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InvisibleJef
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9824058 - 02/19/09 12:54 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How 'bout this.

Fly is attracted by mushroom.  Likes it even better than shit.

Eats mushroom, gets stoned, falls off, lies there stoned while spores fall all over it's furry ass.

Fly wakes up purple from spores. (Immature) Other flies make fun of purple colour and accuse it of being gay.

Fly's self esteem suffers, so it flies off to eat shit, planting spores on shit.

Sound like a good evolutionary strategy ?

Anyone ?

Of course, we'll never know.


:gameover:


--------------------
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Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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OfflineBigJonMud
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: SyeinStrife]
    #9824083 - 02/19/09 01:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think Psilocybin is simply one of the neurotransmitters that another highly intelligent and sentient consciousness has evolved, that can bridge the gaps between spaces.

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Invisiblearchivist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: BigJonMud]
    #9825645 - 02/19/09 10:33 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There is no right answer.  I don't get why you guys are getting so caught up about trying to prove each other wrong.

Anyway, here's another way to look at it:

Shrooms make psilocybin and psilocin because of their appeal to the human psyche.  We, for the most part, enjoy its entheogenic and euphoric qualities.  Now all of us fuckers around the world are cultivating it to trip balls.  I'd say that is "teh win" from an evolutionary perspective for the psilocybes. :smile:


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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9825819 - 02/19/09 11:10 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
BTW,

i'm nobody to say whether or not hallucinogenic mushrooms thought they'd be defendin' theyselves by making psilocybin.  i have no clue really.  just sayin' that one person's 'reasoning' should be abandoned immediately.




I'm about to go eat chinese, so I'll tear apart your argument in a second... First let me clarify this:  Your belief that "one person's reasoning should be abandoned immediately" shows a complete lack of anything remotely resembling human intelligence.  If you hadn't destroyed any credibility you have in this argument already, that statement alone's left you fucked.

One person's reasoning is why we discovered the Earth was round.  One person's reasoning is why we discovered that the Earth was NOT the center of the universe.  One person's reasoning's are how everything in human history (yes, even pre-recorded) has been discovered and learned.  History shows that one man is always responsible for the dreams, thoughts and visions that propel technological and scientific advancements. 

So, do yourself a favor, boy.  Never come through here and make such a piss poor attempt to contradict anything when you make statements and arguments that wouldn't hold up in a debate with my 15 month old son.

You better grow some wings for your argument, kid; 'cause it isn't standin on shit.

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OfflineBasement Boy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9826017 - 02/19/09 11:50 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
BTW,

i'm nobody to say whether or not hallucinogenic mushrooms thought they'd be defendin' theyselves by making psilocybin.  i have no clue really.  just sayin' that one person's 'reasoning' should be abandoned immediately.




I'm about to go eat chinese, so I'll tear apart your argument in a second... First let me clarify this:  Your belief that "one person's reasoning should be abandoned immediately" shows a complete lack of anything remotely resembling human intelligence.  If you hadn't destroyed any credibility you have in this argument already, that statement alone's left you fucked.

One person's reasoning is why we discovered the Earth was round.  One person's reasoning is why we discovered that the Earth was NOT the center of the universe.  One person's reasoning's are how everything in human history (yes, even pre-recorded) has been discovered and learned.  History shows that one man is always responsible for the dreams, thoughts and visions that propel technological and scientific advancements. 

So, do yourself a favor, boy.  Never come through here and make such a piss poor attempt to contradict anything when you make statements and arguments that wouldn't hold up in a debate with my 15 month old son.

You better grow some wings for your argument, kid; 'cause it isn't standin on shit.




And that is what we call getting spanked!
:spank:


--------------------
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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Basement Boy]
    #9826246 - 02/19/09 12:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

your just a big meanie!  :rofl2:

:onfire:

:matrix2:

:popcorn:


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9826585 - 02/19/09 01:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
BTW,

i'm nobody to say whether or not hallucinogenic mushrooms thought they'd be defendin' theyselves by making psilocybin.  i have no clue really.  just sayin' that one person's 'reasoning' should be abandoned immediately.




