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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #983908 - 10/22/02 06:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi guys - umm the difference between true will and free will. Sclorch -IMHO jimi hendrix was in touch with his true will, picasso and einstein too plus a whole myriad of cultural icons. Obviously there are examples who aren?t i.e. David Hasslehoff (Cant put my finger on what it is about that guy that does my head in!).I think that true creativity comes from being in touch with your true will. I'm not saying these guys were enlightened beings, just that they were more accident prone to temporary connections with their true will. Many geniuses say the ideas just come to them, or the music just happened to me man! Also, i didn?t mention "God" although that?s not a bad word for it if it feels ok to you. I prefer true will, It?s purely aesthetic. All that really matter is you find a way of connecting with "it". Does it really matter what you call it? I think we all know we are describing the same thing as it reflects upon us in a million ways. Another metaphor for true will is that In terms of gaia we are mere cells. Individual cells that make up a planetary body, like the cells in our own bodies. When we connect with true will we are working for the "common good" so we will not pollute, kill, or destroy, because why would we destroy ourselves? If however we follow our free will then gaia is in for a rough ride. I.e. the environmental situation we are now in. Shroomalicious - when i say "common good" i can see that it is not a very good explanation. "Common good" in this sense is not something that is defined by an individulals supposed free will. People like stalin and hitler were imposing their own sick egos on people, and people were at a level where they were susceptible to this kind of manipulation. In terms of gaia though they were like cancer cells, where the cells program has a slight syntax error i.e. a very disturbed and sick ego.
In human terms hitler was a defective chromosome. This defect is then able to replicate itself through nuremburg rallies or however cancer cells spread in the human body. (i don't know how this occurs but i know cancer starts from one cell not running "the correct program" and then passes this defect on to other cells quickly)

For me also, the main thing that shows that the stalins and hitlers of this world are operating from free will as opposed to true will, is their heavy reliance on language. i.e. propaganda, public speaking.

True will IMHO does not communicate through language. It comes when you are being in the now. With no focus on past or present, empty not full of random thoughts.

Then again, perhaps hitler wasn?t defective. It may have just looked defective up close, from a human viewpoint. I?m not supporting the nazis here. I?m just saying that we can not know how true will operates.

At the end of the day, I gibber longtime! and all these words just cloud the view!



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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #983977 - 10/22/02 07:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:smirk: Shroomism, Ive just read your Hi Ho thread! we are definitely seeing slightly different reflections of the same thing!

PEACE
 


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #984030 - 10/22/02 07:27 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

during the 50's and 60's ... american socialogists were trying to figure out why Hitler happened in the first place. i bet some of you know this test but some people got together and set up a test. the test went roughly like this.

there were 3 people people involved. 2 people who were aprt of and one who was really the test subject.

1st person ... the "scientist" running the test, really just a part of the test
2nd person ... the test subject, played the role as the teacher
3rd person ... the "student", same as the "scientist"

the test was set up so the teacher would run the console that had electrodes hooked up to the student. the console had switches that contolled how many volts ran through the electrodes ... it ran from slight shock to death labeled as XXX. the scientist oversaw the teacher and was there for final decision.

now the teachers job was to teach the student a list of words in a particular order. everytime the student screwed up the volts were up'd.

the truth of the matter was they were all in a in the "act" except for the teacher, the console was a fake and it didn't have any shocking capabilities. the student screwed up on purpose so the real test was how far would the teacher go in up'ing the volts. everytime the teacher objected to turning up the the volts the scientist was there to convince him otherwise, people struggled but went with the flow of things anyways. 65% of of the teachers ... the test subjects ... went all the way to XXX, Death!

this is how the holocaust happened. the test subjects were infact very moral people .. they were barbers, cops, preachers, mothers ... your everyday people. just like nazi germany, not everbody was in the act.



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Rafa (x_X)

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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Kemist]
    #985575 - 10/23/02 03:56 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Excellent post Kemist because people often don't realise that. Hitler wasn't a non-human, he was just a dude...he wasn't a myth, he was real. He was a person, and people are all around us and it can happen again. Just because someone is a good speaker, doesn't mean he is moral. Hitler never said "I am evil" or "I want to kill all jews". He would say things like he wanted to "purify the world" and "perfect Germany" and would often spat off speaches about hope and a better world.

Furthermore, I think he wanted the best for the world. In his own (IMO) compeletly messed way he thought he was making the world a better place, I think. Obviously I think he is evil because he believed HE knew what was best for EVERYONE else and he saw an entire race of people as nothing more than a detriment to "real" people.

My point is...everyone (just about) wants a better world, it is what you do to get that world that seperates the Mahatma Ghandis from the Hitlers.

At least that is my opinion.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #985580 - 10/23/02 03:59 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Shroomism, Ive just read your Hi Ho thread! we are definitely seeing slightly different reflections of the same thing!

I am Shroomalicious...you are looking for ShroomISM...check two doors down.  :grin:


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #985583 - 10/23/02 04:00 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I agree that the world is indeed "perfect" because it simply exists.... whats objectively more "perfect" than how things already are?

