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Offlinepalmersc
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God is and God is good
    #9830419 - 02/19/09 11:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm just really excited tonight. I know God and He knows me. Haha it is awesome.

I know I don't post on here very much anymore, but I still remember throwing ideas around on this board. The last 18 months for me have been filled with trials, but the joy of the Lord has been with me through it all. Jesus has given me living water so that I thirst no more. I spend time in His presence and talk with Him all the time.

It all began for me with fearing God. He is God and we are mere men. We are completely at His mercy. He is good though. So good.

We are stiff necked and rebellious by nature. He will work with us though if we work with Him. He will let us go our own way too. Take a look at the world and see what happens when we do things our way. Look at the absolute poverty of nations in spiritual darkness. Why practice spiritual disciplines which obviously do nothing but ignore the problems.

There is a battle between good and evil going on.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9830486 - 02/19/09 11:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There is no good.  There is no evil.

To create the dichotomy is to have already lost the battle.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinemycoharry
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9830557 - 02/19/09 11:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

yeah and if good wins in your life, Santa will bring you gifts! and the easter bunny wont poop in your shoes...


--------------------
we create realitys in our minds based on our own experiences, rather than fact. my experiences in life have been insane, so in reality i am in fact, INSANE...
-ME

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InvisibleJufin
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Registered: 03/31/08
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Loc: Australia
Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9830647 - 02/19/09 11:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You are so lame.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9830668 - 02/19/09 11:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
There is no good.  There is no evil.

To create the dichotomy is to have already lost the battle.



Nonsense.  This dichotomy is the very foundation of a functioning society.


--------------------

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Silversoul]
    #9830686 - 02/19/09 11:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

A functioning society should be founded on pragmatic principles that serve to promote social cohesion and stability, not on an inherently subjective concept of morality.

I was speaking more from the individualistic point of view, anyway.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibletwo_rivers
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1,014
Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9830697 - 02/19/09 11:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
Look at the absolute poverty of nations in spiritual darkness.




to me it seems that if any country were to be referred to as being left in spiritual darkness, it'd be the US.


--------------------
:kodama:

Save Shroomerites Anonymous!

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9830925 - 02/20/09 12:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
I'm just really excited tonight. I know God and He knows me. Haha it is awesome.

I know I don't post on here very much anymore, but I still remember throwing ideas around on this board. The last 18 months for me have been filled with trials, but the joy of the Lord has been with me through it all. Jesus has given me living water so that I thirst no more. I spend time in His presence and talk with Him all the time.

It all began for me with fearing God. He is God and we are mere men. We are completely at His mercy. He is good though. So good.

We are stiff necked and rebellious by nature. He will work with us though if we work with Him. He will let us go our own way too. Take a look at the world and see what happens when we do things our way. Look at the absolute poverty of nations in spiritual darkness. Why practice spiritual disciplines which obviously do nothing but ignore the problems.

There is a battle between good and evil going on.




Congratulations.  However the battle for your soul isn't over.  Stay close and help win that one.


--------------------

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Invisiblecatboosh
©Ω§M¡K F€L1N∑
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Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 860
Loc: Humboldt, California
Re: God is and God is good [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9831420 - 02/20/09 02:12 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i am god

understand yourself


--------------------


"Reality is a juxtaposition of beauty and bullshit, sometimes you gotta wade through the bullshit to see the beauty, and the other times the beauty you see is just full of shit."

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InvisibleJufin
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: catboosh]
    #9831456 - 02/20/09 02:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

No, I am god.

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Invisiblecatboosh
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Jufin]
    #9831464 - 02/20/09 02:44 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

everyone is their own god

perception is subjective

IDEALISM FTW!


--------------------


"Reality is a juxtaposition of beauty and bullshit, sometimes you gotta wade through the bullshit to see the beauty, and the other times the beauty you see is just full of shit."

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InvisibleJufin
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: catboosh]
    #9831494 - 02/20/09 03:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

catboosh said:
everyone is their own god



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InvisiblegiPSY
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Jufin]
    #9831508 - 02/20/09 03:29 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, being with Him is good!

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9831578 - 02/20/09 04:33 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
A functioning society should be founded on pragmatic principles that serve to promote social cohesion and stability, not on an inherently subjective concept of morality.

I was speaking more from the individualistic point of view, anyway.




Can you really live without any concepts of good and evil? I doubt anyone can.

If I rape a baby un front of your eyes and beat it to death, you might think it's bad, am I wrong?

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9831618 - 02/20/09 05:05 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

you might think it's bad, am I wrong?




What does this have to do with what he said, though?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9831678 - 02/20/09 05:41 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
There is no good.  There is no evil.

To create the dichotomy is to have already lost the battle.




To this!
I don't think it's possible to live without this dichotomy.
As I don't believe in stoicism, for example.

I would agree with DeCypher though, if he would say that we did lose the battle, whatever we do.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9831727 - 02/20/09 06:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

On a personal level, I guess it can be said that, based on our irrational feelings, we will always have the tendency to label things as good or bad. This doesn't mean that this is fruitful though, and these labellings can be removed, at least to some extent, from our way to view life.
When it comes to making decisions, laws and other social norms, I think it becomes even more obvious why these things are best if they're removed and replaced with whatever works best, based on observation and trial.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9831750 - 02/20/09 06:24 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This is my problem with "Mainstream Christians". Its not Like i cant find spirituality in the bible......but why do so many of them choose to express it in a weird ass dialect that isnt their normal way of speaking. This is not the bible days in Ye Olde English (or whatever). Fucking express yourself normally.

And why do so many of them choose a "Holier than thou" attitude? And who the fuck say's that nations without spirituality are in Poverty? Some of the happiest people I know are next to dirt poor.

Sorry.....this really isnt a thread I should be reading when first waking up


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Almond Flour]
    #9831788 - 02/20/09 06:48 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

It seems weird to me to think that there is no such thing as evil just because it doesn't objectively exist. It doesn't make sense to live our lives through a purely objective viewpoint IMO.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #9832040 - 02/20/09 08:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

All these responses do not surprise me really. Most of you are proving my point of how rebellious we are... even to the point of calling yourselves gods. I can assure you the job of being God is already taken.

How can you be gods? You did nothing to create yourselves or the universe. Naked you came into this world and naked you will leave.

Let me ask. Is it possible that you have been deceived? Think about where you are getting your information from and who you are listening to. If you are anything like I was, your family is not buying into your ideas. Maybe you should listen to family. People who really care for you because the people who are quick to speak lies on the internet don't care.

Please don't think I am looking down on any of you. I know where you all are coming from as I once immersed myself in psychedelics and eastern mysticism. How many of you have been admitted to a mental hospital actually believing you were God?