I'm about to go eat chinese, so I'll tear apart your argument in a second... First let me clarify this:  Your belief that "one person's reasoning should be abandoned immediately" shows a complete lack of anything remotely resembling human intelligence.  If you hadn't destroyed any credibility you have in this argument already, that statement alone's left you fucked.

One person's reasoning is why we discovered the Earth was round.  One person's reasoning is why we discovered that the Earth was NOT the center of the universe.  One person's reasoning's are how everything in human history (yes, even pre-recorded) has been discovered and learned.  History shows that one man is always responsible for the dreams, thoughts and visions that propel technological and scientific advancements. 

So, do yourself a favor, boy.  Never come through here and make such a piss poor attempt to contradict anything when you make statements and arguments that wouldn't hold up in a debate with my 15 month old son.

You better grow some wings for your argument, kid; 'cause it isn't standin on shit.




:gameover:

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Invisibleshaggydogman
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Damion5050]
    #9827162 - 02/19/09 03:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting thread. May I offer my thoughts.

Survival and reproduction are the main goals of pretty much any species.
I think there are over the history of this planet many successful and unsuccessful attempts by organisms to do this. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that about 98% of the species that have ever been on earth are now extinct.

The shroom having psilocybin does seem be successful.

So is it a defense mechanism linked to survival. Personally, I don't think so.

So reproduction? The presence of psilocybin does seem to make the fruit attractive to various animals.

I think there seems to be a symbiotic relationship between herbivores and the shroom.
How do spores get into cow pats? I presume the cows eat the shrooms. Walk across the field and then deposits the spores along with substrate ready for the next growth of shroom, the next meal and so on.

I wonder if this is a joint evolution.
An animal shows a preference for eating shrooms knows are stronger in psilocybin which leads to the evolution of stronger and strong strains.
Maybe a cow remembers the shrooms that made it feel best and remembers where it shits the next day. When the next generation fruits grows from those shits those are the ones it goes for.

Yes, that's right, I think herbivors could well be shroom farmers!!! lol
Shrooms, selectivly bred by cows without the aid of a microscope or oust!

Then man discovered the effect and the monotub was born.
Like wheat, the shrooms future in the world is assured as long as man survives!!!


--------------------
Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy
Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: shaggydogman]
    #9827225 - 02/19/09 03:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You could also be on to something there, with the reproduction mechanism approach.  But, then again, do you think cows purposely eat specific mushrooms because they trip?  Especially when you consider that psilocibin's effects are in relation to body mass (or, at least that's what I've read).  So, when you consider a cow being 2, 3 times bigger than an average person...  it's probably got little to any effect on it.

Plus, doesn't manure house other species, non-hallucinogenic too?

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Invisiblechef Jay
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: bait_]
    #9827279 - 02/19/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think they produce psilocybin not as a defense mechanism but as a way to reproduce and spread their spores through the human species so that we hunt., pick, cultivate, and eat these kinds of mushrooms for Millennium .  We dry them out, package, and ship these mushrooms around the world and they are dropping spores all the way,  Now that we have the internet and spore companies the spores come in the mail. that is the evolution.  The mushrooms that produce psilocybin have become desirable by humans.  They were carried with them were ever they when, notice how every country and area of the world that have people have psychedelic mushrooms.  Every civilization has used hallucinogens at one point in their history as a religious sacrament


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: shaggydogman]
    #9827344 - 02/19/09 04:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This is more like it, I see it as a means of spore dispersal rather than a defense mechanism, the most potently active psilocybin containing mushrooms are spread around the world by humans, not only by consuming them, but by collecting and transporting them purposefully or accidentally, if it were a defense mechanism people would not seek out the affects!
I see it as a "selective defence mechanism";)
inski.


