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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psilyguy]
    #9823128 - 02/18/09 10:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilyguy said:
:flame: evolution is just the successful breeding habits of living things with random mutations!!! :flame: :flame:

maybe...




Take another biology class, bud.  Evolution and mutation are two different things.

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823136 - 02/18/09 10:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

psilyguy said:
:flame: evolution is just the successful breeding habits of living things with random mutations!!! :flame: :flame:

maybe...




Take another biology class, bud.  Evolution and mutation are two different things.




LoL  :thumbup:

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Invisible5HR00M5N4K3
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823145 - 02/18/09 10:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
I'd say the evolution idea is probably key...

It probably started to develop a dangerous, harmful toxin over the course of it's evolution.  Just like the Destroying Angel or Death Cap.

However, I think it was never necessary enough in it's survival to continue it's evolution into a serious toxin, thus has basically stuck to bein a hallucinogenic substance.

For example, take humans evolving from apes....  You have us humans, like your Death Caps or Destroying Angel (i.e. Fully Evolved), you have your basic, generic monkeys (i.e. your edible, gourmet, medicinal mushrooms), but somewhere in the middle, you have your chimps and other "above average" apes (i.e., your cubensis, etc.).

Basically, I'm suggesting that it could be an "aborted" evolution, or one that's currently taking place and being developed.



(Okay, now you can flame me for my stupid ideas...)




hey, flaming you would suck.  but flaming your idea sounds sort of fun.  its as easy as this:

you make a very preposterous assumption in asserting that 'more poisonous' is somehow analogous to 'more evolved'.  apes are more stronger and more hairier than we (mostly speaking), but that isn't indicative of 'greater' evolution.

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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823165 - 02/18/09 10:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

psilyguy said:
:flame: evolution is just the successful breeding habits of living things with random mutations!!! :flame: :flame:

maybe...




Take another biology class, bud.  Evolution and mutation are two different things.




ok in all seriousness this is what my basic understanding is. mutation of course is not the same as evolution, i never said it was. but without mutation evolution wouldn't occur. something has a mutation, its random, not for any purpose, and if the thing with that mutation is successful in breeding it has a chance of spreading that mutation. some mutations may be advantageous or disadvantageous for breeding, but no matter what that doesn't matter if it still gets successfully passed along. but if you seriously think that some things are more "fully evolved" than others than YOU need to take another biology class.

edit: mutation is responsible for variation. without variation nothing would be different. things wouldn't change(evolve) over time. duh.

Edited by psilyguy (02/18/09 10:32 PM)

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9823168 - 02/18/09 10:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
a bunch of stupid, pointless and retarded shit no one will remember or give two shits about...





Wow you think pretty highly of yourself, huh?  Smartin off about someone jerkin off to anime, when you're so wrapped up in your computer-game lingo that was jacked from the 90's wannabe-hacker scene that you bring it in here to put it in your username, thinkin you're something clever because because you can call yourself "Shroom Snake" without using any S's. 

Get over yourself, you're no better than the "fags" you're bitchin about.

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823173 - 02/18/09 10:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
a bunch of stupid, pointless and retarded shit no one will remember or give two shits about...





Wow you think pretty highly of yourself, huh?  Smartin off about someone jerkin off to anime, when you're so wrapped up in your computer-game lingo that was jacked from the 90's wannabe-hacker scene that you bring it in here to put it in your username, thinkin you're something clever because because you can call yourself "Shroom Snake" without using any S's. 

Get over yourself, you're no better than the "fags" you're bitchin about.




LoL

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InvisibleJitsu
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9823187 - 02/18/09 10:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Man hallucinogest has done a lot of noob owning the past days. It's so mean but so funny haha


--------------------
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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Jitsu]
    #9823206 - 02/18/09 10:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jitsu said:
Man hallucinogest has done a lot of noob owning the past days. It's so mean but so funny haha




LoL he is like tahoe the noob slayer lol

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9823214 - 02/18/09 10:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
hey, flaming you would suck.  but flaming your idea sounds sort of fun.  its as easy as this:

you make a very preposterous assumption in asserting that 'more poisonous' is somehow analogous to 'more evolved'.  apes are more stronger and more hairier than we (mostly speaking), but that isn't indicative of 'greater' evolution.




Okay, let me explain my preposterous assumption...  First, it's not an assertion, it's a hypothesis.  Check meaning, then hit me back.

Second of all, I'm "asserting" causation between evolution and the (hypothesized) increase in potency of a defense mechanism.