The bottom line is you don't want to be accountable for your actions to a God which has laws. God's laws are not intended to pick you apart and be a burden though. The laws are intended to show us how far off the path we are and how much we are in need of God's grace.

There is right and wrong. God created this place with order. He is allowing evil to exist for a season and has given us free will to live however we want. The time is coming though when God will destroy evil and those who practice lawlessness.

It ain't no joke.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9832060 - 02/20/09 08:45 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kukaracha said:
Can you really live without any concepts of good and evil? I doubt anyone can.

If I rape a baby un front of your eyes and beat it to death, you might think it's bad, am I wrong?




Your behavior might lead me to decide that you have no respect for individual liberty, and to subsequently avoid you for fear that you might, in turn, disrespect myself, but for me to call your actions 'bad' would seem to imply that your action is inherently wrong.  This judgment serves no purpose; you probably feel that your action is likewise just as much inherently right.

Subjective judgments of morality serve only to label actions on a continuum between desirability and undesirability; why not bypass this indirect mediation and simply call it for what it is without bringing in such bloated concepts as good or evil?

Quote:

palmersc said: Let me ask. Is it possible that you have been deceived?




The pot calling the kettle black much?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9832097 - 02/20/09 09:01 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Despite how much I despise the way you Present your view's.....I still enjoy the outlook you precieve. I think It just needs a new coat of paint, however you have the right idea. You have earned 5 shrooms my friend.


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9832282 - 02/20/09 09:49 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
I'm just really excited tonight. I know God and He knows me. Haha it is awesome.

I know I don't post on here very much anymore, but I still remember throwing ideas around on this board. The last 18 months for me have been filled with trials, but the joy of the Lord has been with me through it all. Jesus has given me living water so that I thirst no more. I spend time in His presence and talk with Him all the time.

It all began for me with fearing God. He is God and we are mere men. We are completely at His mercy. He is good though. So good.

We are stiff necked and rebellious by nature. He will work with us though if we work with Him. He will let us go our own way too. Take a look at the world and see what happens when we do things our way. Look at the absolute poverty of nations in spiritual darkness. Why practice spiritual disciplines which obviously do nothing but ignore the problems.

There is a battle between good and evil going on.




meds


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIndigenous
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 814
Loc: Celestial Realm
Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9832466 - 02/20/09 10:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
Let me ask. Is it possible that you have been deceived? Think about where you are getting your information from and who you are listening to. If you are anything like I was, your family is not buying into your ideas. Maybe you should listen to family. People who really care for you because the people who are quick to speak lies on the internet don't care.





If Jesus's followers had listened to this advice you would be Jewish.

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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9832622 - 02/20/09 11:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would like to point out that Jesus was Rebellious as well. He went out on a limb and challenged the whole Jewish faith by claiming himself a messiah. If you wanna follow in his footsteps, have the courage to not be a mindless follower


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Almond Flour]
    #9832820 - 02/20/09 11:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jesus was Rebellious as well.




That's mostly because he was on meth all the time. :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Registered: 12/18/08
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9832975 - 02/20/09 11:57 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Your behavior might lead me to decide that you have no respect for individual liberty, and to subsequently avoid you for fear that you might, in turn, disrespect myself, but for me to call your actions 'bad' would seem to imply that your action is inherently wrong.  This judgment serves no purpose; you probably feel that your action is likewise just as much inherently right.




But couldn't you consider good and evil as a label you could transfer and transform? And I don't think that saying something is bad is saying that it's inherently wrong. We could all agree that some things are perceived as bad, then good, it depends of you. It's a label, not a part of the essence.

Quote:

deCypher said:
Subjective judgments of morality serve only to label actions on a continuum between desirability and undesirability; why not bypass this indirect mediation and simply call it for what it is without bringing in such bloated concepts as good or evil?




I just don't think it's possible.
But we could try.

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Offlinemycoharry
Fun guy
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Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 416
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9833354 - 02/20/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

all I'm going to say is that god is a convenient way to sum everything up and answer questions of life without having so show any form of evidence.


--------------------
we create realitys in our minds based on our own experiences, rather than fact. my experiences in life have been insane, so in reality i am in fact, INSANE...
-ME

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: mycoharry]
    #9833954 - 02/20/09 02:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

so true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleJufin
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Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9836405 - 02/20/09 11:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
All these responses do not surprise me really. Most of you are proving my point of how rebellious we are... even to the point of calling yourselves gods. I can assure you the job of being God is already taken.

How can you be gods? You did nothing to create yourselves or the universe. Naked you came into this world and naked you will leave.

Let me ask. Is it possible that you have been deceived? Think about where you are getting your information from and who you are listening to. If you are anything like I was, your family is not buying into your ideas. Maybe you should listen to family. People who really care for you because the people who are quick to speak lies on the internet don't care.

Please don't think I am looking down on any of you. I know where you all are coming from as I once immersed myself in psychedelics and eastern mysticism. How many of you have been admitted to a mental hospital actually believing you were God?

The bottom line is you don't want to be accountable for your actions to a God which has laws. God's laws are not intended to pick you apart and be a burden though. The laws are intended to show us how far off the path we are and how much we are in need of God's grace.

There is right and wrong. God created this place with order. He is allowing evil to exist for a season and has given us free will to live however we want. The time is coming though when God will destroy evil and those who practice lawlessness.

It ain't no joke.




No, it is a joke.  Life is a one massive joke.  It doesn't matter if I believe I am my own god, or you believe in a god created by the imagination of man to create order and fear.  These beliefs have no bearing on anything.  In the end we are all going to die and in that way we are all equals.  You telling us to ask ourselves if we have been deceived is so hypocritical, because no one really knows if there is a god or how the universe was created.  Fucking hell, will I ever meet a christian who isn't so full of shit?  I think not.

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9838221 - 02/21/09 11:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If you agree that God is the source, the creator of ALL...

Then, God is THE SOURCE of all evil.  God is responsible for all pain and suffering in the universe.  God created, with full prescience, murderers, rapists, robbers, diseases, parasites, natural disasters, Hitler, Hillary, Martha Stewart and Donald Trump's hair, etc.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838400 - 02/21/09 12:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

God is the thing that plays with us in a similar manner that we play with others that we have any sort of power over; it (if it exists, anyways) is the most powerful phenomenon in existence, the phenomenon that is on the top of the pyramid of all things that are.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 814
Loc: Celestial Realm
Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838428 - 02/21/09 12:13 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
If you agree that God is the source, the creator of ALL...

Then, God is THE SOURCE of all evil.  God is responsible for all pain and suffering in the universe.  God created, with full prescience, murderers, rapists, robbers, diseases, parasites, natural disasters, Hitler, Hillary, Martha Stewart and Donald Trump's hair, etc.




