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Mr.Stompy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 13shrooms]
#15343104 - 11/09/11 03:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wait...
If the mushrooms create psilocybin for protection, is there a way to provoke them to create more if they feel threatened?
I'm sure you all know what I'm getting at.
Edited by Mr.Stompy (11/09/11 03:22 AM)
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PreparationH
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Mr.Stompy]
#15343129 - 11/09/11 03:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Time to start water boarding your mushrooms, hahaha
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NOMADIC
Stillofsymon
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: downhome]
#15344819 - 11/09/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
downhome said:
Quote:
MrGreen said: Well, I'm no expert on this so take my word I could be horribly wrong.
But the substance psilocybin doesn't make us trip, it's when it changes into a psilicin inside of our bodies that makes us hallucinate?
So, perhaps psilocybin has an entirely different use for the mushroom, genetics perhaps.
Mushroom blood( ha ha )
It all comes down to serotonin. Psilocybin, DMT, even LSD are all chemically similar to serotonin. So when they get in our bloodstream and then into the brain, the stick to serotonin receptors. The human brain has 7 different serotonin receptors that we know about. Well at least knows at the time the book i read about it was wrote. haha 2006 i think. Maybe there are more now!
psilocybin and psilocin are forms of dmt , 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine and 4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine respectively .
sry for beating a dead horse and posting on an old tread. just thought it was a very interesting topic
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: NOMADIC]
#15345837 - 11/09/11 05:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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all these are derivitives of the amino acid tryptophan
better move this to chemistry and pharmacology...
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NOMADIC
Stillofsymon
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Freedom]
#15346277 - 11/09/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: all these are derivitives of the amino acid tryptophan
better move this to chemistry and pharmacology...
^^Agreed
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psily]
#15346364 - 11/09/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Guys, come on. The answer is pretty simple. The purpose of psilocybin in shrooms is to get me high. Come on guys. It's not that complicated.
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bublehash
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: White Beard]
#15346424 - 11/09/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mushrooms produce Psilocin and Psilocybin for surviaval, to attract humans to help spread them. Just like girls attract boys to spread their seed. Mushroom spores are from space and spread universal conscienceness for universal survival. DUH!!
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a2thej
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: NOMADIC]
#15346816 - 11/09/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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they create it so that we may enter altered states of consciousness and tap into all knowledge duhhhh
everyone knows that.....
-------------------- If i didnt leave u a trade rating plz remind me
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Fatherroot
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: a2thej]
#18418493 - 06/14/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Interesting. I typed on google why psilocybin is produced by magic mushrooms and it landed me on Shroomery. Good to know that this place is the authority on such a matter. (Forgive the bump of an old thread, but I feel like this is a great question and could be explored further.)
Does anyone know how long a spore can last in the total vacuum of space. Specifically, can it outlast something, say like a pot seed? Someone in this thread had asked the question why the universe chose a mushroom to store the information that psilocybin, and the other chemicals involved, help spread into our minds when ingested.
Quote:
5HR00M5N4K3 said: back on its home planet the metapsyche had to figure out a way by which to manifest itself materially throughout the cosmos. it evolved into sporulating fungus so its progeny could be carried through vast expanses of space, time, and the cold darkness of outer space. it then grows mycelium under particular conditions that are corollary to the likelihood of mammal life. this is all just so YOU can eat it.
so, the question isn't, why is there psilocybin in mushrooms, but instead, why did psilocybin choose mushrooms. but i just answered that.
One, I think is because a lot of mushrooms live off of the most basic and lowest level of life, decaying matter. If I were the creator I would probably pick the mushroom too. It's rather difficult to evolve intelligent life or complex organisms like trees and flowers that tend to have a very specific requirement to survive. While mushrooms are fairly "open-minded" when it comes to growing environment conditions. This included low light requirements. Mushrooms would be one of the last living things to exist on a dying planet. One, again, because they grow on the decaying matter of the last remains of that life on the dying planet. And two, if the sun starting dying the amount of light to sustain a living thing on a planet becomes an issue, one that a mushroom would not have, as it could probably grow from the light of a distant star rather than a near star (sun).
-------------------- "The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring there." — Robert Pirsig
Edited by Fatherroot (06/14/13 11:43 AM)
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Zanthius
Mean Alien
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 1,570
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psily]
#18419720 - 06/14/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
exzile said: Im new to the board - many thanks for the invaluable info! I have a question and hope someone already knows it or can point me in the right direction. I was wondering what is the purpose of psilocybin for the shroom, i.e. is it to help it fight bacteria, molds, insects, nematodes - what?
