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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Seuss]
#9790484 - 02/13/09 01:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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500 words? that's two pages. too short - it'd be way too easy to find loopholes & manipulate/bypass the legislation.
I like the whole time-limit on legislation idea, but i feel like it'd have to be analyzed a little more before it was put into practice. i have a headache so i can't put too much thought into it now, but i like the sound of it'
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets
Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Seuss]
#9790483 - 02/13/09 01:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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That'd sure cut some of the pork out of bills.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#9790516 - 02/13/09 01:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Patriot Act was read and reread and passed overwhelmingly both times, with votes from both parties.
The Patriot Act was rammed through Congress and legislators only had 3 days to read the bill along with another Senate appropriations bill. (Fox News). Even old man Ron Paul (cue put downs) admitted that many congressmen didn't read it. Ron Paul article
With a name like "The Patriot Act" who the hell wouldn't vote for it? That's like calling a bill the "Anti Puppy Raping Act." No one wants to be on the wrong side of that term.
Really? How about the Patriot Act of 2005 that almost entirely repeated the original Patriot Act which was set to expire as a result of the "sunset" provisions in the original bill? They had YEARS to examine that fucker. Are there any sunset provisions in this piece of shit? Fucked if I know, because nobody has read it.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets
Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: zappaisgod]
#9791242 - 02/13/09 04:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Patriot Act was read and reread and passed overwhelmingly both times, with votes from both parties.
The Patriot Act was rammed through Congress and legislators only had 3 days to read the bill along with another Senate appropriations bill. (Fox News). Even old man Ron Paul (cue put downs) admitted that many congressmen didn't read it. Ron Paul article
With a name like "The Patriot Act" who the hell wouldn't vote for it? That's like calling a bill the "Anti Puppy Raping Act." No one wants to be on the wrong side of that term.
Really? How about the Patriot Act of 2005 that almost entirely repeated the original Patriot Act which was set to expire as a result of the "sunset" provisions in the original bill? They had YEARS to examine that fucker. Are there any sunset provisions in this piece of shit? Fucked if I know, because nobody has read it.
I mentioned that because it's a general problem in legislation. Lawmakers have gigantic bills inflated with like 200 pages of pork at the last minute and have very limited time to read it and usually don't.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#9791346 - 02/13/09 04:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said: I mentioned that because it's a general problem in legislation. Lawmakers have gigantic bills inflated with like 200 pages of pork at the last minute and have very limited time to read it and usually don't.
That's a bogus excuse for bad legislation. I don't see any need for these lawmakers to read each bill in a short time when they each have staffs. Even if you have a two-hundred page bill, if you have your ten staffers each read and summarize twenty pages, you can have the thing analyzed in a few hours.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#9791352 - 02/13/09 04:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea zappa, police state legislature is easy to keep on the books especially after it's been implemented for the past 4 years. However if 4 years down the road from this stimulus bill people don't still know what's in it then I suppose there is a problem there as well.
I somehow still doubt that the 05 version was read by many before voting as well.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets
Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 3,707
Loc: Zuid-Holland, Nederland
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9791372 - 02/13/09 04:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
That's a bogus excuse for bad legislation.
Yeah I agree. Lazyness is no excuse for shitty laws but it has played a role in the past.
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acid_kiss
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 97
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: memes]
#9797022 - 02/14/09 05:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
meams said: Not happy? Change something - bitching on the internet doesn't yield any progress. I bet none of you have even taken the time to email your representative to tell 'em how dissatisfied you are with their inability to read the whole bill.
For the one or two of you who have: good for you. For the others who haven't, learn from their example.
I've done my part. I'm sure by now my IP address is blocked from the senate and house website and email servers. But I still jam up the phone lines too. My senate reps are absolutely worthless and I swear I'm going to campaign for whoever runs against them. My house rep its pretty sweet, doesn't even vote along with the rest down the party line with the rest of the worthless poloskies. (I'm not republican, they are almost as bad) Wish I could go meet the pope on some Europe vacation instead of DOING MY FUCKING JOB AND RUSHING THE LARGEST SPENDING PACKAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE MODERN WORLD WITHOUT EVEN ALLOWING TIME TO READ LET ALONE ANALISE AND DEBATE IT!