Not if god created an autonomous system.

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838741 - 02/21/09 01:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Huh?  So God is not responsible for what God created?  If God is fully prescient and God created it, God is the source of EVERYTHING and responsible for EVERYTHING in the system.  God is the source of ALL EVIL, there is no way getting around the conclusion, unless you change the definition of God to NOT be fully prescient and NOT be the source of everything.

Is it your contention that God is ignorant of the possible outcome(s) of God's actions?  Is it your contention that God did not set up the universe and the rules by which it (and by extension all things in it) operates?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9838768 - 02/21/09 01:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How many of you have been admitted to a mental hospital actually believing you were God?


Me, me, I have been admitted hundereds if not thousands of times. Thanks for asking.:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838791 - 02/21/09 01:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

God haters always use Biblical views to bash God. My scenario is not Biblical, so your definition of God is not applicable.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838825 - 02/21/09 01:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
God haters always use Biblical views to bash God. My scenario is not Biblical, so your definition of God is not applicable.



What do 'God haters' have to do with my posts?  Why do you address the phrase 'bash God' to me?

Please give your definition of God, including addressing the questions I previously posed about the nature of God as you 'understand' God.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838834 - 02/21/09 01:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Because anyone who doubts the existence of god is a god hater... or something :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9838845 - 02/21/09 01:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How can you hate something that doesn't exist.:shrug: I focus my hate on the Christians themselves.:thumbup: That is the healthy way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9838846 - 02/21/09 01:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How can one hate something if one isn't even sure of it's existence?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838848 - 02/21/09 01:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry. This sounded kind of hatey.

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
If you agree that God is the source, the creator of ALL...

Then, God is THE SOURCE of all evil.  God is responsible for all pain and suffering in the universe.  God created, with full prescience, murderers, rapists, robbers, diseases, parasites, natural disasters, Hitler, Hillary, Martha Stewart and Donald Trump's hair, etc.




I don't have time to post any more right now.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838876 - 02/21/09 01:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, that is what is called, 'drawing a logical conclusion.'  Do not conflate the use of logic in examining concepts which you have an emotional attachment to, with hate on the part of the person doing the analysis.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838879 - 02/21/09 01:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Just sounds true to me.:shrug:

I don't have time to post more non-sense right now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838895 - 02/21/09 01:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
How can one hate something if one isn't even sure of it's existence?




I don't know, I guess in the same way one can believe in god. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838913 - 02/21/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, I provided a scenario that proves your logic is flawed.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9838936 - 02/21/09 01:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I hate Santa Claus, and I'm pretty damn sure he's not real. But I could be wrong, right? :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838938 - 02/21/09 01:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What scenario would that be?  You have yet to answer my queries posed about your concept of God.  By failing to address those, you avoid the chance to persuade me of the validity of your concept of God.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9838945 - 02/21/09 01:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Not if god created an autonomous system.




And if God is omniscient, he would have foreseen that this autonomous system would entail needless suffering and evil.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9838958 - 02/21/09 01:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If you were God, wouldn't you be too lazy to fix all needless suffering and evil?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9838968 - 02/21/09 01:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Probably.  I'd be too busy playing poker with the Devil.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9838986 - 02/21/09 01:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

But you created the Devil. Why would you play with something you created..?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839009 - 02/21/09 01:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

For the same reason that a kid would play with his Lego creations?

Besides, who said God created the Devil?  Manichaeism is pretty appealing.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9839024 - 02/21/09 01:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Doesn't the Holy Bible mention it somehow? Like how God created everything?


I've never heard of Manichaeism, I'll read the Wikipedia article on it. :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839226 - 02/21/09 02:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
By failing to address those, you avoid the chance to persuade me of the validity of your concept of God.




Poor me.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839235 - 02/21/09 02:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

:respect:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Icelander]
    #9839238 - 02/21/09 02:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Just sounds true to me.:shrug:

I don't have time to post more non-sense right now.




I can't find the words to express how little your opinion means to me.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839262 - 02/21/09 02:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

:respect:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839276 - 02/21/09 02:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In other words, you have not provided an argument that stands up to scrutiny.

So what is your concept of God which you seem to be attempting to defend? 

Is your God the creator of EVERYTHING or did something else create your God and limit it's powers? 

Did your God create the devil or it's equivalent?  If not, does the equivalent of the devil exist in your view?  If so, how did the devil come into being?

Does your God set the rules for it's creations or are the rules outside of your God's control? 

Does your God know the consequences of it's actions?  Or, is your God ignorant of what will happen with it's creations?

Is your God omniscient?

Is your God prescient?  If so, to what extent?

What are the limitations to your God's power?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839286 - 02/21/09 02:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Wasn't the word 'God' invented by someone?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839293 - 02/21/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would assume it was a human who coined the term and 'pointed' it at a concept.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839311 - 02/21/09 02:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Didn't somebody create the word 'God', and it's definition, too?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839352 - 02/21/09 02:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
In other words, you have not provided an argument that stands up to scrutiny.

So what is your concept of God which you seem to be attempting to defend? 

Is your God the creator of EVERYTHING or did something else create your God and limit it's powers? 

Did your God create the devil or it's equivalent?  If not, does the equivalent of the devil exist in your view?  If so, how did the devil come into being?

Does your God set the rules for it's creations or are the rules outside of your God's control? 

Does your God know the consequences of it's actions?  Or, is your God ignorant of what will happen with it's creations?

Is your God omniscient?

Is your God prescient?  If so, to what extent?

What are the limitations to your God's power?




No one expects the spanish inquisition.

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Quote:

Trepiodos said:
If you agree that God is the source, the creator of ALL...

Then, God is THE SOURCE of all evil.  God is responsible for all pain and suffering in the universe.  God created, with full prescience, murderers, rapists, robbers, diseases, parasites, natural disasters, Hitler, Hillary, Martha Stewart and Donald Trump's hair, etc.




Not if god created an autonomous system.




This proves your logic is flawed.
You proceeded to change the definition of God after this. Doesn't work that way. If you want to get into semantics and say that my father is responsible for everything I did because he created me and god is responsible for his autonomous world then :yawn:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839381 - 02/21/09 02:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What is God, anyways?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839443 - 02/21/09 02:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
No one expects the spanish inquisition.



No, but I would expect a modicum of intellectual honesty from you if you are attempting to have a discussion on the subject.  By avoiding answering even a single one of these questions, you show that you do not have a well formed concept of the God which you are seemingly defending.

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Not if god created an autonomous system.
Quote:


This proves your logic is flawed.