Well... our neurotransmitters are doorways to different types of consciousness. Psilocybin is a tryptamine, and has a structure that is similar to serotonin produced in our brains. Mycelium is somewhat similar in structure to our neural networks. Maybe psilocybin is used as a neurotransmitter in the mycelium of a mushroom? In any case, I think its main function in mushrooms is to serve as a doorway to consciousness, just like the main function of serotonin might be to serve as a doorway to consciousness in our brains.
We humans all live in a serotonin/dopamine/glutamate-consciousness. Sentient fungi live in a psilocybin-consciousness. It just means they have a somewhat different type of consciousness I guess. We humans all have more or less the same type of consciousness, because we produce more or less the same neurotransmitters. When we use drugs like psilocybin our consciousness is somewhat altered. We get more in tune with the consciousness shared by sentient fungi. Sentient fungi is more interconnected with its environment, so we also feel more interconnected with our environment when we consume psilocybin. If a sentient fungi consumes our neurotransmitters it will probably feel more separated from its environment.
Edited by Zanthius (06/14/13 05:12 PM)
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Fatherroot
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Zanthius]
#18419846 - 06/14/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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So, what is happening is the mycelium network is actually the alternate dimensional networking of your brain under the sobriety of reality. When you take a mushroom that was picked from that network you are actually eating a thought from the brain of your alternate omni-dimensional self about what your trip is going to be like. Of course this is only happening in a dream that you're having in a completely different dimension. On the back of a turtle flying through space, can't forget that part.
-------------------- "The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring there." — Robert Pirsig
Edited by Fatherroot (06/14/13 05:26 PM)
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Space Monkey
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psily]
#18419890 - 06/14/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you ask Terence McKenna, aliens from outer space placed them here to accelerate our evolution.
I don't know the secrets of the universe. It certainly does work as a defense mechanism against all lifeforms aside from humans. Sometimes it even works against humans, like McKenna for the last decade of his life, lol.
In all reality, I don't know, but these substances do intrigue me deeply, and for some reason the Stoned Ape Theory doesn't sound entirely insane...
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Zanthius
Mean Alien
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Fatherroot]
#18422620 - 06/15/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fatherroot said: So, what is happening is the mycelium network is actually the alternate dimensional networking of your brain under the sobriety of reality. When you take a mushroom that was picked from that network you are actually eating a thought from the brain of your alternate omni-dimensional self about what your trip is going to be like. Of course this is only happening in a dream that you're having in a completely different dimension. On the back of a turtle flying through space, can't forget that part.
Well... psilocybin might be a doorway to the type of consciousness best suited for fungi, just like dopamine might be a doorway to the type of consciousness best suited for animals. Animals have bodies that are much more separated from the rest of the universe than fungi. So animals need a type of consciousness which makes them think of themselves as more separated from the rest of the universe. The doorway to this type of consciousness is probably dopamine. Fungi have bodies that can expand into their environment. So a consciousness that makes you feel more connected to the rest of the universe is better suited for fungi.
Animals and fungi have evolved to find the consciousness best suited for them. An animal with psilocybin-consciousness would probably be less able to survive than an animal with dopamine-consciousness. A fungi with dopamine-consciousness would probably also be less able to expand into its environment than a fungi with psilocybin-consciousness. We have all evolved to get the consciousness best suited for us.
Edited by Zanthius (06/15/13 10:04 AM)
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PreparationH
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Zanthius]
#18422846 - 06/15/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Animals and fungi have evolved to find the consciousness best suited for them."
No. Just... No.
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Zanthius
Mean Alien
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Posts: 1,570
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: PreparationH]
#18423610 - 06/15/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PreparationH said: "Animals and fungi have evolved to find the consciousness best suited for them."
No. Just... No.
People seem to think that the alteration in consciousness comes from stimulation of the receptor, rather than from the drug/neurotransmitter. But any different molecule will interact with any specific receptor in a unique way. It isn't necessarily true that all 5-HT2A receptor agonists will have the same effect on the 5-HT2A receptor. Any difference in the molecule is likely to induce a different effect on the receptor. So how can we then say that the alteration in consciousness comes from activation of the receptor, rather than from the drug/neurotransmitter itself? It is actually more specific to say that the alteration in consciousness comes from the drug/neurotransmitter, as different agonists of the same receptor can activate the receptor in different ways.
People seem to think that consciousness is an attribute of the neural network, rather than of the neurotransmitter. But the most direct link we have to consciousness comes from drugs/neurotransmitters, not from artificial neural networks. You might argue that very strong magnetic fields, or electrodes inserted into the brain also can alter consciousness. Well, that is true, but how can we know that this alteration isn't caused by a subsequent increase or decrease in the amount of certain neurotransmitters?
People need to start thinking of the possibility that neural networks are devoid of any consciousness, unless they have neurotransmitters that link the neural networks to consciousness.
