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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9251508 - 11/15/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher said: Weren't you referring to the crown chakra by mentioning the thousand-petalled lotus? If not, I have no idea what you mean.
everyone has their own interpretation of what a chakra is, so i see no point in using the word. same could be said about the thousand-petaled lotus, but i think more people understand what i mean when i say that.
have you ever felt your mind activating and opening in deep states of meditation, or while on a high dose of a psychedelic? this is what i mean.
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I think you too hastily categorize rage and other emotions as negative thought-patterns; if they weren't functionally useful, we would not have them.
i'm talking about attachment to these processes.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9251569 - 11/15/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've felt what I ascribe to be my third eye open during deep states of meditation or psychedelics; where I found a deep state of contemplation/bliss with the cosmic One, complete with enhanced intuition and emotional perception. What's the difference between this and the thousand-petaled lotus?
Also, attachment to any sort of process (even to the neocortical processes such as empathy and love that the author in the OP supports) is negative--it implies a lack of adaptability and a relying on habit and tradition to overcome external forces; something which is not conducive to a well-formed mind. At the same time, to completely expunge so-called negative emotions such as lust or rage, as the author again suggests, is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A well-timed use of rage can mean the difference between life or death in hand-to-hand combat; without passion, lust, or jealousy love would be far more monotonous than it is now.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9251664 - 11/15/08 08:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher said: I've felt what I ascribe to be my third eye open during deep states of meditation or psychedelics; where I found a deep state of contemplation/bliss with the cosmic One, complete with enhanced intuition and emotional perception. What's the difference between this and the thousand-petaled lotus?
i'd rather not discuss the differences. but i will say the awakening of the thousand petaled lotus is the awakening of self-awareness/insight into mind.
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Also, attachment to any sort of process (even to the neocortical processes such as empathy and love that the author in the OP supports) is negative
attachment to thought process = less lucid state of mind identification with the moment = growth of lucidity/birth of the lotus
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At the same time, to completely expunge so-called negative emotions such as lust or rage, as the author again suggests, is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A well-timed use of rage can mean the difference between life or death in hand-to-hand combat
a martial arts 'master' would disagree.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9251999 - 11/15/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deranger said:
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At the same time, to completely expunge so-called negative emotions such as lust or rage, as the author again suggests, is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A well-timed use of rage can mean the difference between life or death in hand-to-hand combat
a martial arts 'master' would disagree.
And a Norse berserker would agree... what's your point? Different fighting styles use different tactics--this doesn't change the fact that wanting to abolish all negative emotions is absurd, if it's even possible to begin with.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9252087 - 11/15/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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again, this is about freeing oneself from attachment to emotion. there is a very big difference here.
and my point was that a master samurai who's not identified with emotions such as rage would mangle a Berserker fueled by rage and underdeveloped self-awareness.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252129 - 11/15/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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. And you know this how? You incorrectly assume that a Berserker has an automatically less-developed sense of self-awareness; not only do you not have justification for this but I could similarly argue that the master samurai has an underdeveloped emotional system and a fundamental difficulty in embracing his own repressed feelings.
Frankly, I don't know which one would win, but an overdose of adrenaline-induced opioids in the human body and brain has been known to compel a soldier to fight with fearless rage and indifference, something that the calmly dispassionate samurai could never match. At the same time, the samurai would be able to rationally select a strategy that might be able to outsmart the berserker. The outcome of the battle would most likely depend upon the individual merits of the two parties, not on their fighting styles. To blindly dismiss any method that encompasses embracing one's emotions to the fullest extent (as typified in the berserker's rage) as lacking in self-awareness is a bit naive, IMO.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
Edited by deCypher (11/15/08 09:50 PM)
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9252182 - 11/15/08 09:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher said:You incorrectly assume that a Berserker has an automatically less-developed sense of self-awareness;
no i don't - because he uses his rage as his method of attack. this is a sign of underdeveloped self-awareness. anyone who uses anger is not very self-aware IMO.
