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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
*$&@ing wheat!
    #982907 - 10/22/02 03:12 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I recently bought a 50lb sack of wheat for my growing activities.
I've tried precooking then pc'ing, precooking then pc'ing 24h later, even precooking then pc'ing 3 days in a row, and it still keeps coming up with wetspot after a few days. I've had to toss about 2 gallons of spoiled grain so far. It sucks to be me:(
any ideas, or should I just get some new grain?


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Offlinecaptiveball
just anotherbuddah
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 30
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #982921 - 10/22/02 03:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

try to just soak it for 12-24 hrs then pc with about a quarter inch of water in the bottom of your jar it should steam the wheat too.

do birdseed this way but hey its and idea


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of course this is all a dream and none of what i am saying is factual.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #982962 - 10/22/02 03:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Man, thats pretty lame :frown:

I havent heard much about wheat...why not just go find some birdseed, millet or rye? Soundslike its pretty prone to contams...

Have you tried washing it a lot?


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OfflineNeonBlack
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Registered: 11/24/00
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #983005 - 10/22/02 03:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That's odd. I used wheat for a long time without a problem. I pre boiled and then pressure cooked in spawn bags for about two hours. How long have you been pressure cooking the jars? I don't think that new grain is necessary, with proper sterilization it shouldn't matter what the grain had on it. Sounds very frustrating, I hope you get it figured out.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: angryshroom]
    #983028 - 10/22/02 03:30 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have no trouble sterilising millet, it's definitely the wheat that is the problem.
There's nowhere that sells bulk rye around here, and I was fed up buying rye from the healthfood store for ?1 a lb.
Millet is fine as a spawn, but as a plain substrate it's too dry IME.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: NeonBlack]
    #983060 - 10/22/02 03:35 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I usually pc at 15psi for 1 hour for quart jars, which does millet and rye just fine. I'm guessing the wheat must have a huge endospore count if even pc'ing 3 days in a row doesn't kill them all.


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Offlinesandy feet
Arab
Registered: 10/22/02
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #983339 - 10/22/02 04:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I was having this same problem wit millet, curiously enough. I surmised that it was either that the spores weren't viable or that the grain had been treated with some chemical, but that wouldn't explain the eventual wetspot contamination. I never found a solution to that problem, it actually caused to to leave mycology for a while! now i'm getting back into it, and im looking for a different substrate for my shiitake efforts.

BTW- anyone know where to get good and cheap oyster cultures in Canada?

Feet


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984495 - 10/22/02 09:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I tried precooking my latest batch of wheat for 30 mins instead of the usual 40, maybe a bit less moisture will help the situation...


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984528 - 10/22/02 09:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

some batches are simply contam loaded, partic this time of year. if this last attempt doesn't work (also increase pc time) i'd give up - but save it for the summer, retry then


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comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: comario2]
    #984568 - 10/22/02 09:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

what would saving it for the summer do?


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OfflineShaw
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Registered: 06/28/01
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Loc: midwest, usa
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #984733 - 10/22/02 10:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

are you saying that pressure cooking your wheat is not sterilizing it properly? I'd increase the pc time to 2 hours. Everything should be dead. When i first used wheat, i thought i had contamination because i wasn't used to using it. It had a different color and looked different than rye.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Shaw]
    #985201 - 10/23/02 01:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

>I'd increase the pc time to 2 hours. Everything should be dead.
I don't think it's possible to get grain 100% sterile at 15psi. maybe 99.999% sterile, but with extremely spore-ridden grain, as I suspect I may have, the remaining 0.001% is more than enough to mess things up.....
I've used food-grade wheat before with success, but the stuff I've got now is animal feed, and obviously a lot "dirtier".
hopefully with less water content the stubborn microbes left alive will have less of an opportunity to spread around.
I'll up the sterilisation time as well though, just to be safe.:)
or maybe I'll do a few jars for the normal length of time as controls, gotta be scientific with this stuff, right?;) 


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Invisiblematts
matts

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 3,649
[Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985229 - 10/23/02 01:14 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineShaw
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985278 - 10/23/02 01:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i was under the impression that there were no contaminants that could survive a heat of 250deg. How the hell does home canning work if the food your storing for years isn't steril?


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: matts]
    #985562 - 10/23/02 03:47 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

surely pressure cooking 3 days in a row is just as good, if not better than fractional sterilisation?


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Shaw]
    #985567 - 10/23/02 03:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

home canned food generally has a natural presevative included (I think.....I've never done it myself) eg high sugar, salt, or acid levels.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,333
Loc: Playa del Carmen
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #985569 - 10/23/02 03:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Same thing, just higher temperatures. If anything, it would be superior to boiling. This leads me to another possibility: contaminated innoculant. PC'ing over three days should have killed just about anything don't you think?

I also use wheat quite regularly and have never had any problems as you have described. If you don't feel the innoculant is faulty, why not try PC'ing for 90 minutes or even 120 minutes to see if that does the trick? Maybe longer exposure is what is called for.


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"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #985597 - 10/23/02 04:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

>This leads me to another possibility: contaminated innoculant.

the same thing occurred to me, but the same innoculant(agar wedges) does fine on millet, and even the cleanest of clean spore prints-> syringes still end up with (grrrrrrrrrrr) wetspot:mad: on the wheat.
thanks for all the advice everybody btw:)


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #986117 - 10/23/02 11:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the presenty high contamination of the batch might drop upon season change. i guess it also depends on whether you have enough storage space. again, for me the fall is the worst time of year for my indoor projects


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comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: *$&@ing wheat! [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #986681 - 10/23/02 03:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Some time back, I also bought a 50 pound bag of wheat & had the same problems with it.

At least IMHO, wheat absords more water than hard rye or millet mix. It also bloats up more, gets softer & exudses more starch.

All of which can lead to a wet spot type bacterial looking contam, in spawn jars. No matter how long you PC the puppies.

That is why I went to white & red millet based bird seed & never went back.

I fed the f*cking wheat to the birds.

6T  :tongue:


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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