Please explain how this proves my logic is flawed.  I have asked you REPEATEDLY to explain your concept of GOD by answering a few simple questions, yet you refuse.  I can only assume by you claiming an 'autonomous system' that your God is not prescient enough to know the consequences of it's actions when it set up this autonomous system.  Did your God create the system and the rules?  Or, were the rules outside of your God's control?

Quote:

You proceeded to change the definition of God after this.



I never changed any definition.  You never provided a definition.

Quote:

Doesn't work that way. If you want to get into semantics and say that my father is responsible for everything I did because he created me and god is responsible for his autonomous world then :yawn:



If you are intellectually incapable of answering a few questions about your belief, perhaps you should question yourself until you find an answer as to why you believe what you believe.  Or, refrain from attempting to discuss the subject with those who engage in critical thought.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839453 - 02/21/09 02:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
What is God, anyways?



That's what I've been trying to find out.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839462 - 02/21/09 02:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What are you trying to find out? You know that God is something, or else you wouldn't even be mentioning it.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839477 - 02/21/09 03:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

All I know is that God is a concept.  What I am trying to find out is, what the concept entails in the mind of Indigenous (in the context of this thread, of course).


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839589 - 02/21/09 03:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:

No, but I would expect a modicum of intellectual honesty from you if you are attempting to have a discussion on the subject.  By avoiding answering even a single one of these questions, you show that you do not have a well formed concept of the God which you are seemingly defending.





If don't answer your questions, it means I don't have answers. Once again you show illogical thought. I am not defending my concept of God. I posted a hypothetical situation.

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
If you are intellectually incapable of answering a few questions about your belief, perhaps you should question yourself until you find an answer as to why you believe what you believe.  Or, refrain from attempting to discuss the subject with those who engage in critical thought.


critical thought :rofl:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9839591 - 02/21/09 03:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Indigenous said:
Not if god created an autonomous system.




And if God is omniscient, he would have foreseen that this autonomous system would entail needless suffering and evil.




--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9839604 - 02/21/09 03:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

God was not defined as omniscient when I posted this.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839616 - 02/21/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In that case, carry on.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839617 - 02/21/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
All I know is that God is a concept.  What I am trying to find out is, what the concept entails in the mind of Indigenous (in the context of this thread, of course).




How do you know God is a concept? Who told you about God, and what did this person know about it/Him?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839623 - 02/21/09 03:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
God was not defined as omniscient when I posted this.




Yes, it/He was defined as omniscient many centuries before you posted this, :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839630 - 02/21/09 03:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
If don't answer your questions, it means I don't have answers.  Once again you show illogical thought. I am not defending my concept of God. I posted a hypothetical situation.



Excuse me, but it's YOUR hypothetical situation.  What kind of God is involved in your hypothetical situation?  How can you claim that my logic is flawed when YOU don't even know what YOU are positing?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839640 - 02/21/09 03:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
God was not defined as omniscient when I posted this.



What is the nature of your God then?  Is it Thor?  Is it Zeus?  Is it the FSM?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839652 - 02/21/09 03:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Wasn't the word 'God' invented by someone?




God, perhaps originally spelled "gheu", meaning "the one invoked, the one sacrificed to".

Good, comes from God.

They could be tied together by stating that an invocation, sacrifice, or work, is done for a purpose, and effort is generally (or always) meant to produce some good effect in the eyes of the doer.

God, is good.


--------------------
rahz

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"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839681 - 02/21/09 03:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe if you didn't act like such a critical thinker I would care. Use your fucking imagination if your thinking isn't too critical to create and not regurgitate.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Rahz]
    #9839686 - 02/21/09 03:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Which culture originally spelled it "gheu"?


So if good comes from God, then does evil come from Devil?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839691 - 02/21/09 03:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
How do you know God is a concept?



Clicky, clicky.

Quote:

Who told you about God,



Which time?  I have been exposed to the ideas of various gods throughout my entire life.

Quote:

... and what did this person know about it/Him?



Each person obviously has their own concept of God (if they hold such a concept).  In our country (the U.S.) the dominant concept is based on the Abrahamic religions.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Rahz]
    #9839700 - 02/21/09 03:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would rather follow the opinion of Jung too, and say that human beings need mysticism, and always bring the idea of supernatural existance.

Anyway, this would be a classical idea of God, which I think anyone might have already thought of here.

Now, if I were to define God, and if I believed in God, I would say that God is 0, the origin of everything (if the world is not eternal).
The first impulsion, the first energy which created the first light ray, the first cell, the first heartbeat, and is the source of everything.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839714 - 02/21/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

So if everyone has their own definition of this phenomenon known as "God", then why are all these different definitions under one word?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839715 - 02/21/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Which culture originally spelled it "gheu"?


So if good comes from God, then does evil come from Devil?




English language is not universal, it may not be very wise to draw conclusions from it.

diablo - mal
dios - bien

diable - mal
dieu - bien

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839731 - 02/21/09 03:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What, is that Spanish and French for Devil/bad and God/good?


You still didn't answer my question: Which culture spelled God "gheu"?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839749 - 02/21/09 03:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Maybe if you didn't act like such a critical thinker I would care. Use your fucking imagination if your thinking isn't too critical to create and not regurgitate.



Well, I used my imagination and assumed that you were referring to the generally accepted concept of an all powerful, all knowing (present and future) being who is the source of all that is and all that will be.  But then you tell me that I have changed the definition (which you never stated).  Since you take issue with my questioning of your God and decide that I'm not following your definition and get testy when I ask you to elaborate on what you mean, it is obvious that you do care.  Otherwise, I suspect that you would not use the phrase, "Use your fucking imagination."  I have not regurgitated anything, but I have repeated myself because you seem either unable to understand or defensive to my questions.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839760 - 02/21/09 03:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Which culture originally spelled it "gheu"?


So if good comes from God, then does evil come from Devil?




Gheu is Gothic.

Evil: yfel (Old English) from proto language, also found in other languages as: evel, ubil, euvel, ubil.

Evil means, "bad".

Devil seems to be a personalism I would guess, based on the combination of some form of diabolos (Greek, slanderer) and evel, originally Devel in Old English.


--------------------
rahz

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"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Rahz]
    #9839799 - 02/21/09 04:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

So the word 'God' comes from a Gothic term? I really didn't know, or expect that...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839810 - 02/21/09 04:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You assumed, that is bad. Most people do assume that the biblical god is what everyone is referring to. I should know that by now. That is why I threw in another possibility. I just made a post with a hypothetical possibility. I didn't sit down and write out all the traits of my hypothetical God. It would be easy to do.

Sorry, Sometimes it gets really old in here. The word God comes up and the trolls come out of the woodwork. You get the same people in here that just want to prove that people who believe in god are delusional. Then they want to step by step deconstruct your beliefs. Why the hell would anyone want to submit to the spanish inquisition?