Once I learned to love whatever comes ("have a good time all the time" kinda thing..), I realized this. Its already perfect and even if we blow up this entire planet, they will be perfect deaths and explosions, with beautiful shroomey-clouds ;-P

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
the only thing that will "improve" the world or "better" it will be a new type of language which more accurately and less candidly expresses thoughts (and that will come, and it will be just as "perfect" as things are now.. we can always find discomfort if we're looking for it)


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (10/23/02 04:01 AM)


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #985618 - 10/23/02 04:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It was late last night! aplogies.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #985671 - 10/23/02 05:10 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Lucky for you, I have a big heart...I suppose I can muster up the required amount of forgiveness.  :wink:


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #985714 - 10/23/02 05:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:grin: Thats just the sort of behaviour we will be needing in the new and perfect world!! 


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 160
Loc: The Orgin
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #985923 - 10/23/02 09:29 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Its already perfect and even if we blow up this entire planet, they will be perfect deaths and explosions, with beautiful shroomey-clouds ;-P

thats what im saying ... what a perfect end to the story of man. hope i have front row tickets!

:cool: 


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: Kemist]
    #989152 - 10/24/02 11:19 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, we cant improve the world as it is already perfect, perfect but not complete. We still have to flow with the moment, which may lead us into places which could be said to be "better" than where we were previously, but obviously all the perfect moments prior to that will have lead us there!

Strumpling - I agree that we need a new form of language, and the psychedelic experience always seems to be forcing us to try and express things beyond our vocabulary - how do you see this new language taking shape?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #989188 - 10/24/02 11:54 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

honestly i think mckenna was right - "visual" language shall arrise - as it is already.

You're looking at visual language right now

:tongue: :grin: :smirk: :confused: :laugh: :mad: :smile: :cool:

We're working on it...


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #989464 - 10/24/02 01:54 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

telepathy


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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: In(di)go]
    #989795 - 10/24/02 04:11 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

telepathy sounds iffy to me

language is thought expressed with words society more or less has agreed to express thiers thoughts.

so if we start using telepathy could we still keep our thoughts to ourselves? if so, people are still able communicate and really mean something else, the delivery is just different.

if every thought can be read well i wouldnt want to be in a big group of people.


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Rafa (x_X)

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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world.. [Re: In(di)go]
    #996172 - 10/27/02 04:13 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ya, I am with you and McKenna on the visual language thing man.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Offlinehyper_dermic
stranger withcandy

Registered: 06/26/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #996452 - 10/27/02 11:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

How to acheive a perfect world.....
its already been going strong for over 15 years....
come to burning man last week of october first week of september black rock desert nevada....
its the closest thing to a perfect world on this planet....

30,000+ people
fully working city
no money allowed
ART!!!
FREEDOM!!!
LOVE!!!
LIFE!!!

granted, there are problems, but this ISINT a perfect world... but burning man is the closest thing to it ive ever expirenced....

www.burningman.com

[hyp]




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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: hyper_dermic]
    #996872 - 10/27/02 02:54 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Perfection is boring,
And leaves nothing to improve upon,
Which is in my opinion, half the fun anyway.
:tongue: 


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Listen, or your tongue will keep you deaf. :wink:
ŦēҜй? - ??ĜįĈ?? ҒűČҝĮńĜ ?đVǻŃčЄмЄńŦ


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #997061 - 10/27/02 04:26 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

you want a perfect world......well look around you, we should be grateful

or another way, many people would have to have a change of heart, people would have to relinquesh there views and dogma, no bias what so ever, with no bias and no preferences tolerance goes up to no end. i guess


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


Edited by CleverName (10/27/02 04:32 PM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: CleverName]
    #997345 - 10/27/02 06:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

you want a perfect world......well look around you, we should be grateful

Just because I want a perfect world with no poverty, death or suffering doesn't mean I am not grateful for what I have and what the world already is.

or another way, many people would have to have a change of heart, people would have to relinquesh there views and dogma, no bias what so ever, with no bias and no preferences tolerance goes up to no end. i guess

I don't think a perfect world would contain people being forced to give up there views. A perfect world would allow people to be individuals...it would not mean that everyone had exactly the same opinions, it would simply mean people knew their opinions were not fact and that a disagreement is absolutely no need to argue. Certain peopl would have to have a change of heart, but in a perfect world it would because they would geniunely see the harm they have done, not because they would be forced.

If I believed a perfect world could only be acheived once everyone thought in sync, I would be adopting the most basic Satanic principal. One that was embraced by some of history's most opressive society, like the Nazi's for one. Not only is it my opinion that it is morally wrong, it is a system of Government that has been a totally failure.

Every individual brings a different beautiful color to the world, that should add to the harmony, not be a reason for malice.

I am very glad you brought out your views so I could clear up that misconception. Thanks a lot. :smile: 


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Thoughts on how to achieve the perfect world... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #997417 - 10/27/02 07:26 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

my post wasnt meant to you directly, and i said WE should be thankful, and that goes for everyone, im not picking on you or anything.
also, i never once said force, but i did say people would have to have a change of heart. im not down with violence, or oppression. you basically agreed with what i said in your second paragraph. like you say, we are all one, when people are able to see themselves in everything and see everything in themselves, then i believe id enjoy that society a whole lot.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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