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Invisibleshaggydogman
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9827389 - 02/19/09 04:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

:smile:

I agree it's a simplistic example.
There are certainly other spores in there.
I like apples, strawberry's and shrooms and I know it's the shrooms that make me feel good...

Cows are just one possible example of a species that may interact. Not sure how the idea would work with wood lovers either, it also takes no account of wind distribution of spores so there are plenty of holes in the idea. Possibly just one of many factors....one of the shrooms many reproduction tricks.

I do think the survival of psilocybes is related to the effects they have on animals when eaten and the animal subsequently consciously seeking them out. We are definalty not the only species that like getting out of it.

As far as cow not feeling the effects according to body mass, well I have no idea how much it takes for a cow to have what it perceives as a pleasant experience!! Tollerance levels vary within the human species so I can only pressume they vary across species as well as within. It could be linked into the amount of serotonin receptor sites in a cows brain etc etc....

I just love the idea of the interaction and the animals, humans included, consciously seeking them out.

Cows like tripping too!!! :smile:


--------------------
Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy
Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.

Edited by shaggydogman (02/19/09 04:13 PM)

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Offlinekiyote
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: shaggydogman]
    #9827594 - 02/19/09 04:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Every civilization has used hallucinogens at one point in their history as a religious sacrament




I'm not saying this is definite, but in the book Shroom:  A Cultural History of the Magic Mushroom, Andy Letcher debunks the myth that there was extensive hallucinogenic use in the pre-historic world.  With the exception of some peoples in Syberia using Fly Agaric and from Mexico using their mushrooms, cubes amongst others(;-)), there is little proof of hallucinogenic use. 

In fact, those people who tried magic mushrooms accidentally usually thought themselves poisoned and thought that they were going to die.  They usually attributed their recovery to an act of god and never tried it again.  It wasn't until well in the 1900s that people started actively trying magic mushrooms for psylocybin's hallucinogenic properties. 

So, the fact that psylocybin is structurally similar to the serotonin transmitter is probably a coincidence.  Which may seem weird until you think about the sheer number of plants and animals out there.  Some of them HAVE to have SOME chemical inside of them that has SOME effect on humans.  It's shear numbers.

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: kiyote]
    #9827767 - 02/19/09 04:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Andy Letcher debunks the myth that there was extensive hallucinogenic use in the pre-historic world.




Well, I guess that settles it then. :rolleyes:

A quick look at some of the cave drawings from thousands of years ago, indicates clearly they were tripping, as does aztek art.  People have been using opiates and alcohol for thousands of years without feeling like they got poisoned, so it's unreasonable to think they'd believe any different about mushrooms.

However, nobody knows why some mushrooms produce psilocybin.  Evolution is a very slow process, so it seems that psilocybin would pre-date humans, thus Paul Stamets theory that they occur near people in order to be disbursed doesn't really hold water.  The inverse makes more sense.  They are probably near people because people have found and disbursed them.
RR


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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9827817 - 02/19/09 05:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

As people have said. There's no clear answer, but I imagine it's a defensive trait of sorts. Even in the wild most animals won't touch the stuff unless they are desperately hungry. My dog hates the smell of mushrooms. I was worried that he'd eat one if I dried them on the floor. So I put one in his face to see what he'd do and he turned his away and totally looked like he hated. He's never once even tried to eat one yet. Still some dogs will eat it, but then again some dogs will eat anything. If something is toxic or mildly toxic a lot of wild animals will just naturally stay away. Having such a mechanism just insures that the spores will be displaced sometime in the future.


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"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!

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Invisibleshaggydogman
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: kiyote]
    #9827881 - 02/19/09 05:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure I can agree with Mr Letcher.
I have added it to my book list as a haven't read it yet, only the overview and reviews, so I may be speaking out of turn. Thanks for the link... :smile:

There are so many traditions that still exist within tribal/indigenous cultures untouched by outside civilisations that my gut feeling on this is the use of hallucinogens by humans must go back a lot further. The history of Peyote and the archeological dicovery of buttons dating back to 3000bc suggests the use of hallucinogens by humans 5500 years ago ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote#History ). I can't believe that as a species we suddenly found a liking for something that has existed for so long so recently.

