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OfflineYellowSubmarine
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Registered: 10/09/02
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SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY!
    #976362 - 10/20/02 06:14 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

There's no case study by Tim Leary because he's dead and liked Acid. Are shrooms a poison? Why do you people honestly think they are here. What is there function in nature? Is it strictly for humans to see that the world doesn't revolve around them or do you think, perhaps it was some fluke.

Or maybe god is a mad scientist.

-Charlie


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Invisiblezeta
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #976375 - 10/20/02 06:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Good question!  :smile:
I think mushrooms were put here to bring about the birth of human intelligence.


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InvisibleTinMan
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: zeta]
    #976451 - 10/20/02 09:00 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In my opinion, they developed psilocybin and psilocin as deterrents to any animal that tried to eat em. They are pretty much poisons, but after many animals figured out that they would kill, they stopped eating em. So years later, the mushrooms has low levels of psilocybin and psilocin which wouldn't kill, but the animals know not to eat em. I also fear that since so many people are consuming them, they will quickly adapt, but not in this lifetime... This is probably happening because of "survival of the fittest," where only the genes that enable survival live on through the generations. They will probably adapt by producing a poison, or producing less levels of psilocybin and psilocin, but this isn't really important because you'll be dead long before this happens...


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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: TinMan]
    #976479 - 10/20/02 09:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

They will probably adapt by producing a poison, or producing less levels of psilocybin and psilocin, but this isn't really important because you'll be dead long before this happens...

this is of course if we humans picked them from the wild and natural selection was still able to work its magic

drugs nowadays are the new domestic cow .... bud, shrooms, opium


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig




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Offlineaural
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: TinMan]
    #976517 - 10/20/02 10:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

They are pretty much poisons, but after many animals figured out that they would kill, they stopped eating em. So years later, the mushrooms has low levels of psilocybin and psilocin which wouldn't kill, but the animals know not to eat em.




Yeah,except they ARENT "pretty much poisons".They are not really very toxic at all,compared to some other substances mushrooms produce,not to mention the 1000's of toxins the plant kingdom has come up with.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: aural]
    #976765 - 10/20/02 12:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes psilocybin/psilocin are virtually non-toxic. I think they are classified as non-toxic. The concentration of these required in a mushroom to kill even a small animal would be much higher than anything possible in nature.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #976812 - 10/20/02 12:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #976846 - 10/20/02 01:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In the new book "Breaking open the head" Pinchbeck suggests that entheogenic plants are the bridge between the plant world and animals.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineKemist
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: Xlea321]
    #976858 - 10/20/02 01:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In the new book "Breaking open the head" Pinchbeck suggests that entheogenic plants are the bridge between the plant world and animals.

hmmmmm


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig




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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: Kemist]
    #976992 - 10/20/02 02:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

There's this really good book, Food of the Gods, by Terence Mckenna, and it talks about how mushrooms helped us evolve into what we are, very interesting and good book.


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InvisiblePsilosKube
I'm eat todd did

Registered: 07/08/02
Posts: 682
Loc: In bed with your woman
Post deleted by Administrator [Re: TinMan]
    #977002 - 10/20/02 02:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
PK

All information and images posted by myself are fictional and for entertainment purposes only. I accept no responsibility for inapropriate or Illegal use of this information.


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OfflineNeonBlack
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Registered: 11/24/00
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #977621 - 10/20/02 07:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps the purpose was as a poison, though not against large animals. It could have evolved to keep insects at bay. Being eaten away by a bugs is much more likely than being eaten away by a mammal or something. Insects share many of the same neurotransmitters that we do and it wouldn't require near as much psilocybin..


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Anonymous

Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #977630 - 10/20/02 07:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Mushrooms are here to fill their place in the eco system. Why does psiloc(yb)in exist in mushrooms and cause humans to trip? There are many substances in many plants, even in humans, whose purpose is unknown. I think psiloc(yb)in is probably just one of those chemicals, and it just happens to cause us to trip. A fluke, I'd wager..

I'd also wager there are plants that contain substances that are psychoactive to certain animals, and not humans, due to the difference in brain structure.
A very interesting topic, to be sure.


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Anonymous

Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: NeonBlack]
    #977639 - 10/20/02 07:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You make a good point. Certain animals, certain mushroom predators, may be highly reactive to psilo(cy)bin, due to a vastly different brain structure. So it may be a poison. It may be nature tossing you a bone, letting us know theres so much more out there than our daily rat race lives would have us believe... Maybe its just a fluke... What I wouldn't give to know..


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: ]
    #977695 - 10/20/02 08:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Here's an idea: if it wasn't in mushrooms, would psilocybin/psilocin exist elsewhere in life?