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839840 - 02/21/09 04:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said: You get the same people in here that just want to prove that people who believe in god are delusional. Then they want to step by step deconstruct your beliefs.




A true believer would see nothing wrong with a test of faith.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839849 - 02/21/09 04:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If your beliefs are soundly constructed, then you should have absolutely no problem with having others deconstructing them. The Mysticism and the Paranormal forum is for people that don't want their beliefs deconstructed; this forum, however, is a philosophically/spiritually oriented logical debate forum.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839862 - 02/21/09 04:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
What, is that Spanish and French for Devil/bad and God/good?




You guessed right.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9839898 - 02/21/09 04:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Indigenous said: You get the same people in here that just want to prove that people who believe in god are delusional. Then they want to step by step deconstruct your beliefs.




A true believer would see nothing wrong with a test of faith.




Why would you think that? I don't need my faith tested. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I would be glad to answer questions for people that have no agenda. I see nothing to gain by submitting to an atheist intervention.

I actually have submitted to the spanish inquisition, why would I want to do it on a regular basis? No one gains anything in such an endevor. No ones beliefs are changed. No one gains knowledge. It is a circle jerk that I am tired of.

You already got an answer in M&P to this question. Are you just being the devils advocate or do you really believe what you say?

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839917 - 02/21/09 04:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kukaracha said:
Quote:

Poid said:
What, is that Spanish and French for Devil/bad and God/good?




You guessed right.




Well, first of all, I speak Spanish, and French isn't much different, and second of all, what was your point?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839928 - 02/21/09 04:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said: Are you just being the devils advocate or do you really believe what you say?




What in particular of the things that I've said are you referring to?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9839940 - 02/21/09 04:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Indigenous said: You get the same people in here that just want to prove that people who believe in god are delusional. Then they want to step by step deconstruct your beliefs.




A true believer would see nothing wrong with a test of faith.




Why would you think that? I don't need my faith tested. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I would be glad to answer questions for people that have no agenda. I see nothing to gain by submitting to an atheist intervention.




So you assume, right off the bat, that all of us have Atheist agendas, and we wish to test people's faith so that they may prove something to us?


Why wouldn't you need your faith tested? Is it really that weak?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9839955 - 02/21/09 04:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That one should not base itself on english language to explain a concept much, much older, and apparently universal.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9839977 - 02/21/09 04:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Im surprised at how primitive this discussion is. Nobody is clear about their definitions or terms and everybody is blaming the other for it. People are arguing about the soundness of the premises held by monotheists as well as about what conclusions can be drawn from those premises. The latter argument is one about logic alone; that is, it is about how one can move from one proposition to the other while preserving the truth value of the statements. This is essentially syntactic and is based on abstract rules of argumentation (logic). The former statement is as questions of semantics (and derivatively ontology); what god is and whether he exists are very different questions to those which ask about what he might be able to do after we establish a view on the former. So enough pretension about arguments.

Now there are very sophisticated responses to the questions and problems that people have had in this forum and these can be found in the history of western academic philosophy.  In Plato's Euthyphyro the god(s) omnipotence is questioned by our ability to make our own moral judgments. The question is asked, "does god love piety because it is good or is something pious because it is loved by god". We can replace any virtue with piety and the argument holds; we can even put good in its place and make a somewhat redundant but meaningful statement. "Does god love the good because it is good or is something good because it is loved by god". This presents two problems. If we assent to the former statement then there is something which logically precedes god (different from temporally preceding). That is, there is some fact about the world which is not determined by him but determines and informs his own activity; in this case we strip god(s) of some of their powers. However, if we assent to the later statement in question, then the good is arbitrarily determined; if god says its good, then we must take it to be (this is known as divine command theory in ethics). This is how people attempt to justify religious war but gives more authority to ethics and avoids problems of relativism. It doesn't take into account our own 'limited' human standards for making ethical judgments and thereby prevents us from encountering problems from discrepancies in our own judgments. I find this view far less tenable than the other however, there are some good arguments for it. I am only here giving a trivial account of this text and the literature that has followed from it.

Another important author with regards to this problem is the philosopher and mathematician G.W Leibniz (indecently there are some great cookies named after him). The man wrote on and contributed to almost every academic subject in his day but one of the problems he was concerned with was the problem of evil. If god is good and all powerful how can evil exist? He gives several very interesting answers that are related to his greater metaphysical theory. A brief part of his argument is as follows: God is all powerful and could have created any one of all possible worlds. Nonetheless, he chose this one, which still has suffering. Why? The answer relies on the notion of compossiblity, that is the ability for two things to possibly exist at the same time. So its not compossible that I am both entirely made of metal and also entirely made of wood; though, hypothetically and logically speaking there is no contradiction in thinking that I might be made of wood. That is, it is not impossible to imagine (like the former statement).There are more precise definitions of logical contradictions but i don't need to go into that now. It is also not compossible that gravity accelerates at 9.8m/s/s and that kangaroos don't have tails (in this world all kangaroo's would be unable to stand). This latter example shows a case of empirical non-compossibility rather than logical. Leibniz argues that evil is the result of something like this. This is the best possible world because this is the one which is best given the restrictions of compossiblity.

I have only touched the tip of the iceberg with regards to these questions and have probably not done them the justice they deserve. I now must say I am agnostic and do not really believe that we can prove or disprove the existence of god. The benefit of religion should be personal and communal in terms of rendering life more meaningful and promoting good dispositions. Good and evil can be useful terms for describing social behavior and engaging in social discourse. Like all other tools created by humans these can be misused. As for problems about the objectivity of terms such as good and evil..... We may say that they are not objective but they do describe objective events in a culturally subjective sense. Nonetheless, that culture is a reality and its values/ideologies/activities constitute it. IM actually too lazy to elaborate on this viewpoint but if anybody is interested I might do so later.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839990 - 02/21/09 04:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Oh. :mushroom2:


You weren't accusing me, a bilingual person, of doing such things, were you?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: ska8ball]
    #9839996 - 02/21/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sum it up, dude. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9840028 - 02/21/09 04:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Indigenous said: Are you just being the devils advocate or do you really believe what you say?




What in particular of the things that I've said are you referring to?




What you just said. Remember? You made a similar post in M&P about m&P and critical thinking.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840053 - 02/21/09 04:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

He's asking you so every one here knows what you're talking about.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840060 - 02/21/09 05:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:

So you assume, right off the bat, that all of us have Atheist agendas, and we wish to test people's faith so that they may prove something to us?


Why wouldn't you need your faith tested? Is it really that weak?