I agree on the sheer numbers though and I believe that the presence and effects of psilocybin on animals (humans included) in the shrooms has assisted in it's evoluton and survival.

Life on earth just seems so joined up.
Is there anythig that survives on this planet without the help of something else?


--------------------
Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy
Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.

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Offlinekiyote
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: shaggydogman]
    #9829486 - 02/19/09 08:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Well, I guess that settles it then. :rolleyes:

A quick look at some of the cave drawings from thousands of years ago, indicates clearly they were tripping, as does aztek art.  People have been using opiates and alcohol for thousands of years without feeling like they got poisoned, so it's unreasonable to think they'd believe any different about mushrooms.




I did say it wasn't definite, didn't I?  :wink:

Seriously, though, this is the view point that I take, but I realize perfectly that I may be wrong.  I just see it as, if you look at alcohol or even cocaine usage in South America, you see a clear trail of usage clear back to when it was first cultivated thousands of years ago.  With mushrooms, it's not as clear cut.  You have cave paintings of things like the mushroom man, but this could easily be interpreted as something else.  Maybe arrows, which were also very important to primitive tribes? 

But just because something is a recent development, doesn't make it any less significant.  It's common to think that because something is old, it's easier to be venerated, but if psylocybin's effect on humans is a coincidence, it doesn't mean that we can't take advantage of it's effects to our benefit.  I think that there are a number of people on this board who can attest to mushroom's benefit.  If it is the case that people didn't use them thousands of years ago weaken the insights that it gives us today?

Just my 2 cents!  :grin:

Edited by kiyote (02/20/09 05:16 AM)

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OfflineJii
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psily]
    #9831300 - 02/20/09 01:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This is an excellent question. Like most of you, I have been thinking about this quite a lot
after my first experience with psilocybin. My thoughts on this matter are heavily influenced
by people like Terrence McKenna, Sasha Shulgin, Paul Stamets and others.

I hope that the following makes some sense to you guys, I am not too experienced in
writing my thoughts. Especially when I do it in English...

Could it be that psilocybin has a different effects on a brain depending how evolved
the brain is? In the beginning it might have helped simply by creating more complex
connections between braincells, so that more complex and sophisticated structures
could evolve. Later psilocybin could have triggered the feel good chemicals
to be released in brains. And finally with humans (the most evolved brains so far),
psilocybin opens us a gateway to understanding our place in the universe.

So psilocybin production of the mushroom helps it to be favored by different animals
for different reasons. Animals consume mushrooms, spores spread more widely. Mushroom survives.

But, to me it seems that the psilocybin mushrooms must have another mission on earth than
just to survive. More interesting question is what is the purpose of fungi in general?

Different types of fungi live in symbiotic relationship with it's surroundings. Unlike
animals/plant they are not trying to win the battle of evolution, but rather trying to preserve
the complexity of ecosystem. Thus help the life on a planet to survive and evolve.

The earth and our culture are in great crisis at the moment. I think that it is not
coincidence that more people have access to psilocybin experiences that ever before.
It cannot be a coincidence that psilocybin mushrooms are the easiest to cultivate.
Fungi is trying to balance the ecosystem by influencing thoughts of great number
of people around the world? Humans are the first species that have capability
to destroy the whole planet. Is psilocybin a universes way to keep that from
happening?

To wrap things up. Purpose of fungi is to preserve life? Purpose of psilocybin
is to keep more evolved species in connection with nature and keep us from
blowing the planet to pieces, so that we can evolve to some higher intelligence?

-J-


--------------------
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I highly recommend www.genesisgeneration.us and Freedomainradio.