Edited by Zanthius (06/15/13 03:06 PM)
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hTx
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Zanthius]
#18423956 - 06/15/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe we are in a symbiotic relationship with all plants/fungi, the chemicals they produce and the drugs we discover within them seem almost specifically designed, by there DNA or whatever, to be consumed by us, humans specifically.
Why is that?
The question of the purpose of all drugs is probably hugely important on some level...we know they change our brain chemistry up and this in turn effects how one feels which in turn effects how one sees and interacts with their environment...but why?
We as a human species are almost driven mechanically to seek out these experiences with chemicals that alter our experience with reality. I think they as a species are almost mechanically driven to seek out us as well. Coffee, psychedelics, herbs of every nature..I think what is happening is some sort of exchange of information, a mutual teaching perhaps.
Probably not though, i'm never right.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Fatherroot
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: hTx]
#18424158 - 06/15/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: I believe we are in a symbiotic relationship with all plants/fungi, the chemicals they produce and the drugs we discover within them seem almost specifically designed, by there DNA or whatever, to be consumed by us, humans specifically.
Why is that?
The question of the purpose of all drugs is probably hugely important on some level...we know they change our brain chemistry up and this in turn effects how one feels which in turn effects how one sees and interacts with their environment...but why?
We as a human species are almost driven mechanically to seek out these experiences with chemicals that alter our experience with reality. I think they as a species are almost mechanically driven to seek out us as well. Coffee, psychedelics, herbs of every nature..I think what is happening is some sort of exchange of information, a mutual teaching perhaps.
Probably not though, i'm never right.
Interesting.
-------------------- "The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring there." — Robert Pirsig
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: hTx]
#18424164 - 06/15/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I believe we are in a symbiotic relationship with all plants/fungi, the chemicals they produce and the drugs we discover within them seem almost specifically designed, by there DNA or whatever, to be consumed by us, humans specifically.
Eat a few Death Angels then give us a report on symbiosis.
--------------------
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hTx
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I think you are misunderstanding the relationship, all mushrooms are symbiotic in the sense they help maintain the natural balance of things in nature, we are nature, despite what your ego tells you. It was stated earlier in the thread that fungi serve well and thrive turning decaying matter into energy (to grow).
Perhaps chemical compounds in the form of mind-altering substance serve a symbiotic purpose as well, both for the plant/fungi and the one consuming them.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Molybdites
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: hTx]
#18536362 - 07/09/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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If the purpose of psychoactives in plants is for humans to consume them, then why must some plants be consumed in special ways? It is easy to feel the effects of mushrooms because you can just eat them, but for whatever plant is used in auyahuasca, another compound must be added in order to feel the effects. And cannabis must be smoked or cooked to release the thc (or maybe you can just eat cannabis as it is, I don't really know). It seems like those two plants aren't really making it easy for people to feel the effects. And a certain kind of frog releases a chemical on its skin that is similar to psilocybin, but I would assume that the frog does not want to be eaten! And it is not trying to spread its spores or seeds.
I would agree with other people that the mushrooms produce psilocybin as a product of some metabolic process and that maybe psilocybin does not provide a great benefit to the mushrooms. I have no experience growing mushrooms, but I think that there can be great variance in the psilocybin content of mushrooms. I think cubes can be grown and have no psilocybin content or very little of it or they can be grown with a large psilocybin content. I think this means that the psilocybin content has to do with the nutrients that the fungus is getting from the soil, and that is the fungus ingests a certain nutrient or food, it will make psilocybin as a byproduct.
If the point of psilocybin is to deter predators, then wouldn't psilocybin also be present in the mycelium and not just the mushroom? Is psilocybin present in the mycelium of active mushrooms? I don't know. If it is not present in the mycelium, then it would seem that the mushroom is "dumping" its waste chemicals into the mushroom to get rid of them. And also if the point is to deter predators, why does the amount of the chemical vary so much in the mushrooms? Shouldn't a process so important as protection against predators be done in a consistent manner?
What if the fungus can detect predators and it varies its content of psilocybin to compensate for the threat or lack of a threat from predators? Then why would cubensis produce psilocybin in a grower's jar when there are far fewer predators in the jar than in nature?
And if it is a product of a metabolic process, what does this mean for the similarity of all of the organisms that produce chemicals similar to psilocybin. Like the toad, things that have lots of Dmt in them, morning glory seeds... Does this means they all metabolize in similar ways that produce similar chemicals or that they have similar "body parts" that produce these chemicals? What part of the frog makes the chemical? And what part of the fungus makes the psilocybin and how similar are these organisms? Is this convergent or divergent evolution? And how come Psilocybin is present in many different species of mushrooms but I only know of one 3 mushrooms that contain ibotenic acid and mucimol: Amanita muscaria, panterina and some other one.
If these questions have already been asked in this thread, I am sorry, I didn't want to read all 8 pages
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