Who said everyone has an atheist agenda. Unfortunately they are everywhere and you can't get them to shut up.

What is it about faith that makes people think it needs testing? Why would not wanting to submit to the spanish inquisition imply anything other than it is a circle jerk.

I actually don't run on faith. Faith is belief without reason.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840167 - 02/21/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The people who cannot accept that other people don't believe the same thing they do are the ones who are insecure.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840186 - 02/21/09 05:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
I don't need my faith tested.




Then why did you say that?^


Faith isn't belief without reason as much as it is belief without proof. People who have faith in something obviously have a reason to be faithful, and a compelling one (at least to them) at that, don't you think?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840192 - 02/21/09 05:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
The people who cannot accept that other people don't believe the same thing they do are the ones who are insecure.




What does insecurity have to do with any of this?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840280 - 02/21/09 05:44 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

With respect to whether faith needs argumentation to separate the wheat of the truth from the chaff of illogical beliefs, yes I do believe.


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9840326 - 02/21/09 05:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

OK, since this thread is still alive I will see what else I can add

Most of you seem pretty sure the God described in the Bible does not exist. I guess you could say I am just as sure that He does.

Talking on a forum is not very productive... maybe fun, but probably not going to accomplish much.

I haven't always believed the way I do... wasn't even raised in a Christian household. God gave me a gift. I didn't earn it and I didn't figure anything out. That gift is faith. As it says in the scriptures, it is impossible to please God without faith. So if it is a gift, and God decides not to give it to some, can we find fault with God? No, and this is tough, but I trust God. He has created some of us to enjoy His glory and some he has not. So there is predestination, but there is also free will. How these two coexist only God knows. I know we must choose to follow God so I will continue to preach the gospel because I never know when God will prepare somebody's heart to receive it.

What causes us to be receptive to the gospel? Maybe loss of a loved one, cancer, or losing all your possessions in a flood. I don't know. For me it was losing my mind and realizing after a vision of Hell that I was on my way there.

I have been attacked by demons and seen the power Jesus had over them. I have felt such joy from the Holy Spirit that even peaking while tripping does not compare. And this joy is not fleeting. It is an unshakable joy.

I think what is foolish is that I never read the Bible but I listened to other's views on it and presumed way too much. Are you a truth seeker or self seeker?

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840364 - 02/21/09 05:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I read (present tense) the Holy Bible myself, but frankly, I am convinced that the Jesus Christ that was in that book never factually existed in real life.

That said, can you explain the details of what you witnessed regarding the power of Jesus, or would you rather not?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9840417 - 02/21/09 06:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
With respect to whether faith needs argumentation to separate the wheat of the truth from the chaff of illogical beliefs, yes I do believe.




Would you argue with idiots? I won't. I choose to converse about these topics with people who I respect.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840430 - 02/21/09 06:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How do you know if someone is an idiot? Are you "psychic"?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840446 - 02/21/09 06:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What does insecurity have to do with any of this?

Being weak in your faith would be insecurity.

Then why did you say that?^

Because I just can't get enough of your questions. Sometimes faith and belief are used interchangeably.

Edited by Indigenous (02/21/09 06:17 PM)

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840467 - 02/21/09 06:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sure,

Well I was admitted to the mental hospital thinking I was Jesus or a messiah of some kind. I had voices in my head telling me some very troubling things. I could talk with these voices and get responses that I know were not me. They would know things that I had never heard of.

I was being tormented by them and they were pushing me to kill myself. About that time there was a Bible amidst all the magazines where I was sitting and I opened it up. Well every time I opened it up I it spoke about exactly what was troubling me. I guess you could write that off as me being crazy. But the more I read it, the more convicted I became of its truth until I asked God to save me and deliver me from the mess I was in.

A peace overcame me but that wasn't the end of struggle. After being saved the voices in my head started to curse God and tried to destroy my new relationship with the Lord.

Somebody shared with me the power the blood of Jesus has over the devil and the demons so I began to proclaim the blood out loud and found that the voices were silenced. A few times I would wake up at night  gripped by terror and call out to Jesus and my body would jolt and I would feel relief like something left me. I'm not sure exactly what was happening but I think demons were being cast out. All I knew was that the things torturing me could not stand Jesus.

Faith is personal to each one of us. I think it is obvious that there is a God, but we have to walk out our own path. I only want to share what I have learned. I guess you could say I was extremely open minded at one time and now that I have found what I was looking for I am close minded. I remember a quote that I like that says something like your mind is similar to your mouth in that its function is to open until it has found something solid to close on.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840496 - 02/21/09 06:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
What does insecurity have to do with any of this?

Being weak in your faith would be insecurity.




If you're not weak in your faith, then why are you uncomfortable with having your ideas/beliefs deconstructed?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840532 - 02/21/09 06:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Indigenous said:
What does insecurity have to do with any of this?

Being weak in your faith would be insecurity.




If you're not weak in your faith, then why are you uncomfortable with having your ideas/beliefs deconstructed?




I didn't say that. I am not going to do it with every bitter troll on the internet. Go to bed poid.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840594 - 02/21/09 06:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
I'm just really excited tonight. I know God and He knows me. Haha it is awesome.

I know I don't post on here very much anymore, but I still remember throwing ideas around on this board. The last 18 months for me have been filled with trials, but the joy of the Lord has been with me through it all. Jesus has given me living water so that I thirst no more. I spend time in His presence and talk with Him all the time.

It all began for me with fearing God. He is God and we are mere men. We are completely at His mercy. He is good though. So good.

We are stiff necked and rebellious by nature. He will work with us though if we work with Him. He will let us go our own way too. Take a look at the world and see what happens when we do things our way. Look at the absolute poverty of nations in spiritual darkness. Why practice spiritual disciplines which obviously do nothing but ignore the problems.

There is a battle between good and evil going on.



LOL.


--------------------
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840601 - 02/21/09 06:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"About that time there was a Bible amidst all the magazines where I was sitting and I opened it up. Well every time I opened it up I it spoke about exactly what was troubling me."

Many people find that the Holy Bible specifically relates to them and their troubles, and this fact surely means that people subconsciously do this intentionally; I'm no exception, and I don't believe in "crazy", although I must admit, many people (particularly those that are considered sane) exhibit ludicrous behavior that makes them appear to be lunatics, but I understand that there's an explanation for everything, and people's behavior is no exception to this rule.

How did you ask "God" to save you? Was it your voice speaking in English talking to something that you weren't 100% sure was actually there, or were you actually communicating with some sort of divine entity?

I don't mean to be offensive, but I have known people who hear "voices", and it seems to me that it is mostly a kind of OCD, like a self-perpetuating obsessive cycle; this sort of phenomenon is very similar to when children create "imaginary friends".