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Offlinefltdriver82
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Jii]
    #9831400 - 02/20/09 02:06 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Prehistoric Psychedelic Mushrooms
The oldest representations of hallucinogenic mushrooms in the world are in The Sahara Desert. They were produced 7000-9000 years ago. The idea that the use of hallucinogens should be a source of inspiration for some forms of prehistoric rock art is not a new one. After a brief examination of instances of such art, this article intends to focus its attention on a group of rock paintings in the Sahara Desert, the works of pre-neolithic Early Gatherers, in which mushrooms effigies are represented repeatedly. The polychromic scenes of harvest, adoration and the offering of mushrooms, and large masked gods covered with mushrooms, not to mention other significant details, lead us to suppose we are dealing with an ancient hallucinogenic mushroom cult. What is remarkable about these ethnomycological works, produced 7,000 - 9,000 years ago, is that they could indeed reflect the most ancient human culture as yet documented in which the ritual use of hallucinogenic mushrooms is explicitly represented. As the Fathers of modern ethno-mycology (and in particular R. Gordon Wasson) imagined, this Saharian testimony shows that the use of hallucinogens goes back to the Paleolithic Period and that their use always takes place within contexts and rituals of a mysfico-religious nature.

Rock paintings
Rock paintings and incisions of the prehistoric periods are to be found all over the world, and serve as a testimony to the preliterate history of human cultures. Rock art, the first permanent form of visual communication known to man, the same art which led to the invention of writing, goes back almost to the origins of mankind. In fact, in Tanzania, as in Australia, there are rock paintings which it would appear go back 40,000 years and more (Anati, 1989). Since most of the works of rock art were, or were related to, initiation rites, or were part of religious practice and its context, the idea that these works should be associated with the use of hallucinogenic vegetals (as has already been put forward for some specific cases on the basis of ethnographic and ethnobotanical data) comes as no surprise. This use, where it arises, is historically associated with controlled rituals involving social groups of varying dimensions. It is perhaps not a chance occurrence that the areas where examples of rock art are to be found - areas in which it is most often asserted that the use of hallucinogens might have taken place, on the basis of the scenes represented or on the basis of the consideration that this practice might have served as a source of inspiration - are also the areas where the most famous examples are to be found in terms of imagination, mythological significance and polychromy. In California, the rock art of the regions inhabited by the Chumash and Yokut, a polychromic manner of painting - particularly evident during the stylistic phase known as the Santa Barbara Painted Style' has been associated with the toloache cult centered around Jimsonweed (a hallucinogenic plant of the Datura genus) known to have been used by a number of Californian and Mexican Indian tribes (Compbell, 1965:63-64; Wellmann, 1978 and 1981). Apparently, the first examples of Chumash rock art date back to 5,000 years ago (Hyder & Oliver, 1983). The impressive Pecos River paintings in Texas have also been associated with the mescal' cult (Sophora secundiflora, hallucinogenic beans of which were used during rites of initiation on the part of the Indian tribes of the region) (Howard, 1957). Furst (1986) affirms that the mescal cult goes back 10,000 years, which is to say back to the Paleo-Indian Hunters Period at the end of the Pleistocene period. Archeological excavations carried out in the areas where paintings are to be found reveal mescal seeds which go back to 8,000 B.C, when Carbon-14 dated. Peyote (Lophophora Williamsii) has also been found during some of these excavations (Campbell, 1958) An interesting and quite explicit use of cohoba, a hallucinogenic snuff taken from the Anadenanthera peregrina tree has been documented among the peoples of the Borbon Caves art in the Dominican Republic (Pagan Perdomo, 1978). This art is probably an example of the Late Antillian Culture of the Tainos and goes back to a period shortly before the arrival of the Spaniards. In this painting, the subject of inhalation of cohoba - by means of cane pipes - is repeatedly represented (Franch, 1982).

