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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots!
    #9811032 - 02/16/09 10:13 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Why will bailout money NOT stimulate the economy?

It's all coming out of thin air. It's only going to make our dollar weaker, and then it will all become a tax on the middle class. It will be called inflation... again...

If these bailouts piss you off then you should be constantly pissed-off. It sounds like half a billion is a Lot, right? However, The Fed injects over half a billion each week! If Americans truly knew how this corrupt system worked then the anger with the system would be a constant. You won't hear about it because YOU'RE BEING CHEATED each time they do it.

The absolute reason for all of this loss of quality of life, outsourcing, Chinese JUNK imports, absolutelly WORTHLESS "STIMULUS PLAN", is because we're on FIAT currency systems that politicians control. Not The People. When politicians need money, they don't have to raise taxes anymore, they don't even have to ASK anymore! They simply have it printed. So none of us realize until it's too late (Which will be soon). All of this BULLSHIT IS BECAUSE OF FIAT CURRENCY! Wake the fuck up and get us BACK ON THE FUCKING GOLD STANDARD ALREADY!! It's the ONLY move that can help us "save face".

Just look what happened once the gold standard was REMOVED. The numbers speak for themselves.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

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EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9812173 - 02/17/09 01:33 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

:repost:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9812567 - 02/17/09 04:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

> It will be called inflation...

Which prevents a deflationary spiral keeping the entire system from failing.  Kind of like amputating a limb to keep from dying; it may be bad, but the alternative is worse.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Seuss]
    #9813173 - 02/17/09 08:57 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but eventually the inflation will cause the collapse.

I don't understand why people put up with this bullshit.


Zouden: I had no idea this was posted already. :shrug:

Where is the other post?


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Seuss]
    #9813920 - 02/17/09 12:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Inflation transfers wealth from those who produce to those who create currency.  I urge you to examine the wonderful workings of inflation in Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic.

The proper way to get out of a situation of being over-leveraged is to decrease spending and build capital.  This 'stimulus' is more massive spending and from debt in order to get us out of a situation created by massive spending from debt.  So why would more of the same, be the antidote for what has gotten us into this mess?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9813934 - 02/17/09 12:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Exact-a-mundo.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9814113 - 02/17/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

And like I said. They think we're all complete idiots! Seriously how much more will we tolerate?


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9814265 - 02/17/09 01:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Lots and lots. Just look at how much you've tolerated already. (if you can)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9814731 - 02/17/09 02:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:
Yeah but eventually the inflation will cause the collapse.

I don't understand why people put up with this bullshit.


Zouden: I had no idea this was posted already. :shrug:

Where is the other post?




More like where isn't the other post? I just did a search and found that on average there's eight threads about the federal reserve every month in this forum. I'm sure it must be the #1 topic of discussion, along with 'socialism', and beating out 'NWO' and '9/11' threads by a long way.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9814945 - 02/17/09 03:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:
Yeah but eventually the inflation will cause the collapse.

I don't understand why people put up with this bullshit.


Zouden: I had no idea this was posted already. :shrug:

Where is the other post?




More like where isn't the other post? I just did a search and found that on average there's eight threads about the federal reserve every month in this forum. I'm sure it must be the #1 topic of discussion, .





it should be!

many Americans do not support this trillion dollar pork fest.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9814963 - 02/17/09 03:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I was referring to threads about the federal reserve system (fiat currency, fractional reserve banking, money as debt, Amero) rather than threads about the bailouts. There's lots of them too, but they're not even close to being the #1 topic.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9816108 - 02/17/09 06:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but my point is that The Fed caused all of this. Well let me rephrase.
Politicians and The Fed caused it. They just print more when it's needed, instead of asking The People.

Plus the chart I posted shows exactly how bad FIAT really is. The Gold Standard is where it's at, period. They can't get away with anywhere near as much pork barrel spending.

No accountability = Much bullshit


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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OfflineTedwilto
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9816257 - 02/17/09 07:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

think its really feasible to go back on to the gold standard after weve gone this far though? And even then i dont think thats perfect.


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


Edited by Tedwilto (02/17/09 07:21 PM)

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Tedwilto]
    #9816295 - 02/17/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, the chart doesn't lie.
At least they had to ask us (by raising taxes), so we definitely knew when they were trying something fishy.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Invisiblemister
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9816439 - 02/17/09 07:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Not to piss more people off but I just heard that there is "language" that Obama is looking for a second stimulus bill and a TARP 3, along with auto bailout money. So this is the end of Democracy.... with a thunderous applause last November.

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OfflineTedwilto
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mister]
    #9816496 - 02/17/09 07:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

source?


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Tedwilto]
    #9816514 - 02/17/09 08:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Morons...
More debt by trying to fix the debt by creating more debt!?!? :shrug:

wtf man?


