driving, cars seem pretty pointless as abstractions.


I really enjoy (and agree with) many of your posts here. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineeve69
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: Icelander]
    #7780970 - 12/20/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks. I think we had some mutual admiration a year or two back as well.


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...or something






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Offlinesamariah
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: eve69]
    #7783046 - 12/20/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think you are making generalizations about Buddhism, many which are not true, and you also seem to be making your generalizations based on the biased perspective of Nietzche. I don't believe Nietzche had a very accurate concept of what Buddhism is about.

I am not a buddhist and I do not attach myself solely to any one philosophy but many buddhist ideas have been very helpful to me pyschologically and philosophically. Although there are many different sects of buddhism, buddhism isn't about escaping the grit and grime of the real world for some fantasy detached life. For me, buddhism has helped me to embrace the "harsh" realities of the real world by learning not to be so attached, by learning to shed bias and see things as they are. there is no such thing as objective suffering. not everyone percieves life as suffering. i know i certainly don't. i don't feel like my life is one of suffering even though another person doing/going through the same things as me might say that it is. buddhism has taught me that my perceptions play a huge role in how i describe or define things. if i percieve getting up and going to a minimum wage job every day as suffering because i could be making more money, because i dont have excess amounts of money, because i dont have a "respectable" job, then i will be unhappy and it will because of my attachment to social concepts of what a good job is. however, if i remove those social concepts and go back to my job i can view it as completely neutral. then, after that, i can create. In saying "create," I mean that because everything is meaningless, I can give meaning to my job. I can be happy that I have an activity to go to on a daily basis in which i can interact with my friends/coworkers. I can be happy that I work in pretty comfortable conditions. I can be happy that I am employed at all. I can be happy that I am simply experiencing reality and the astonishing complexity yet simplicity and beauty of every moment. Buddhism, for me, is about living completely in the moment. It is about being absorbed in the astonishing wild beauty of reality in the present. It is about removing attachment and preconcieved notions about how things are "supposed" to be and then creating your life/happiness out of the nothingness. I find it exciting that my life is mine to create and that i have the power to make the present moment utterly beautiful or the opposite. I utilize buddhism, i utilize the ideas present within it alongside of many ideas in other philosophies. In that regard, I do not view it as a religion but as a tool, a tool to learning better ways of living, to learning how to awaken myself and get the most out of existence and experience as i could possible dream of. It is about embracing reality, embracing what you have, the way things are. it is the complete opposite of escapism. With escapism, one desires to escape because he/she thinks things should be a different way so he/she tries to get away/escape. buddhism is a philosophy for those who want to learn how to completely live in the moment, try to un attach themselves from "should be's", and be completely happy simply existing.

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Offlinehowtodisappear
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Registered: 12/23/05
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: zhenka11230]
    #9857621 - 02/24/09 05:15 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I highly recommend that you and everyone read Zen and the Brain by Dr. James H. Austin.


If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.
- Einstein

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Offlinehowtodisappear
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: Icelander]
    #9857678 - 02/24/09 05:22 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

"Believe nothing merely because you have been told it.
Do not believe what your teacher tells you
merely out of respect for the teacher.
But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis,
you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit,
the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide." - Siddhartha Gautama

One of the great things about Buddhism is that from the very start of it, Siddhartha Gautama taught that you shouldn't believe anything that does not agree with your own reason and common sense.

Plus, scientific discoveries have helped and not harmed the credibility of Buddhism. That is a rare occurrence.

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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 1 day
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: howtodisappear]
    #9858352 - 02/24/09 07:10 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

What a saucy post. I get some of what you are trying to say, but I would agree with the rebuttals in the sense that perhaps the OP was being a bit too black and white about Buddhism. It seems that the OP is deprecating it due to how the masses might participate in it or whatever. I do not claim to know much about it but I can say that it seems to be on to something at some level. But yes, existential thinkers often offer up good anecdotal reality checks if you will. You reference Nietzsche, I know he was a bit anti Buddha, however it has been noted he wasn't that well versed in Buddhism. I guess I can agree a Buddhist who is so extreme that he will not participate in the variety of things the world can offer seems too unbalanced. But that doesnt mean that Buddhism has some aspects of it that are worthwhile. Remember Nietzsche himself was pretty hermit like and "life negating" in his own sense for several reasons, I think he just doesnt like the idea of weariness that could be attributed to the desire loose oneself in a more ideal existence or something.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: andrewss]
    #9858456 - 02/24/09 07:29 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Well said Andrews.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

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Offlineandrewss
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Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: daytripper23]
    #9858478 - 02/24/09 07:31 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Well said Andrews.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?




fap fap fap fap fap behind the glow of a computer screen while sobbing at how lame I am.

Errrrrrrr :lol:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: andrewss]
    #9858625 - 02/24/09 07:48 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

haha well Im glad I am the one asking the question.