I don't think they listen though, I'm ready to start marching into the capital, who's with me?
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acid_kiss
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 97
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
#9797047 - 02/14/09 06:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
With a name like "The Patriot Act" who the hell wouldn't vote for it? That's like calling a bill the "Anti Puppy Raping Act." No one wants to be on the wrong side of that term.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: acid_kiss]
#9801790 - 02/15/09 10:20 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
acid_kiss said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
With a name like "The Patriot Act" who the hell wouldn't vote for it? That's like calling a bill the "Anti Puppy Raping Act." No one wants to be on the wrong side of that term.
That wasn't me. That was Virus. I put puppies in blenders.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: zappaisgod]
#9802458 - 02/15/09 01:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Blended food aside, the Great One's disciples are now telling people not to expect the spending bill to help them out... it may do something by 2010, but it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better... Gee... thanks.
Quote:
President Barack Obama's aides warned Americans on Sunday not to expect instant miracles from the $787 billion economic spending bill he will sign this week, but said it would help eventually. ... it's going to take time for (change) to show up in the statistics. The president has said it's likely to get worse before it gets better.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Seuss]
#9802487 - 02/15/09 01:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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As much as I am against much of this bill, did you really think there would be instant results?
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Redstorm]
#9802509 - 02/15/09 01:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well fuck man, 2 months of planning for this specific challenge and this is the best he can come up with? Didn't he have a special economic advisory team and all they could come up with was this?
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: ScavengerType]
#9802527 - 02/15/09 01:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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You seemed to have missed the part where I said I don't support it. I'm just saying any action taken to affect the economy is going to be lagged my at least measurement and perhaps even in effect.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: memes]
#9802635 - 02/15/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
meams said: Not happy? Change something - bitching on the internet doesn't yield any progress. I bet none of you have even taken the time to email your representative to tell 'em how dissatisfied you are with their inability to read the whole bill.
Wrong, I emailed both senators quite recently to lay out my opposition to this massivly irresponsible theft and redistribution scheme (only those with government approval need apply). If the govenrment needs to stimulate shit then give refunds on taxes- even retroactivly.
I also communicate my opposition to the war on drugs in every email. They may not care, but they can't say they don't know.
I also like Seuss' idea but also fear it may be too short. I think a better provision is to require only one issue per bill- with definitions worked out. Stop jamming shit together.
And zappa has influenced my view. I was a bit more socialist when I came here. Too often the discussion is on what is best rather than what is right then among those choices what is best. For exmaple, how many people have questioned in the media or wherever the propriety of taking money from the buisness and people who comprise our economy and then giving it back, but only to those the government likes. Fuck that- ain't right.
Zappa's frequent discussions on whether the means are even moral to begin with has influenced my thoughts on several matters.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Redstorm]
#9802640 - 02/15/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never said you did but I'm just saying, for that much planning I'd expect at least one economic magic wand.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Redstorm]
#9802682 - 02/15/09 02:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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> did you really think there would be instant results?
How much have we now dumped into the economy... almost 1.5 trillion? Yeah, I expect results. Perhaps the Otards are willing to sit back, spend, and wait for the magic economy fairy come improve their lives, but I set my expectations a bit higher. (I'm blaming Bush as well, before everybody gets all defensive about their Savior getting slammed.)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Seuss]
#9802701 - 02/15/09 02:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't ask whether you expect results. I asked if you expected instant results.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: Redstorm]
#9802829 - 02/15/09 02:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: As much as I am against much of this bill, did you really think there would be instant results?
Then what was the fucking rush? Once again, Barry is managing the only thing he knows how, expectations.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bil [Re: zappaisgod]
#9802835 - 02/15/09 02:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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You won't see me defending him for this nonsense.
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