Third, I'm not going to argue about apes being "more hairier," because using that phrase alone does more damage to your argument than anything I could hope to achieve. 

Last off, if you're going to *seriously* try and debate or argue, come up with an argument, not a pointless statement that's basically contradictory in itself.

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823228 - 02/18/09 10:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

LoL, well gents I am getting off I got class in 7 hours, Soo I gota go but I will be checking this thread in the morning LoL

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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Damion5050]
    #9823257 - 02/18/09 10:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Hallucinogenist, please read what i said clarifying what i think about evolution. i don't know why you said i need to take another biology class, but if you were serious, let me know whats up. cause i am getting a college education which i am paying for without financial aid and if they are teaching me wrong about these kinda things then i wanna get pissed at schools!  :megacrankey:

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psilyguy]
    #9823272 - 02/18/09 10:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilyguy said:
ok in all seriousness this is what my basic understanding is. mutation of course is not the same as evolution, i never said it was. but without mutation evolution wouldn't occur. something has a mutation, its random, not for any purpose, and if the thing with that mutation is successful in breeding it has a chance of spreading that mutation. some mutations may be advantageous or disadvantageous for breeding, but no matter what that doesn't matter if it still gets successfully passed along. but if you seriously think that some things are more "fully evolved" than others than YOU need to take another biology class.

edit: mutation is responsible for variation. without variation nothing would be different. things wouldn't change(evolve) over time. duh.




No, you're slightly confused...  Evolution occurs because of adaptation, not mutation.  There's a famous example used to support evolution involving a crab (I forget the specific type).  It's basic theory is that to start, both of the crab's claws were the same size, identical.  But, more often than not, the crab (and it's descendants) tended to favor using one of the claws.  In turn, it became bigger, bulkier, more controlled over the crabs life.  This trait is passed on to the next generation.  They, being influenced by genetics have a larger (not noticeably) claw, and tend to favor it.  This process continues for centuries.  Eventually, you're left with the present descendants of those crabs, whose primary claw is exponentially larger, and who's secondary claw has shrunk proportionately from lack of use.

That's evolution.  It's through trait and adaptation.


Mutation would be if two crabs fucked and the baby crab came out with some freakishly large claw for no reason whatsoever.
_____________

That is the difference between mutation and evolution.

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psilyguy]
    #9823279 - 02/18/09 10:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilyguy said:
Hey Hallucinogenist, please read what i said clarifying what i think about evolution. i don't know why you said i need to take another biology class, but if you were serious, let me know whats up. cause i am getting a college education which i am paying for without financial aid and if they are teaching me wrong about these kinda things then i wanna get pissed at schools!  :megacrankey:




College doesn't necessarily mean you're learning about evolution.

I'm in college and have no biology class in sight.

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Offlineexzile
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823299 - 02/18/09 10:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i just had to put this out guys......... syeinsief is banned :hi:


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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823300 - 02/18/09 10:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and also...  I'm not saying the mushroom is more "fully evolved," just the defense mechanism.


But, as far as arguing evolution with me, go read some more about Darwinism, check some texts and hit me back.

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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823354 - 02/18/09 10:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

psilyguy said:
Hey Hallucinogenist, please read what i said clarifying what i think about evolution. i don't know why you said i need to take another biology class, but if you were serious, let me know whats up. cause i am getting a college education which i am paying for without financial aid and if they are teaching me wrong about these kinda things then i wanna get pissed at schools!  :megacrankey:




College doesn't necessarily mean you're learning about evolution.

I'm in college and have no biology class in sight.




no shit, lol i took a class that was entirely dedicated to evolution for 8 out of the 12 weeks, thats why i would get pissed.
i never heard about the crab thing, but i think adaptation occurs because of mutation. for example, with darwins finches on i cant remember what island (or many specifics for that matter but you should know what im talking about). many finches of the same species with different sized beaks. something changed their environment pretty radically and the birds with the larger beaks reproduced more successfully because of the advantages with the food source. over a couple years almost all the birds had the larger beaks. this adaptation came from the advantages of a specific variation which was a result of mutation (not like x-men, but small genetic 'mistakes' with single alleles in the process of translating dna).

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Invisible5HR00M5N4K3
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823359 - 02/18/09 10:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
a bunch of stupid, pointless and retarded shit no one will remember or give two shits about...