Tryptamines seem to be a very common type of chemical found in a vast portion of the life on this planet (maybe all life?). So tryptamines must be a basic result (and necessity?) of the existence of complex organisms.

I think maybe psilocin exists because it was bound to exist somewhere in life. It may have been up to coincidence as to which lifeform ended up producing it.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleTinMan
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: trendal]
    #977790 - 10/20/02 09:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am aware that these chemicals are non-toxic, but they aren't to many animals... sure, maybe raising mushrooms in a controlled enviornment will keep them from adapting, but sooner or later, something is gonna happen so it can protect itself from humans.


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Offlineaural
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: TinMan]
    #977946 - 10/20/02 10:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

People have been raising domesticated cattle a lot longer than domesticated cubensis.Are the cows ever going to evolve to fight back?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: TinMan]
    #978246 - 10/20/02 11:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Humans aren't hurting mushrooms, though. We provide them with better conditions and much higher survival rates than anything in nature. A species may addapt through mutation but the mutations that survive would be the ones that help survival the most. If shrooms mutated into something toxic humans would stop growing and spreading them. Less of the species would survive if that happened.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: ]
    #978504 - 10/21/02 01:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Certain animals, certain mushroom predators, may be highly reactive to psilo(cy)bin,

None have been found yet. In fact there's an article showing where sheep will eat magic mushrooms the exclusion of every other food source because they enjoy it so much.

Psilocybin serves no purpose in the life system of the mushroom. Yet it donates 10-15% of it's precious energy to producing it. Nature never allows such wastes of energy without a very good reason. Poison it ain't.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
??????????????

Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEA [Re: Xlea321]
    #978556 - 10/21/02 02:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've read that some chemicals in cubensis are suspected to have negative affects on insect lifecycles. It doesn't kill them, but rather keeps them from achieving the next step in their life cycle. the active chems in shrooms may just be a product of some other reaction that's essential for their survival. Plus do we really know that that the psilo-chems don't play a part in the life cycle of these fungi? By the way, does anyone know the relation b/w tryptophan, tryptamine and tryptose? Is tryptamine the just tryptophan w/ an NH2 where an H+ once was? Tryptose is a sugar, apperantly, but how is it related to the others?


Edited by cheesenoonions (10/21/02 02:43 AM)


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEA [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #978576 - 10/21/02 02:48 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

what a great thought, psilocybins will evolve to be more potent in order to 'kill us'! i cant wait!!!!!!!!!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #978874 - 10/21/02 06:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Wheteher you know it or not Tim Leary loved Psilocybian Mushrooms. In fact it was Leary who brought the first mushroom pillls to harvard University from Sandoz laboratories in Basel Switzerland int he late 1960s after haveing eaten 7 specimens of Psiilocybe caerulescens catherered by an old shaman women name Crazy Juana. IT was an associate of Leary';s named Frank baron who wrought the shrooms to Leary at his villa in Cuernavaca, Mexico and then Leary and Richard Alpeert (Baba Ram Dass) returned to Harvard and informed all of their friends of the miracle he experienced in Mexico, thus leading to his ordering 100 tablets which he used up in one whole weekend at his home amongst friends. Leary believed that he should try them out on himself and his friends before he applied for permission to use them on Prisoners at the conconrd State Massachussets Reformatory for men, where LSD and Mescaline and placebo were also used.

Within two years of Leary;s first mushroom experience he had turned on over five hundred people to psilocybian mushrooms and the pills which he had continously ordered from sandoz in La suisse.

And for a couple of years he was very much afraid to even try LSD. He always beliue3ved that it was the CIA who brought him into the acid experience.

Anyway, strange title for a post.

mj

Oh yes, any substance can be toxic at a given dose.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: TinMan]
    #978889 - 10/21/02 06:23 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

To the Invizable man, many animals love and eat psilocybian mushrooms from biirds to snails and slugs to cows in the pastures who chew them in their cuds as they dangle from their mouths while eating tall grases withich harbor long stringy species of Copelandia. Squirrels love Amanita muscaria as do reindeer. In fact their are actual reports of reindeers attacking and killing humans who are intoxicated on Amanita muscaria and who are taking a leak in the woods.

The deer can smell the shroom urine from half a mile a way. The drinking of the urine mixed with shrooms can be found recorded inthe Rig Veda the Vedic Hymns of the Aryan race.

Also Rats, cockroaches, ants and termites also love to eat psilocybian mushrooms and as usual you can see squirrels around the Seattle area where there aee gnawed amanita shrooms and the squirrells love to romp and stomp and play while under their influence.
Horses have also been known to eat aminta muscaria, so where evr you got this idea that they are poisonous to animals is in fact miscorrect.