In any case, to be fair, nothing that you said here can be counted as evidence for the existence of Jesus.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840650 - 02/21/09 06:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Indigenous said:
What does insecurity have to do with any of this?

Being weak in your faith would be insecurity.




If you're not weak in your faith, then why are you uncomfortable with having your ideas/beliefs deconstructed?




I didn't say that. I am not going to do it with every bitter troll on the internet. Go to bed poid.




Am I a troll to you? If you don't want to have a logical debate about this, then why are you even in this forum?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840698 - 02/21/09 06:44 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

OK

Jesus saved my life. Many others have had similar experiences and you want to write it off as an imaginary friend. I don't know of any imaginary friends which are capable of breaking a heroine addiction, helping you forgive somebody who killed your child, or giving a lunatic like myself a sober sound mind.

What would be proof enough for you?

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840707 - 02/21/09 06:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said: I don't know of any imaginary friends which are capable of breaking a heroine addiction, helping you forgive somebody who killed your child, or giving a lunatic like myself a sober sound mind.




Why bother with imaginary friends when the impetus for change ultimately comes only from yourself?


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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840709 - 02/21/09 06:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:

Am I a troll to you? If you don't want to have a logical debate about this, then why are you even in this forum?




No you aren't a troll, but we can't have a private talk on a forum.

So you think that I shouldn't be on this forum if I don't want to discuss my private business. Do you want to talk about your private business? Let me pick the topic?

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840747 - 02/21/09 06:52 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
OK

Jesus saved my life. Many others have had similar experiences and you want to write it off as an imaginary friend. I don't know of any imaginary friends which are capable of breaking a heroine addiction, helping you forgive somebody who killed your child, or giving a lunatic like myself a sober sound mind.

What would be proof enough for you?



My imaginary friend Loyd helped me kick methadone got me a girlfriend and helped me conquer mental illness.

Praise be to Loyd.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: palmersc]
    #9840766 - 02/21/09 06:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
OK

Jesus saved my life. Many others have had similar experiences and you want to write it off as an imaginary friend. I don't know of any imaginary friends which are capable of breaking a heroine addiction, helping you forgive somebody who killed your child, or giving a lunatic like myself a sober sound mind.

What would be proof enough for you?



Honestly, I've heard many people talk about how Jesus saved them, and all of them spoke with a tone that indicates that they were trying to convince themselves of something, rather then just simply telling a story.

Nothing short of direct, incontrovertible evidence of Jesus' factual existence will be proof enough for me.


Quote:

Indigenous said:
Quote:

Poid said:

Am I a troll to you? If you don't want to have a logical debate about this, then why are you even in this forum?




No you aren't a troll, but we can't have a private talk on a forum.

So you think that I shouldn't be on this forum if I don't want to discuss my private business. Do you want to talk about your private business? Let me pick the topic?



So long as it's relevant to this thread, I have absolutely no problem with talking about my private business here. Shoot.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840794 - 02/21/09 07:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I don't have any questions.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840799 - 02/21/09 07:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You asked me if you could pick the topic.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840816 - 02/21/09 07:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You said it had to be relevant to the thread.
Go to bed poid. :suicide:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840843 - 02/21/09 07:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well I don't know exactly what you meant by "personal business", but I assumed that my ideas/beliefs about God would have been included; all I want here is to have a logical discussion/debate, that's why I'm here.

It's barely 6 p.m. where I live, why would I go to bed right now?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840851 - 02/21/09 07:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

go to bed poid.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840855 - 02/21/09 07:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Go to bed poid. :suicide:




:nonono:


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Re: God is and God is good [Re: deCypher]
    #9840863 - 02/21/09 07:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Should I alert the moderators? :shrug:

This type of discussion really isn't appropriate for this forum...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840878 - 02/21/09 07:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

yes.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840882 - 02/21/09 07:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The thing is, I'm not sure if what you're doing is clearly against the rules, so I'll refrain from doing so until you clearly break the rules.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840885 - 02/21/09 07:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

It might be easier to quit badgering me with questions than to complain about my response.

Decypher is judging me. :rofl:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840900 - 02/21/09 07:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not complaining, I'm just wondering why you're not willing to debate, and instead choose to engage in this sort of behavior.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9840908 - 02/21/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I don't want to talk about this subject, is that not clear.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9840942 - 02/21/09 07:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

So then what are you doing here? Flaming? Trolling? Hurling personalisms at others?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9842535 - 02/22/09 04:15 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
I can't find the words to express how little your opinion means to me.




For someone who doesn't care, you surely are a bitchy one :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9844639 - 02/22/09 02:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I read the entire thread out of boredom.

Quote:

Indigenous said:
The people who cannot accept that other people don't believe the same thing they do are the ones who are insecure.




Quite possibly the best post in the thread besides the OP's and ska8ball's.

1) In my opinion, these arguments always have two sides with one thing in common, i.e. an attempt to convince others.  Few come to the table with an open mind or a teachable spirit.  That being the case, what's the point?

2)  This forum may be described as a "debate" forum; it wasn't always so described.  Whether a person wishes to debate or not is still up to them.  It is in no way reflective of whether or not a person can "defend" their views or beliefs, other than in the minds of some and that is dependent on their subjective interpretation of another's actions.

3)  Nowhere in the Bible does it state God created everything directly.  In the opening passages of Genesis it states God created light.  Notice that darkness was already present.  Similarly, as darkness is the absence of light, disease and death are the absence of health and life.  Pure logic.  God created the possibility of everything by creating what He actually created.  That isn't the same thing as creating everything.

:cheers:


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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9844685 - 02/22/09 03:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

God created male and female. Who created hermaphrodites?


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Re: God is and God is good [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9844704 - 02/22/09 03:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Me :smirk:

I also created shemales :yesnod:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9844838 - 02/22/09 03:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Just sounds true to me.:shrug:

I don't have time to post more non-sense right now.




I can't find the words to express how little your opinion means to me.




Gee I'm hurt.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Indigenous]
    #9844844 - 02/22/09 03:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
I don't want to talk about this subject, is that not clear.




:rofl2: That's hysterical.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9846771 - 02/22/09 08:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:

3)  Nowhere in the Bible does it state God created everything directly.  In the opening passages of Genesis it states God created light.  Notice that darkness was already present.  Similarly, as darkness is the absence of light, disease and death are the absence of health and life.  Pure logic.  God created the possibility of everything by creating what He actually created.  That isn't the same thing as creating everything.

:cheers:




I haven't read the entire Bible yet, but isn't there a passage that says that God created Satan?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Icelander]
    #9846999 - 02/22/09 09:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Indigenous said:
I don't want to talk about this subject, is that not clear.