Wow you think pretty highly of yourself, huh?  Smartin off about someone jerkin off to anime, when you're so wrapped up in your computer-game lingo that was jacked from the 90's wannabe-hacker scene that you bring it in here to put it in your username, thinkin you're something clever because because you can call yourself "Shroom Snake" without using any S's. 

Get over yourself, you're no better than the "fags" you're bitchin about.




woah, is this because i dismantled your 'poison is more evolved than hallucinogen' hypothesis?

firstly--my response wasn't about me.  it was addressing ideas and actions that i felt were pertinent to the board.  first and foremost-anybody who likes anime or manga cannot be trusted, and must be banned.  secondly, calling people 'fags' and other shit 'gay' on a mycology board is more indicative of non-mycological issues than anything else (that is to say, it shows one's personal dis/inclinations towards queers, but still fails to say anything about mushrooms, unless of course they are gay mushrooms.)  but, even if i do think highly of myself, why would that be a problem?  i'm sure it's no higher than anyone else in this thread regards their own self.

secondly--dump the assumptions.  i picked my username through the lens of reflexivity, that is, because it is funny to me in an ironically detached sort of way.  you may not share the chuckle, but that doesn't make it appropriate to somehow wrangle my name into a vitriolic 'dis' for someone who was attempting (albeit quite unsuccesfully) to help make the message board more egalitarian.  i don't play computer/video games.  never have.  i always figured they were for people who fetishize anime. :wink:

but finally, i never meant to infer that i am somehow 'better' than any 'fags' (btw, i only used that word to describe a homosexual male, not someone over whom i wish to be elevated).  i am no different than people who were saying 'ignore him' or 'can't we all just get along' or whatever, i was just trying to get us back on topic, and was saying it in my own way (a way that may not appeal to you, but was appreciated by others).

this place isn't a pissing contest.  you might treat it as such (with sardonic threads that are meant solely to denigrate those who know less about cultivation than you), but i don't.  please take my statements for what they say.  if you have an aversion to my style or whatever, just ignore it, or shit, debate it if you like.  we can talk modes and aesthetics if it suits you.  but don't make up a bunch of shit that isn't so much as inferred by anything i've said or done, it just makes you look rabid and confused.

shit, i need a cigarette after that blurt. :wink:

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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: exzile]
    #9823362 - 02/18/09 10:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

exzile said:
i just had to put this out guys......... syeinsief is banned :hi:


:congrats:

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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9823370 - 02/18/09 10:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hallucinogenist said:
Oh, and also...  I'm not saying the mushroom is more "fully evolved," just the defense mechanism.


But, as far as arguing evolution with me, go read some more about Darwinism, check some texts and hit me back.



you said humans are more "fully evolved" than apes. at first i thought i could learn something from you, but it sounds like you haven't read much about darwinism yourself. the way you described the crab thing sounds like pre-darwin scientists that believed in "willful" adaptation.

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OfflineHallucinogenist
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Re: Purpose of psilocybin for the shroom? [Re: psilyguy]
    #9823410 - 02/18/09 11:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilyguy said:
but i think adaptation occurs because of mutation. for example, with darwins finches on i cant remember what island (or many specifics for that matter but you should know what im talking about). many finches of the same species with different sized beaks. something changed their environment pretty radically and the birds with the larger beaks reproduced more successfully because of the advantages with the food source. over a couple years almost all the birds had the larger beaks. this adaptation came from the advantages of a specific variation which was a result of mutation (not like x-men, but small genetic 'mistakes' with single alleles in the process of translating dna).




Yes, I'm also familiar about the finches (didn't remember it until you brought it up, but we learned both at the same time). 

I believe you're wrong about adaptation.  Adaptation doesn't occur through mutation.  Adaptation is the ability to "evolve" or "adapt" to fit ones environment.  Mutation is not related.

This is the definition of genetic mutation:
In biology, mutations are changes to the nucleotide sequence of the genetic material of an organism. Mutations can be caused by copying errors in the genetic material during cell division, by exposure to ultraviolet or ionizing radiation, chemical mutagens, or viruses, or can occur deliberately ...


The biggest difference between the two is that mutation is an "error" or "mistake" in genetic coding.  Adaptation is a positive and intentional, controlled alteration.  I'll retract my earlier statement.  Mutation *can* be a -CAUSING FACTOR- in evolution.  But the adaptations that cause evolution are typically beneficial, and are AN EFFECT from changing to fit the environment.  Mutation is a CAUSE of adaptation to fit an environment.

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