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not only do you not have justification for this but I could similarly argue that the master samurai has an underdeveloped emotional system and a fundamental difficulty in embracing his own repressed emotions.
then he would not be a master samurai 
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opioids
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zouden
Neuroscientist


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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252195 - 11/15/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't like that Tom Robbins guy nearly as much as this guy:
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252197 - 11/15/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deranger said: this is a sign of underdeveloped self-awareness. anyone who uses anger is not very self-aware IMO.
Yes, this is what you've already said. Where's your justification for this? 
Obviously blindly following one's emotions is not being very self-aware. But choosing when and where to go into a blind rage can reap great rewards, as well as having great control over one's emotional system. I'd argue that the samurai, although extremely skilled at dispassionate, calm, strategic combat, is altogether unbalanced just as the berserker is in being extremely skilled at summoning rage upon command.
The ideal combination would be someone who can not only survey a scene dispassionately, but also use adrenaline, rage, and passion to make the difference when it counts.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9252246 - 11/15/08 10:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
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deranger said: this is a sign of underdeveloped self-awareness. anyone who uses anger is not very self-aware IMO.
Yes, this is what you've already said. Where's your justification for this? 
can there be justification for my feeling of unawareness?
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But choosing when and where to go into a blind rage can reap great rewards
i get what you're saying, but still disagree. the Berserker would have a better chance at defeat without going emo IMHO.
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I'd argue that the samurai, although extremely skilled at dispassionate, calm, strategic combat, is altogether unbalanced just as the berserker is in being extremely skilled at summoning rage upon command.
if the Samurai and Berserker were equally self-aware, it would be a long battle and i could not say who would win.
but if one of them were to go emo, they'd probably lose IMHO.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252261 - 11/15/08 10:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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. Berserker and Emo should never appear in the same sentence together, IMO.
+ =
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: zouden]
#9252262 - 11/15/08 10:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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zouden said: I don't like that Tom Robbins guy nearly as much as this guy:
hate the hater, not the quack.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9252272 - 11/15/08 10:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252292 - 11/15/08 10:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll be back in a few; I'm feeling the urge to ethanolize my bloodstream.
Down to debate some completely arbitrary philosophical topic when I get back?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deCypher]
#9252307 - 11/15/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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naah, i just took 500mg of dxm and about to hit the bed.
maybe some other time though.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252402 - 11/15/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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this thread needs some Ong Bak
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halo
Tripper



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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9252459 - 11/15/08 10:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn, that was a highly interesting read.
My friend has been trying to get to read Jitterbug Perfume for a while now, and well, now I'm convinced.
I'm not going to get up all into the technicalities of what he's talking about. Tom Robbins isn't a scientist, and this is an excerpt from a NOVEL, a fictional piece of work. Still, I think it could contain some profound spiritual truths in the same way that the bible and other spiritual texts have. Is the bible 100% true? probably not, but does it contain certain spiritual truths that we could benefit from? Most definately.
That is how I am approaching the content of this book, more metaphorical and subjective rather than literal and objective.
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: redgreenvines]
#9259042 - 11/17/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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redgreenvines said: i love everything about tom robbins he's so nuts perverse marvellous.
I really enjoyed "Another Roadside Attraction"
Some of his others sucked IMO but there were a few really good ones.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zenmasterzoe
Stranger
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Re: Tom Robbins on Floral Consciousness and Empathetic Telepathy [Re: deranger]
#9758396 - 02/08/09 12:58 AM (15 years, 11 days ago) |
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i correlate the evolution of the brain to the different astrological ages. we are approaching the age of Aquarius.. which is an air sign, indicating the communication and information we are just leaving the age of Pisces, a water sign, dealing with emotions and such. and before that was the age of Aries, a fire sign. Arians are selfish, impatient, argumentative, aggressive.
pretty much sums it up for me!
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