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Invisiblemister
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9816586 - 02/17/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Fox News. Hannity to be exact.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mister]
    #9818080 - 02/18/09 01:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

at least get the treasury and congress to print the money like the constitution says.

the federal reserve and the IMF, and other banking groups are fraudulent users.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Shins]
    #9818309 - 02/18/09 02:33 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Doesn't the treasury print money? The mint is part of the treasury, surely?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9818387 - 02/18/09 03:24 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

> Doesn't the treasury print money? The mint is part of the treasury, surely?

The mint does not print money.  The mint only mints coins.  The BEP is responsible for printing money.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Seuss]
    #9818401 - 02/18/09 03:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

>The BEP is responsible for printing money.

Geez I know they're rich, but printing money now?

I would not trust these guys with the nation's currency, but what do I know?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (02/18/09 03:47 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9818403 - 02/18/09 03:44 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

BEP = bureau of engraving and printing

> I would not trust these guys with the nation's currency

:grin:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Seuss]
    #9818406 - 02/18/09 03:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

:grin:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9818608 - 02/18/09 07:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

HeH.

The Black Eyed Peas would sadly do a better job... I'd bet on it.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9819521 - 02/18/09 11:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Ehhhh, you are aware that consumer prices will rise as growth happens right? What, do you think that prices should remain at War of 1812, or WWII status as economical growth, supply and demand increases? The gold standard has very little (if anything) to do with the rise in CPI. It's the rise in GDP that's doing it. Just how it works.

Edited by Hotnuts (02/18/09 12:34 PM)

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9820088 - 02/18/09 01:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

No. That chart is a perfect example of what inflation does. After the removal of The Gold Standard inflation skyrocketed.

Us being off the standard has everything to do with CPI because every dollar issued devalues the rest of them in FIAT systems.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9820307 - 02/18/09 02:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

But wealth also skyrocketed.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9820396 - 02/18/09 02:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:
No. That chart is a perfect example of what inflation does. After the removal of The Gold Standard inflation skyrocketed.





The only thing that chart is, is a perfect example of someone trying to make a silly point by adding the text "Creation of the Federal Reserve" to it. What you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with inflation. It was growth and progression, plain and simple. Here's an example, although not updated. See Personal Consumption Expenditures for inflationary data.


Edited by Hotnuts (02/18/09 02:59 PM)

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9820472 - 02/18/09 03:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The Fed seems to have everything to do with it. Simply because on the standard you couldn't make more money than you had. After its removal money could be printed from nothing.

I think The Fed is mostly responsible for monetary problems, second place goes to greedy politicians and special interests.

Interesting chart though.

You can't say from 1800's 'til the standard was removed that there wasn't growth and progression. That wouldn't make sense. Growth didn't suddenly start happening 4 decades ago.

First time I was aware of the chart was when a friend saw it on Glenn Beck. It struck a nerve with me.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9820548 - 02/18/09 03:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

> You can't say from 1800's 'til the standard was removed that there wasn't growth and progression.

However, you can say that growth of the economy was severely limited because money could not be produced as fast as the economy was capable of growing.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Seuss]
    #9820605 - 02/18/09 03:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but that in itself is redundant... Look at our situation now.

We got too greedy or something.


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9820631 - 02/18/09 03:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Those are different issues. Inflation didn't cause the mess that we're in.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineHotnuts
old hand
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9820763 - 02/18/09 03:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"First time I was aware of the chart was when a friend saw it on Glenn Beck."

Ah, there's the problem. :lol:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: mister]
    #9821125 - 02/18/09 04:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mister said:
Not to piss more people off but I just heard that there is "language" that Obama is looking for a second stimulus bill and a TARP 3, along with auto bailout money. So this is the end of Democracy.... with a thunderous applause last November.




So this is the end of Democracy.

There was a Democracy?:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: zouden]
    #9824258 - 02/19/09 01:35 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Inflation didn't cause the mess,  it's because all of the bonds and loans add up to more money and GDP than there is in existence.  On top of that there is interest applied.  they are trying to inject liquidity into it so that all the bonds and loans can be payed off.  the problem is; it devalues the currency.  while this makes it easier to pay off tho loans in the short term, in the long term it just creates more debt because the government has to borrow the new money to inject it.

If the treasury and congress simply created interest free treasury dollars instead of borrowing with interest reserve notes, and made it legal tender,  they count print up all of the money to pay off the entire national debt. 

The big banks would be out of business in that case.  Abraham Lincoln started to issue treasury dollars, and he was assasinated shortly after.

JFK also was assassinated within weeks after he attempted to create a similar type of money.

just throwing that out there.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Shins]
    #9824506 - 02/19/09 02:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sure, but that's not what's caused the current recession, that's all I'm saying.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Bailouts WILL NOT WORK and NEITHER WILL STIMULUS! They think we're idiots! [Re: Shins]
    #9824623 - 02/19/09 04:09 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If the treasury and congress simply created interest free treasury dollars instead of borrowing with interest reserve notes, and made it legal tender,  they count print up all of the money to pay off the entire national debt.




Would this not cause worse inflation?  I suppose it would be no different than the current system, as the GDP would still be backing the money produced.  The only difference is that tax money would stay in the government rather than go to privately owned banks?  Interesting... going to have to think through this some more.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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