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OfflineFrood
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Registered: 07/23/02
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
A weird thought of mine.
    #977411 - 10/20/02 06:10 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

This is just a philosophical idea, Im not sure if I truly believe it but, the day after my last mushroom trip I was feeling really enlightenend because I had a good trip and I thought of something. I was thinking about how before there were sentient creatures, that maybe animals eating psychedelic mushrooms planted the seed of human intelligence. Wouldnt it be cool if mushrooms had an important role in developing the human mind? Makes sense to me.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Frood]
    #977422 - 10/20/02 06:14 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Deja vu...

Mushrooms don't code information...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Frood]
    #977446 - 10/20/02 06:27 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

you need to read some t.mckenna, he picks up that idea and runs all day with it.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #977454 - 10/20/02 06:30 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

they could've acted as a catalyst, sure did for me :tongue: 


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OfflineMetasyn
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Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Frood]
    #977474 - 10/20/02 06:42 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

"I don't know who discovered water, but it sure wasn't a fish." 
To discover water, a fish would have to first exist outside of the water. 

Metaphorically, the act of becoming self-conscious is a tricky one.  One way to become aware of something you are immersed in (such as consciousness) is to perturb it in a way that psychedelics do.  Terence McKenna has a theory that eating psilocybin mushrooms could have in a sense made us realize that we were conscious, or somehow enabled the mind to think in a self-conscious way.

Many opponents to this theory claim that the link between selective advantage and psychedelics is pretty weak, but this form of the theory claims that psychedelics preciptated our cultural evolution, not genetic.  Mushrooms don't need to code information to do this, they were just the jolt necessary to propell our consciousness into the accelerating cultural domain that we find ourselves in, something that would have been impossible with the previous limitations of unconscious thought. 

Unfortunately, there is no way to prove or disprove this theory, so it is all conjecture.  Its fun conjecture though :smile: 


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Metasyn]
    #977575 - 10/20/02 07:26 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

"I don't know who discovered water, but it sure wasn't a fish."

This is a good analogy for a "zen" awakening...

Like a fish discovering water which has always been there.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleGalvie_Flu
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Registered: 06/30/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Seuss]
    #977614 - 10/20/02 07:43 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

ill contribute some information to your theory. Scientists think that serotonin is the oldest neurotransmiter, because serotonin receptors in the brain have the most variety, meaning that we have like i think 15 different types of serotonin receptors, versus like 2(i think) dopamine ones. They think that serotonin receptors have evolved the most, therefore they are the oldest.


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InvisibleGalvie_Flu
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Metasyn]
    #977620 - 10/20/02 07:45 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

i kinda disagree, because when the spanish conquistadors came to america, they forbade the mushroom users from using the mushroom, but they let them chew all the coca leaf they wanted.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Metasyn]
    #977659 - 10/20/02 08:04 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

but this form of the theory claims that psychedelics preciptated our cultural evolution, not genetic.

When the locus of selection migrates from genes to memes... damn near anything is possible. Unfortunately, it will be impossible to prove.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #977665 - 10/20/02 08:07 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

i kinda disagree, because when the spanish conquistadors came to america, they forbade the mushroom users from using the mushroom, but they let them chew all the coca leaf they wanted.

Actually... it was the missionaries...
And they banned mushrooms because there were all these stone carvings of mushrooms all over the place. The missionaries destroyed most of the sculptures in their attempt to dispel all the other religions and insert Christianity in their place.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinepimpadelic
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Registered: 06/18/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #977902 - 10/20/02 09:52 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Those fucking christians! Always tryin to push thier bullshit beliefs on somebody :mad: 


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Frood]
    #977955 - 10/20/02 10:11 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

man = ape + mushroom


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man = monkey + mushroom


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: pattern]
    #978198 - 10/20/02 11:24 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: pattern]
    #978201 - 10/20/02 11:25 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

man = ape + mushroom

This is the kind of bullshit I'd like to eliminate (fuck you McKenna!).

Mushrooms CANNOT directly affect your genes (indirect--> can make a better thinker = more fit). If we're talking about MEMES... sure, psilocybin may have a great effect on the pattern recognition ability of an ALREADY conscious being (most notable... humans).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: ]
    #978214 - 10/20/02 11:30 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

man ( say, Bob ) - mushroom = ape?

This "Bob"?---->



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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinepattern
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #978723 - 10/21/02 04:50 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

sclorch, what process do you propose allowed humans to have a consciousness able to be affected by mushrooms?

writing it off as a cosmic coincidence is boring.

the existence of mushrooms precedes man. IMO apes adapted to use them, and by doing so evolved into man. whether that was genetic or memetic is beside the point. mckenna got the idea right, but the underlying scientific explanation and research is still missing.

and yeah, its all bullshit, but thats the way it is.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: pattern]
    #979399 - 10/21/02 10:49 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

writing it off as a cosmic coincidence is boring.

I disagree. I think meaning only comes from the abyss of randomness.

the existence of mushrooms precedes man.

Which species in particular? This is crucial.

IMO apes adapted to use them, and by doing so evolved into man. whether that was genetic or memetic is beside the point.

The locus of selection is of great significance in this case... whether you see it or not. Mushrooms DO NOT interact in the DNA replication (or transcription) process WHATSOEVER. This is a MAJOR discrepancy... I don't see how you can so easily write it off as "beside the point".

mckenna got the idea right, but the underlying scientific explanation and research is still missing.

Missing science is an understatement.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #979424 - 10/21/02 11:13 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

Hi everybody, My very first post!!- been reading some of the threads and thought it was about time i joined in.

Schlorch you said "man = ape + mushroom

This is the kind of bullshit I'd like to eliminate (fuck you McKenna!)"

I see what you mean about mushrooms not having a direct effect on DNA, althought im taking your word on that for now! but are you familiar with the concept of morphogenetic fields?They would perhaps provide the medium for the kind of effects on evolution Mckenna and some people on here have referred to.


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #979524 - 10/21/02 12:02 PM (15 years, 20 hours ago)

Actually... it was the missionaries...
And they banned mushrooms because there were all these stone carvings of mushrooms all over the place. The missionaries destroyed most of the sculptures in their attempt to dispel all the other religions and insert Christianity in their place.


Where did you get this info? I'd like to check it out sometime.. not only does it provide grounds for McKenna's theory, but if the Missionaries were so intent on destroying these 'artifacts' that had pictures of mushrooms on them, then they probably feared them due to the possibility of them contradicting their wares (religon).

Oh and one more thing... Why is it that the tip of a penis looks like a mushroom? Is it just me or is that a little too coincidental?


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
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Re: A weird thought of mine. [Re: Sclorch]
    #979544 - 10/21/02 12:19 PM (15 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:


The locus of selection is of great significance in this case... whether you see it or not. Mushrooms DO NOT interact in the DNA replication (or transcription) process WHATSOEVER. This is a MAJOR discrepancy... I don't see how you can so easily write it off as "beside the point".




Its beside the point... of this thread.  And it was very easy to write that.  :tongue:

sclorch, what process do you propose allowed humans to have a consciousness able to be affected by mushrooms?

I guess you dont want to answer that one.  How about this one:

How did humans evolve from apes?

At least the mushroom theory has evidence: psilocin exists.  Every other theory so far is little better than an educated guess. 


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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