I think the thing about the Koan is how you find yourself doing the most absurd things over and over again.

For me, meditation is ascetic much of the time. I can think of no other way to describe sitting on my ass for 45 minutes, other than I am negating all the fun I could have letting my mind run wild. Maybe when I get into it, I am no longer repressing or negating, but in the beginning I sure am.

Nietzsche is an interesting lens for eastern philosophy. He outrightly rejected (-) asceticism in favor of a (+) will to power. But then again, like you say, look at the way he lived...

Theres one thing funny about him, (I just heard this through the grape vine by the way) supposedly he only had sex one time in his life, and the poor guy caught syphilis and that's how he died.

By the way what do you mean he is sort of anti-buddha?

Edited by daytripper23 (02/24/09 08:51 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: daytripper23]
    #9858786 - 02/24/09 08:10 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Theres one thing funny about him, (I just heard this through the grape vine by the way) supposedly he only had sex one time in his life, and the poor guy caught syphilis and that's how he died.




Beware of syphilitics preaching morals.
--Saul Bellow


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlineastronaut
ascetic aesthetic
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Registered: 09/11/07
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: deCypher]
    #9858828 - 02/24/09 08:17 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I don't think the OP (or Nietzsche) understands Buddhism, and in the case of the OP, his grammar leaves something to be desired as well. ;- /


--------------------
In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face:
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!

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Offlineandrewss
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Registered: 08/17/07
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: daytripper23]
    #9859180 - 02/24/09 09:00 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
haha well Im glad I am the one asking the question.

I think the thing about the Koan is how you find yourself doing the most absurd things over and over again.

For me, meditation is ascetic much of the time. I can think of no other way to describe sitting on my ass for 45 minutes, other than I am negating all the fun I could have letting my mind run wild. Maybe when I get into it, I am no longer repressing or negating, but in the beginning I sure am.

Nietzsche is an interesting lens for eastern philosophy. He outrightly rejected (-) asceticism in favor of a (+) will to power. But then again, like you say, look at the way he lived...

Theres one thing funny about him, (I just heard this through the grape vine by the way) supposedly he only had sex one time in his life, and the poor guy caught syphilis and that's how he died.

By the way what do you mean he is sort of anti-buddha?




Primarily from Walter Kaufmann (a big german to english translator of Nietzsche and writer himself who also wrote a biography of him) notes that the syphilis deal is not actually proven as truth. There is no doubt that Nietzsche lived a lot of his life in pain, headaches, bodyaches, severe eye problems, etc... It could be that his eventually going mad is related to syphilis but then again its not proven fact. But it is perhaps likely. Nobody knows how much sex Nietzsche had, surely not that much though.

It is well documented he had a odd encounter at a brothel.

Antibuddha? Hmmm, I guess I am not really sure. Surely he would have had problems with anyone claiming to assert the true existence of any sort of heaven. But again I am no expert in Buddhism but it should be noted that perhaps Nietzsche was surely not the antithesis of Buddhism. He to me seems to espouse a sort of skeptical "metaphysic" if you will... I mean my limited understanding of the will to power concept seems pretty metaphysical. But then again I think there is something remarkable about his approach to the supposed dichotomy between what science rigidly espouses and what religions do. Parts of The Gay Science come to mind when he wrote on epistemology and the sort, he had a very diverse outlook IMO.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

Edited by andrewss (02/24/09 09:03 PM)

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: andrewss]
    #9859367 - 02/24/09 09:29 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Hmmm, I never got the impression that Nietzsche was speaking metaphysically, although metaphysic is a strange enough concept that it may have more to do with my personal understanding of it. I would think though, that the will to power and most of his basic ideas were precisely described to precede metaphysics. It might be a bit of an oversimplification, but in this sense much of what he said seemed almost animalistic, preceding human. Certainly evolutionary.

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: daytripper23]
    #9859930 - 02/24/09 11:08 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Yes, but I guess there are degrees of metaphysical loftiness...

check this out: http://www.mun.ca/phil/codgito/vol2/v2doc4.html

Pretty good write up related to this part of Nietzsche


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Jesus loves you.

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Invisiblearainbow
Hippy


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 691
Loc: Palnet Earth
Re: Buddhism is equaly irrational to any other religion. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9868267 - 02/26/09 08:37 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
BTW, I'd like to address this comment:
Quote:

Meditating will not get you anything but mild relaxation and detachment from the world, which can be achieved much more efficiently by smoking pot or taking a hot bath.



I'm sorry, but this is not what meditation is about.  The goal of meditation is not relaxation, but rather mental discipline.  Someone with years of experience and practice at meditation will have much greater control over their brain functions, including their emotions(thus allowing for greater happiness).




meditation can produce a higher state of consciousness in witch one becomes aware of one's existance in the the present
the term most often used to describe this state of mind is being here now or self conscious

the hard pill for most people to swallow is they are not self conscious but instead are in a semi sleep state


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There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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