Man And Mushrooms
Further evidence in support of the idea that the relationship between Man and hallucinogens - in this case mushrooms - is indeed an ancient one comes from the ancient populations of the Sahara desert who inhabited this vast area when it was still covered with an extensive layer of vegetation (Samorini, 1989). The archeological findings consist in prehistoric paintings which the author personally had the opportunity to observe during two visits to Tassilli in Algeria. This could be the most ancient ethno-mycological finding up to the present day, which goes back to the so-called Round Heads Period (i.e. 9,000 - 7,000 years ago). The center of this style is Tassili, but examples are also to be found at Tadrart Acacus {Libya), Ennedi (Chad) and, to a lesser extent, at Jebel Uweinat (Egypt) (Muzzolini, 1986:173-175). Images of enormous mythological beings of human or animal form, side by side with a host of small horned and feathered beings in dancing stance cover the rock shelters of which there are very many on the high plateau of the Sahara which in some areas are so interconnected as to form true citadels with streets, squares and terraces. One of the most important scenes is to be found in the Tin-Tazarift rock art site, at Tassili, in which we find a series of masked figures in line and hieratically dressed or dressed as dancers surrounded by long and lively festoons of geometrical designs of different kinds. Each dancer holds a mushroom-like object in the right hand and, even more surprising, two parallel lines come out of this object to reach the central part of the head of the dancer, the area of the roots of the two horns. This double line could signify an indirect association or non-material fluid passing from the object held in the right hand and the mind. This interpretation would coincide with the mushroom interpretation if we bear in mind the universal mental value induced by hallucinogenic mushrooms and vegetals, which is often of a mystical and spiritual nature (Dobkin de Rios, 1984:194). It would seem that these lines - in themselves an ideogram which represents something non-material in ancient art - represent the effect that the mushroom has on the human mind.

Mushrooms And Dung
In a shelter in Tin Abouteka, in Tassili, there is a picture appearing at least twice which associates mushrooms and fish, a unique association of symbols among some cultures. Two mushrooms are depicted opposite each other, in a perpendicular position with regard to the fish motif and near the tail. Not far from here, above, we find other fish which are similar to the aforementioned but without the side-mushrooms. In the same Tin Abouteka scene, yet another remarkable image could be explained in the light of ethno-mycological enquiry. In the middle we find an anthropomorphous figure traced only by an outline. The image is not complete and the body is bending; it probably also has a bow behind this figure, we find two mushrooms which seem to be positioned as though they were coming out from behind the beings. If the mushrooms in question are those which grow in dung, the association between these mushrooms and the rear of the figure may not be purely casual. It is known that many psychotropic mushrooms (above all, Psilocybe and Panaeolus genera) live in dung of certain quadrupeds and in particular cows and horses. This specific ecological phenomenon cannot but have been taken into account with regard to the sacramental use of psychotropic mushrooms, leading to the creation of mystical religious relations between the mushroom and the animal which produces its natural habitat. The dung left by herds of quadrupeds were important clues for prehistoric hunters on the lookout for game, and the deepening of such schatological knowledge probably goes back to the Paleolithic period (the long period of the hunter of large game). Thus we have a further argument in favor of the version of events that would have it that there have been mythical associations, with religious interpretations, on different occasions, between the (sacred) animal and the hallucinogenic mushroom. The sacred deer in the Mesoamerican cultures and the cow in Indian Hindu culture (the dung of which provides a habitat for Psilocybe cubensis, a powerful hallucinogen still used today) could be interpreted in this zooschatological manner (Wasson, 1986:44; Furst, 1974; Samorini, 1988). In a painting at Jabbaren - one of the most richly endowed Tassili sites - there are at least 5 people portrayed in a row kneeling with their arms held up before them in front of three figures two of which are clearly anthropomorphous. It could be a scene of adoration in which the three figures would represent divinities or mythological figures. The two anthropomorphous figures have large horns while the upper portion of the third figure, behind them, is shaped like a large mushroom. If the scene is indeed a scene of adoration, it is an important testimonial as to Round Heads mystico-religious beliefs. This scene would thus be the representation of a Holy Trinity illustrated by a precise iconography. It is worth bearing in mind the fact that the upper part of one of the three figures in the adoration scene is mushroom-shaped. It could be related to the iconographic figure at Aouonrhat and Motaiem-Amazar described above. But the more or less anthropomorphous figures with mushroom.shaped heads are to be found repeatedly in Round Head art, some with hat-heads of unboned or papillate form which on two occasions are of a bluish color while others carry a leaf or a small branch. The occurrence of various data suggests the presence of a very ancient hallucinogenic mushroom cult with a complex differentiation between botanical species and related mythological representations. Indeed it would be remarkable to find out that, as part of the culture of the late Stone Age which 7,000 to 9,000 years ago produced Round Heads rock art, we were in the presence of the oldest human culture yet discovered in which explicit representations of the ritual use of psychotropic mushrooms are to be found. Therefore, as the founders of modern ethno-mycology had already put forward - and this is especially true of Wasson (1986) - this Saharian testimony would demonstrate that the use of hallucinogens originates in the Paleolithic period and is invariably include within mystico-religious contexts and rituals.

