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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinegnrm23
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yakub ben yosef
    #982584 - 10/22/02 01:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

cnn:
a funeral box with aramaic inscription translating "james, son of joseph, brother of jesus" has been made public in jerusalem...
james the just, martyred early leader of the jerusalem christian community (death utterance: 'forgive them, they do not know what they are doing' ; mentioned in josephus' history of the jewish rebellion, late 1st century c.e.)
~
shalom
~


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Offlinenubious
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: gnrm23]
    #982694 - 10/22/02 01:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Can you imagine being the little bro' of Jesus? That's some pretty damn high expectations to meet...


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: gnrm23]
    #982763 - 10/22/02 02:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

but a brother who would show you the way, and most certainly NOT by making you read the bible...  :grin:


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Edited by Lozt Soul (10/22/02 02:23 PM)


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Offlinenubious
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: In(di)go]
    #982783 - 10/22/02 02:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

true enough, and I don't mean to get Sclorch-ish on you, but the bible wasn't written when Jesus was up and kicken' it




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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: nubious]
    #982790 - 10/22/02 02:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

sclorch-ish... lol

i know i know... but the bible used to contain a lot of jesus' teachings... until the church removed everything he ever said about reincarnation and meditation from it... so it has sadly become a mass manipulation tool...


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OfflineKemist
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: In(di)go]
    #982821 - 10/22/02 02:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

you know i dont really know much about the teachings of jesus ... well i mean what the church didn't touch, before it was fucked up.

any links, books, or a elabortion by you.

thanx in advance


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: Kemist]
    #983408 - 10/22/02 04:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

do a websearch on the gospel of thomas


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: Kemist]
    #983416 - 10/22/02 04:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

gnrm23- I read that today, too... I was wondering how soon it would be posted here. hehehe

Kemist: you know i dont really know much about the teachings of jesus ... well i mean what the church didn't touch, before it was fucked up.
any links, books, or a elabortion by you.


Scholar's Translation of the GoT
Gospel of Thomas Homepage
GoT FAQ


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGrowingVines
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: Sclorch]
    #983450 - 10/22/02 05:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

so what all did the church remove from the bibles teachings?


peace out my brothers for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: GrowingVines]
    #983501 - 10/22/02 05:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It isn't so much what the removed as what the decided not to include...

Basically anything that could not be "proven" legit and anything that they didn't understand or that went against the churches motives was left out...

Read the gospel of thomas for a good example of something that was left out...


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: GrowingVines]
    #983567 - 10/22/02 05:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

so what all did the church remove from the bibles teachings?




Many things. Relating to this case, Josephus writings have some importance for judaism not christianism, although he describes some part of the christian rising, the church doesn't give almost any credit to him.
To some, his books about judaic insurection should not be taken as historicals facts by many reasons. One that causes many disputes is the history about Masada insurection, there are several aspects on Josephus writtings that contradic many archeological findings, his description are taken as dubious in some points. Some even refuse to quote him.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: In(di)go]
    #984633 - 10/22/02 10:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Transmigration - metempsychosis - called 'gilgul' in Jewish mysticism (Kabbala) first appeared in the Sefer ha Bahir in 1180 A.D. Except for the passage attributed to Jesus in John 3:3, which is about a spiritual birth ("...Spirit gives birth to spirit"), there is no real doctrine of either reincarnation or rebirth in the New or Old Testaments. That certain Church fathers such as Origen, who was considered heretical later on, spoke of transmigration, and the doctrine thrown out of Christianity at the Council of Chalcedon in 553 A.D. (because it afforded too much time for the process of salvation), it has never had a real place in Christianity proper, and only in mystical Jewish circles. Jesus did not teach this for the good reason that the essence of Man (called the Inner Man by Paul) is of a spiritual nature, not a psychic nature. It is a 'psychic' understanding of man (as soul or psyche, not spirit) that understands man to be a discreet entity capable of transmigrating.