:rofl2: That's hysterical.




Lol, sounds like something George Bush would have said.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Jufin]
    #9847117 - 02/22/09 09:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:

3)  Nowhere in the Bible does it state God created everything directly.  In the opening passages of Genesis it states God created light.  Notice that darkness was already present.  Similarly, as darkness is the absence of light, disease and death are the absence of health and life.  Pure logic.  God created the possibility of everything by creating what He actually created.  That isn't the same thing as creating everything.

:cheers:




I haven't read the entire Bible yet, but isn't there a passage that says that God created Satan?




Satan (as it goes) was an angel who turned on god, angels were supposed to have been made by god.  this would mean that god made this angel, knowing that he would turn on him, since god knows everything.  this is not logical to me

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: kennedy]
    #9847132 - 02/22/09 09:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Ha, I don't think I've ever seen the words 'logical' and 'bible' in the same paragraph before.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: kennedy]
    #9847146 - 02/22/09 09:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kennedy said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:

3)  Nowhere in the Bible does it state God created everything directly.  In the opening passages of Genesis it states God created light.  Notice that darkness was already present.  Similarly, as darkness is the absence of light, disease and death are the absence of health and life.  Pure logic.  God created the possibility of everything by creating what He actually created.  That isn't the same thing as creating everything.

:cheers:




I haven't read the entire Bible yet, but isn't there a passage that says that God created Satan?




Satan (as it goes) was an angel who turned on god, angels were supposed to have been made by god.  this would mean that god made this angel, knowing that he would turn on him, since god knows everything.  this is not logical to me




So God did create Satan? I was right! :whoo:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847205 - 02/22/09 10:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

well, I don't know.  my whole point was that a lot of the stories in the bible are paradoxical.  But according to the Bible you are right, I guess.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: kennedy]
    #9847220 - 02/22/09 10:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Have you taken the time to actually read the Holy Bible?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinekennedy
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847263 - 02/22/09 10:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

not too much of it, for that reason.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847335 - 02/22/09 10:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Have you taken the time to actually read the Holy Bible?




I've read the Jefferson Bible. :grin:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Silversoul]
    #9847352 - 02/22/09 10:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
There is no good.  There is no evil.

To create the dichotomy is to have already lost the battle.



Nonsense.  This dichotomy is the very foundation of a functioning society.




Every experience I have ever had in my life that has been negative is a result of some restriction created by society, or a residual effect thereof.

Every effect that has been positive has been against the rules, the law, or in effect totally wrong by "society's" standards.

Society is dysfunctional, and it contributes to the creation of dysfunctional people...they share a common thread, so both agree the other is normal, when in fact both are severely limited, and seek only to pat each other on the back for a job well done.

I understand how it all happened though. Like every great machine that redirects power and integrity, society started with fear. Fear of the unknown, of death, of hunger...probably the most basic fears first. Later, though, these fears would become less prevalent, hunger would, for the majority, be no issue.

New fears would emerge...fear of personal safety. Fear of being different. Fear of not being as good as everyone else. Fear of affection.

Fear, fear, fear. Ask yourself why a rule, or social order exists, and it will always go back to some fear. That fear will roll back always to fear of the unknown.

Its all a projection of the one thing that we fear most as living beings, our own unavoidable destruction.


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Rahz]
    #9847392 - 02/22/09 10:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Have you taken the time to actually read the Holy Bible?




I've read the Jefferson Bible. :grin:




Really? Was it interesting?



Quote:

kennedy said:
not too much of it, for that reason.




You're really in no place to judge it if you haven't read it with an unbiased approach. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: justamonkey]
    #9847406 - 02/22/09 10:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

justamonkey said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
There is no good.  There is no evil.

To create the dichotomy is to have already lost the battle.



Nonsense.  This dichotomy is the very foundation of a functioning society.




Every experience I have ever had in my life that has been negative is a result of some restriction created by society, or a residual effect thereof.

Every effect that has been positive has been against the rules, the law, or in effect totally wrong by "society's" standards.

Society is dysfunctional, and it contributes to the creation of dysfunctional people...they share a common thread, so both agree the other is normal, when in fact both are severely limited, and seek only to pat each other on the back for a job well done.

I understand how it all happened though. Like every great machine that redirects power and integrity, society started with fear. Fear of the unknown, of death, of hunger...probably the most basic fears first. Later, though, these fears would become less prevalent, hunger would, for the majority, be no issue.

New fears would emerge...fear of personal safety. Fear of being different. Fear of not being as good as everyone else. Fear of affection.

Fear, fear, fear. Ask yourself why a rule, or social order exists, and it will always go back to some fear. That fear will roll back always to fear of the unknown.

Its all a projection of the one thing that we fear most as living beings, our own unavoidable destruction.




Well said. :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinekennedy
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847454 - 02/22/09 10:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Have you taken the time to actually read the Holy Bible?




I've read the Jefferson Bible. :grin:




Really? Was it interesting?



Quote:

kennedy said:
not too much of it, for that reason.




You're really in no place to judge it if you haven't read it with an unbiased approach. :shrug:




I have not read it in it's entirety but I have read enough to have my opinions.  I am not trying to shut you down, I was just saying.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: kennedy]
    #9847532 - 02/22/09 10:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't think you were trying to shut me down; I'm not part of any religion, I just think that one who hasn't read a certain book with an unbiased approach is in no position to judge it. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847623 - 02/22/09 11:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Really? Was it interesting?




It's more of a Gospel than a Bible, but that's what they call it. It's a "Gospel Mix" by Thomas J. that removes references to "crazy" stuff like supernatural occurrences and miracles.

Here's how it ends:

63: There laid they Jesus,
64: And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Rahz]
    #9847669 - 02/22/09 11:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That's a pretty shitty ending... :mad2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinekennedy
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9847711 - 02/22/09 11:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I didn't think you were trying to shut me down; I'm not part of any religion, I just think that one who hasn't read a certain book with an unbiased approach is in no position to judge it. :shrug:




Ok, but I don't feel that I have to finish it for my observations to be valid, though it would help my credibility. as a kid I heard most of the stories, I am generally familiar with it.

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Re: God is and God is good [Re: kennedy]
    #9847738 - 02/22/09 11:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I suppose so, but what you hear is very different then what you read; you shouldn't base your beliefs on rumors. :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinekennedy
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Poid]
    #9848125 - 02/23/09 12:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

.....alright, I've also read quite a bit about christianity as a whole but nevermind.  this is going nowhere

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: God is and God is good [Re: Icelander]
    #9848271 - 02/23/09 01:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Gayze.
Why even discuss belief.

It's... silly?

Or at least, pointless.

Edited by Kukaracha (02/23/09 01:45 AM)

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