Have a shroomy trip.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: aural]
    #978914 - 10/21/02 06:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Aural, that statement makes no sense.

AThe domestication of animals have nothing to do with the domestication of psilocybe cubensis.

In fact there were mushrooms in all manure of four-legged ruminants ever since they existed.

How do you think early primitive mankibnd found the mushrooms they learned to eat. They were hungry and would follow the large herds of undomesticated mammals such as the wooly mammoth, the water buffalo, the oxen, the deer etc. How did they folow these animals, these early food-hunter gatherers? By following the manure trails they left behind. Thus they found the mushrooms. And P. cubensis is not from Cuba, it is of Asian Origin and was originally named Striopharia cubensis by a mycologist named Earle who collected the first foundt recorded specimens in Cuba.in 1904

Two years later it was discovered in Tonkin (North Viet-Nam)by Patouillaird who named it Naematoloma caerulescens, and later a few years after another mycologists called it Stropharia caerulescens

Anyway, Thee ae only about two and a half dozen mushrooms which grow in manure which have psilocine and/or psilocybine in them and another 160 or more which grow in deciduous woods and or in pastureland soil or among dcayed leaved, twigs, woodchips and barkmulch so the fact that a few grow in manure has no baring on the fact that there are over two 14 psychoactive mushroom species world wide and only a small portion are from manure.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: trendal]
    #978918 - 10/21/02 06:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Trendal, Dmt was created in a laboratory in the early 1950s after its association with serotonine and the fact that it was related to the discovery of psilocine and psilocyb8ine.

Now it is known to occur naturally in over 400 plants worldwide.. Including recent discoveries my Dr. Michael Smith of the University of Natal in Pretoria, South Africa who found DMT present in three varieties of edible seaweed found off the coast of Madagascar.

mj


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OfflineSka_mad_hatter
CT Trips

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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #979436 - 10/21/02 11:18 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

1) leary loved the mushroom way before he even heard the letters LSD

1) there is a certain monley that rubs a lizard on his body to trip. ANd they all do it for fun FACT!


--------------------
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always
worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlineaural
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Registered: 05/04/00
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #979476 - 10/21/02 11:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Aural, that statement makes no sense.




mj-it makes perfect sense.

I'm talking about DOMESTICATION, not "hunter-gathering".As in purposfull selective breeding.Your post had nothing to do with that topic.

But I'm not trying to start an argument.Just proposing that if people think mushrooms are going to evolve to protect themselves,why wouldn't other plants and animals that humans have been even more involved with?


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Offlinespliffguru
guru of spliffs

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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: Xlea321]
    #979940 - 10/21/02 03:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The suggestion of monkeys eating mushrooms, reminds me of a study I read the other day in a book in my school library about LSD. It said when they were first testing the effects of LSD, they had given it to chimpanzee's and watched how it interracted in it's environment. What it did was confuse the other chimps, and excluded itself from their society. Proposing that if all the chimps were to take LSD, or shrooms in this case, I'm positive it would produce interesting results....anyone have a monkey they want to donate to science?  :tongue:

The study also showed that spiders at low does of LSD would weave intricate webs, and on higher doses wouldn't weave at all.


--------------------
There was a point to this message, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: spliffguru]
    #979958 - 10/21/02 03:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Peter De Witt wrote several papers on the administration of LSD, Mescaline and psilocybine to spiders. They found that the spider who wove the most perfectly semetrical web was the spider who consumed the mushrooms.

And by the way the first animal studies involving hallucinogenic mushrooms was in the early 1917's by Michael Levine who fed Panaeolus venonosus extracts to frogs, cats, dogs, turtles, and other laboratory animals.

mj

Of course the animal could not give a human response as to what was happening to him and so the research was placed on the laboratory shelf until the middle 1950s when Albert Hofmann also attemptemed to fo the same. Until he decided that the only eay he could find out what was happening was that he himslf would try the mushrooms. thuse leading him to realize that they worked onthe same part of the brain that LSD did and so he extracted and then later synthesized the chemicals of psilocine/psilocybine.

mj


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #16915683 - 09/26/12 06:54 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe the mushrooms gave us our intelligence and knew if they made an animal intelligent, they'd cultivate them and make them spread everywhere, thus making them one of the most popular mushrooms around.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: SHROOMS? A POISON? A new case study by TIM LEARY! [Re: Mad Season]
    #16915690 - 09/26/12 06:55 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Lol oh shit bumped an old thread. My bad.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
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