Meditation in a Biblical sense means a dwelling upon scriptural words. Contemplation of a wordless, imageless apprehension of God's immediate Presence, was never layed out systematicaly as it was in say, Indian religion. In Christianity, the Ultimate state is only partly available to us (partially realized eschatology it is called) unless we are mystics. John's Gospel, and moreso, Thomas' Gospel takes us to an contemplative awareness of God's presence, here and now. This is developed most systematically by the Greek Orthodox Hesychast (Tranquility) monks of Mt. Athos, Greece, who seek to 'find the Place of the Heart' by way of the Jesus Prayer.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/22/02 10:14 PM)


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #985181 - 10/23/02 12:56 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

escellent post markos! thanks for your info... it is greatly apprecieated


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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #985373 - 10/23/02 01:56 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: World Spirit]
    #985821 - 10/23/02 07:44 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Dude, in your zeal to show me up, you failed to actually comprehend my post. Read it again - slow-ly. It does speak to being born of the Spirit. I was referring to the Hindu and Buddhist conceptions of Reincarnation and Rebirth - RESPECTIVELY, because those doctrines of metempsychosis are markedly different from one another.

The reappearance of Elijah is so taken-for-granted in Jewish culture, that it was established in the crucifixion stories, so that when Jesus prayed the 22nd Psalm's first line: "Eli, Eli lama sabachthani?" ["My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?"], onlookers thought He was calling for 'Eli,' or Elijah to reappear, as predicted. Moreover, throughout childhood, at Passover; a child was asked to go to the door and answer a knock. In my family, the folks would prop up a mop with a bag and face, that would fall into the room and startle the child. Jewish joke - you'd have to be there. See, at Passover, you set an extra place setting for Elijah the Prophet to join you at the table.

LIGHTEN UP enter. You take the serious stuff lightly, and the light stuff too
seriously. This Elijah stuff is Jewish folklore - has been since the time of Jesus - it ain't doctrine or immutable Truth. Silly Goyim.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: In(di)go]
    #985825 - 10/23/02 07:48 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks. We all seek clarity - can't stand the haze of half-truths m'self - hard to live by 'em.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #986224 - 10/23/02 12:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #986238 - 10/23/02 12:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

in the christian gospels, jesus asks his followers who people say that he is; and recieves answers such as: elijah, moses, john the baptist...
when he asks simon peter ("rocky") the answer is "the annointed, the messiah, the son of the living god"...
~
balanced at the cusp of the eternal return & the eschaton...
~
~


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #986263 - 10/23/02 12:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

?
in man's center lives the truth
?
(oy, like 35+ years since latin classes for me... can a dead language acquire rust? or at least patina? :wink: ...)
~
heh, remember what happens to heretics who fall into the hands of those who keep pure the truth...
hus
eckart
the waldenses
...
censure
silencing
excommunication
cleansing fire
~
ouch
~
~
shalom
miru mir
shanti


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: gnrm23]
    #987163 - 10/23/02 06:10 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

'Truth Lives in the Inner Person' was the translation I used, but I like yours even better! Wow! How is it that you took Latin? Catholic school?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: World Spirit]
    #987175 - 10/23/02 06:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, well I think you're wrong, and your brain farted.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: gnrm23]
    #987188 - 10/23/02 06:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Good point. I rather find those responses in the 'as if' category, rather than as transmigrated 'souls'. Another powerful Man of Spirit making an appearance on Earth in the Hebrew tradition - this One, however, seeming to embody a Wholly Other order of Being in his being.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #988076 - 10/24/02 12:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #988118 - 10/24/02 12:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Whenever I find myself in a situation that involves intangibles I try to rely on this truth which is as fitting as it is obscure.  It's germane.  Dig it! :smile:

"Don't you ever listen?
Don't you ever learn?
The hand may find you
It's time to take a turn
You think this life is something strange
You're ready for another change
But don't you ever learn?

