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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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*$&@ing wheat!
    #982907 -

I recently bought a 50lb sack of wheat for my growing activities.
I've tried precooking then pc'ing, precooking then pc'ing 24h later, even precooking then pc'ing 3 days in a row, and it still keeps coming up with wetspot after a few days. I've had to toss about 2 gallons of spoiled grain so far. It sucks to be me:(
any ideas, or should I just get some new grain?


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hmmm........

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #982921 -

try to just soak it for 12-24 hrs then pc with about a quarter inch of water in the bottom of your jar it should steam the wheat too.

do birdseed this way but hey its and idea


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of course this is all a dream and none of what i am saying is factual.

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #982962 -

Man, thats pretty lame :frown:

I havent heard much about wheat...why not just go find some birdseed, millet or rye? Soundslike its pretty prone to contams...

Have you tried washing it a lot?

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #983005 -

That's odd. I used wheat for a long time without a problem. I pre boiled and then pressure cooked in spawn bags for about two hours. How long have you been pressure cooking the jars? I don't think that new grain is necessary, with proper sterilization it shouldn't matter what the grain had on it. Sounds very frustrating, I hope you get it figured out.

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: angryshroom]
    #983028 -

I have no trouble sterilising millet, it's definitely the wheat that is the problem.
There's nowhere that sells bulk rye around here, and I was fed up buying rye from the healthfood store for ?1 a lb.
Millet is fine as a spawn, but as a plain substrate it's too dry IME.


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hmmm........

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: NeonBlack]
    #983060 -

I usually pc at 15psi for 1 hour for quart jars, which does millet and rye just fine. I'm guessing the wheat must have a huge endospore count if even pc'ing 3 days in a row doesn't kill them all.


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #983339 -

I was having this same problem wit millet, curiously enough. I surmised that it was either that the spores weren't viable or that the grain had been treated with some chemical, but that wouldn't explain the eventual wetspot contamination. I never found a solution to that problem, it actually caused to to leave mycology for a while! now i'm getting back into it, and im looking for a different substrate for my shiitake efforts.

BTW- anyone know where to get good and cheap oyster cultures in Canada?

Feet

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984495 -

I tried precooking my latest batch of wheat for 30 mins instead of the usual 40, maybe a bit less moisture will help the situation...


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984528 -

some batches are simply contam loaded, partic this time of year. if this last attempt doesn't work (also increase pc time) i'd give up - but save it for the summer, retry then


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comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: comario2]
    #984568 -

what would saving it for the summer do?


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984733 -

are you saying that pressure cooking your wheat is not sterilizing it properly? I'd increase the pc time to 2 hours. Everything should be dead. When i first used wheat, i thought i had contamination because i wasn't used to using it. It had a different color and looked different than rye.


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Shaw]
    #985201 -

>I'd increase the pc time to 2 hours. Everything should be dead.
I don't think it's possible to get grain 100% sterile at 15psi. maybe 99.999% sterile, but with extremely spore-ridden grain, as I suspect I may have, the remaining 0.001% is more than enough to mess things up.....
I've used food-grade wheat before with success, but the stuff I've got now is animal feed, and obviously a lot "dirtier".
hopefully with less water content the stubborn microbes left alive will have less of an opportunity to spread around.
I'll up the sterilisation time as well though, just to be safe.:)
or maybe I'll do a few jars for the normal length of time as controls, gotta be scientific with this stuff, right?;) 


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[Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985229 -


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985278 -

i was under the impression that there were no contaminants that could survive a heat of 250deg. How the hell does home canning work if the food your storing for years isn't steril?


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: matts]
    #985562 -

surely pressure cooking 3 days in a row is just as good, if not better than fractional sterilisation?


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Shaw]
    #985567 -

home canned food generally has a natural presevative included (I think.....I've never done it myself) eg high sugar, salt, or acid levels.


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985569 -

Same thing, just higher temperatures. If anything, it would be superior to boiling. This leads me to another possibility: contaminated innoculant. PC'ing over three days should have killed just about anything don't you think?

I also use wheat quite regularly and have never had any problems as you have described. If you don't feel the innoculant is faulty, why not try PC'ing for 90 minutes or even 120 minutes to see if that does the trick? Maybe longer exposure is what is called for.


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"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #985597 -

>This leads me to another possibility: contaminated innoculant.

the same thing occurred to me, but the same innoculant(agar wedges) does fine on millet, and even the cleanest of clean spore prints-> syringes still end up with (grrrrrrrrrrr) wetspot:mad: on the wheat.
thanks for all the advice everybody btw:)


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hmmm........

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #986117 -

the presenty high contamination of the batch might drop upon season change. i guess it also depends on whether you have enough storage space. again, for me the fall is the worst time of year for my indoor projects


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comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #986681 -

Some time back, I also bought a 50 pound bag of wheat & had the same problems with it.

At least IMHO, wheat absords more water than hard rye or millet mix. It also bloats up more, gets softer & exudses more starch.

All of which can lead to a wet spot type bacterial looking contam, in spawn jars. No matter how long you PC the puppies.

That is why I went to white & red millet based bird seed & never went back.

I fed the f*cking wheat to the birds.

6T  :tongue:


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: SixTango]
    #987326 -

yeah, even after precooking for just 30 mins there are a lot more burst grains than you would get with rye.

>I fed the f*cking wheat to the birds.
there must have been a lot of f*cking fat birds around you bit for a while:smirk:


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hmmm........

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #987353 -

It sounds like the source of your wheat may also be suspect. A bag a wheat stored in non-climate controled conditions(ie; barn/feed store in heat and humidity), whould be a great breeding ground for nasties. Try wheat from a food store and see what happens.

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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #987414 -

have you tried canning the rye? I mean straight up can the shit. Clean the rim, put the lid rubber seal down, and let it vaccum seal, then see if it contaminates. I don't think it will. I'm gunna say it has to be the innoculant or just something your doing wrong. steril is steril. vaccum can a few jars and see if they contam on there own. If there pc'd at 250deg for 90 minutes, i don't see how they could contaminate.


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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #987482 -

>Try wheat from a food store and see what happens.
I have done so, and it works almost as well as rye, though a bit less shakeable.

>I'm gunna say it has to be the innoculant or just something your doing wrong.
something that I only do wrong with this particular wheat? as I said before, I have no trouble getting millet or rye sterilised, it's not like I'm new to working with grain you know:tongue:

>steril is steril.
well, yes, sterile IS sterile. but pressure cooked grain, though it is usually effectively sterile and probably won't contaminate within the time it takes to colonise, is rarely completely utterly sterile. there's always a small proportion of endospores that manage to survive, and if the original endospore load is very high this small surviving proportion can be large enough to produce problems.
anyhoo, I'm just repeating myself now....


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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