^cut and paste
From History of magic mushrooms
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IMO Psilocybin is in mushrooms b/c since they taste soo bad they needed a "gimmick" to get people/animals to eat them. Shit them out. Thus spreading their spores to regions where the wind wouldn't possibly take them. I think my theory is also supported by the nausea side effect as well. Man is walking, sees mushrooms, eats mushroom, keeps walking, man gets sick, throws mushroom up (along with rest of stomach contents). Now spores are in a new place with plenty of "food" for the myc to digest and grow to be new shrooms. Man remembers mushroom made him feel good. Comes back. Eats less mushrooms, doesn't throw up, trips balls. Next day man shits, now spores (if they survived, also man could be animal with less efficient digestive track) are in new place with "food" for the myc to consume. Circle of life, bitches...


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InvisibleJef
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Jii]
    #9831467 - 02/20/09 02:45 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I was reading that Psilocybin had an LD50 of something like 3.5 lbs to kill half the people.  I was somewhat surprised to find however that Rabbits were killed by a much smaller by-weight dose.  I have no suggestion why this might be.

The more ways an adaptation benefits  a species the more likely that it will be successfully passed on. I believe the answer is not "this or that" but rather "this AND that"

Fly Agarics are called "Fly" because in olden times people would put a mushroom cap in a bowl of milk the flies would eat from the mushroom cap fall into the milk and die. (The red skin has most of the Muscarine in it.  On a side note, Muscarine is named for Musca the genus to which the house fly belongs.)

It was long believed that the flies were killed by the Amanita, but it turns out that if the flies don't fall into a liquid, they lie immobile all stoned for a while, get up and fly off.  These mushrooms cannot grow except underneath certain trees, and perhaps the flies are of types that frequent those trees, or perhaps are just common.  While lying stoned, they would certainly get spores on them to carry elsewhere.

On finding Amanita muscaria, I have often noted maggots and their trails proceeding up the stem from the ground.  Perhaps the fly also lays its eggs at the base of the mushroom, as it is a quality fod source.  The maggots eventually emerge from the mushroom gills, presumably as flies, and perhaps more spores are spread this way.

Maybe also reindeer, who are famous for loving this mushroom, spread the spores which might pass intact through their digestive tract.

I agree with shaggydog man that cows may eat the spores either from old cow pies or more accidentally with grass and perhaps the spores even germinate before they're crapped out, giving them "the edge" over competitors.

I feel that the idea that man has been so important to the mushrooms or that the mushrooms were made for man is kind of similar to the idea that Man is God's only  chosen species and that Earth is the only chosen planet. 

It seems to me that, if we think this way, that we give our species more credit and importance than it deserves.


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Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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