Don't you ever listen?
Don't you ever learn?
The world is on fire
Your body doesn't burn
Kill yourself before receiving
Something out of all this breathing
Don't you ever learn?" 


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: World Spirit]
    #988777 - 10/24/02 06:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

but
butt
butte
whatever (ignore the spelling police, hehheh....)
catalico gymnasium? nein!
2 years latin in cincinnati OH public school (sycamore h.s., in montgomery/blue ash suburb)(& then 2 yrs deutsch in erie PA - mcdowell h.s. in millcreek)
oh ya, the door propped open for a heavenly visitor, an extra glass of wine poured, eat standing up... ready to depart at a moments notice... if christians & jews only knew how deeply intertwined are the traditions of the lord's supper and the passover feast... ah well...
~
no need for sniping fellas... just the inevitable friction between lteralists and universalists (hehheh...)
~
how can i accept christianity as "a way" (or even "the right way for me") while acknowledging that it is indeed not "the only way" to "know god" ?
please, no pogroms, no holy inquisitions, no holy wars, no witch burnings, no heretic hunts...
~
~


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: World Spirit]
    #988890 - 10/24/02 07:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hey, I'm impressed with other's linguistic abilities - ones that I do not have the capacity for. You, on the other hand spell 'subtle' as "suttle," and 'butt' as "but" so a lesson in humility still needs to be learned here. Can't tell a compliment from a kiss-up? Kiss-ups are sleazy manipulative attempts to curry favor; compliments acknowledge truth, appreciatively. No dictionary needed.

Cut down on the DHEA, it's giving you a nasty edge, unbecoming to a 'Son of Light.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/24/02 06:10 PM)


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #988982 - 10/24/02 09:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i wonder if the DHEA is giving me the occasional pimple (i mean i'm no teener by 3 decades, sheesh...)
~
so be ye subtile as serpents, but wary as doves :wink: ...
~
no spika da inglis...
~
hey who you callin' goyim? (can i be a shabbes goy?)(i know there  jewish community/school over in euclid... well  maybe next year... i know zero hebrew... but mebbe a smattering of yiddish --- love leo rosten's lexicons, hey...)
~
for most of my christian (lutheran) co-religionists i am way too universalist/pantheist/heterodox... and for most of my pagan friends (c.a.w., wiccan, a.d.f. etcetc...) i am way too ummmm monotheist traditionalist... is it time to join u.u. ? well, float for another 3 years, see if i can release gnostic redeemer zen lutheran church of n.a. (ver. 1.1.a.) - eventually...
~
birdies fly away, empty the nest soon (soon enough? well...) and someone right to share the decades remaining to us... inshallah...
what makes life the sweetest?
bestest and completest?
not a big doll house
or a mickey mouse
but the right somebody to love
(mama cass sang this on "papas & mamas" ...)
~
didn't the preacher koholeth say something about "two being better than one" ? truly, truly, i say unto you, i miss the snuggling more than i miss the sex...
so has anybody read joseph heller's incredibly funny (& sad...) _god knows_ ?
god only knows...
~
lucky for us the world is spinning; otherwise, all the chinese would fall off...
~
~
gesundheit
~


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: gnrm23]
    #990160 - 10/24/02 05:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Dear Neal Cassady sounding rambling madman gnrm23 -
Yes, I'm getting pimples on my arms and chest from the DHEA. The wife made me cut down from 10 to 5mg, 'cause she said I was becoming too aggressive! Why, I'll bitch-slap the...only kidding :smile: [please don't tell her I said that]. Only been on the juice for about 6 weeks - got stronger and tore up my shoulder on the bench press trying to outdo Ronny Coleman or the Hulk - well, not really, but it has made a difference that I also enjoy, as does my bud enter, but I'm not getting edgy.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/24/02 05:57 PM)


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Re: yakub ben yosef [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #990362 - 10/24/02 07:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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