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Offlineclumbsy_smurf
Smurf Chief
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Potency Difference
    #975679 - 10/19/02 11:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

everyone says that cubensis is at it's highest potency when they are harvested right as the veil starts to tear. I was wondering the potency difference between those and one's grown for spore printing. How much potency is lost.

Do they actualy loose psilocybin content, or do they just stay at the same content but weigh more?


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i know i know, i dont know how to speel, get off my back alrady.


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InvisibleTinMan
Stranger

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 2,956
Loc: Russia
Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #975695 - 10/19/02 11:58 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

This has a lot of views to it... I'm not exactly sure when its potency is at a peak, but I like to pick mine 2-5 days after the veil tears as long as it is big enough.


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Invisibleangryshroom
Stranger
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Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #975979 - 10/20/02 02:50 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I really dont believe there will be a noticible difference in potency.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #976330 - 10/20/02 05:34 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

the veil is irrelevant and does not effect potency


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Potency Difference [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #976347 - 10/20/02 05:56 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think he's saying that the veil is indicitive of maturity.
My SWAK is that the mushie stops increasing potentcy, and merely increases in size, thus diluting potency(pergram).
One vender says that 1oz of large shroom"X" produces 5-6 trips, but an oz.of small mushies of the same strain will produce 20+ trips.


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Invisiblezeta
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: Potency Difference [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #976374 - 10/20/02 06:26 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Well put  :smirk:
What does SWAK mean?


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OfflineJazzMatazz
addict

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
Re: Potency Difference [Re: zeta]
    #976669 - 10/20/02 11:47 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I entered SWAK in my Babylon Translator and it gave me:
Quote:

SWAK (Sealed with a Kiss)
Der Gru? der benutzt wird um eine romantische Koversation zu beenden. (Abk?rzung im Internet)



So in English: Used to end a romantic conversation. SWAK is the abbreviation.
Anyway: I dont think he meant that! (So why did I post it then?  :confused: Dunno!  :wink: :tongue:  ) 


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Perception is limited to consciousness.Expand it and unfold other realities.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 4,657
Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #977077 - 10/20/02 03:11 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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Offlineclumbsy_smurf
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Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Potency Difference [Re: ralphster44]
    #977906 - 10/20/02 09:54 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

well, i've gone beyond listening to what vendors say, i'd rather listen to actual people, not a sales pitch. it seems that actual people dont notice much, but has anyone noticed any considerable difference?


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i know i know, i dont know how to speel, get off my back alrady.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #977932 - 10/20/02 10:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Vendors are actual people, just actual people that sell spores, and how would that advice be a sales pitch?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Anonymous

Re: Potency Difference [Re: Skikid16]
    #977943 - 10/20/02 10:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Some vendors grow mushrooms for scientific purposes, or have access to scientific studies (ie sporeworks). When they say there are differences in potency, they could be talking about undetectable differences that are only noticed in extractions.


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Offlineclumbsy_smurf
Smurf Chief
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Potency Difference [Re: Skikid16]
    #977997 - 10/20/02 10:26 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

well, it's called advertisement.

you ever watch those infomercials at night? how the product is really wonderfull on tv, but if you ever buy it, or know someone who's bought it, it's not quite as good as they say they are. (with the exception of ginsu)

i'm sure we've all heard about some vendors calling certain strains cubensis/azurcens hybreeds because thier "really super potent" but it turns out thier wrong?

think about it. they can actualy make more money this way. If you dont grow your mushrooms to maturity for spore printing because you want some 'super potent' shrooms, they will keep having to buy new syringes/prints. Now i know most people will still grow to get prints, but think of the person who dont know any better. The reason why people buy grow kits is cause they dont know any better. (with the exception of some)


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i know i know, i dont know how to speel, get off my back alrady.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #978018 - 10/20/02 10:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Harvest all but one or two fruit bodies that will be used to make prints, problem solved. Damn dude, Ralph is a good guy, and he lends a helping hand more than he should, next time if you don't want vendors answering, then say it before a vendor goes out of his way to answer you, but if I were you, I would take any help I could get.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlineclumbsy_smurf
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Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Potency Difference [Re: Skikid16]
    #978067 - 10/20/02 10:44 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

One vender says that 1oz of large shroom"X" produces 5-6 trips, but an oz.of small mushies of the same strain will produce 20+ trips.





is what i was refering to. which seems a bit too outrageous. i didnt even see that it was ralphster who answered. when he answered he had good input. i clicked on the first 'reply' i saw and it just happened to be him. i dont usualy look at the names of people.



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i know i know, i dont know how to speel, get off my back alrady.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #978091 - 10/20/02 10:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Right on, I was wondering why you were like that towards Ralph's good natured advice. As for your question, I don't really know, I haven't done enough "experiments" to really be able to say for sure.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: Skikid16]
    #978655 - 10/21/02 04:14 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

A mushroom is a mushroom is a mushroom.
It`s really difficult to ever notice a potency variation unless the strain is concerned.
With one strain the chances are tiny


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OfflineObiWanKenobi
Jedi Master

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Potency Difference [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #978850 - 10/21/02 06:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

This thread is interestering lets keep it up



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: Anonymous]
    #979219 - 10/21/02 08:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Scientific studies? Really? Ive read many studies and none of them have ever indicated that the veil had any effec on the potency of a mushroom fruit.
For a start different spore-races of cubensis lose their veil at different stages in their maturity - some very early - and i doubt that these mushroom go to double in size yet stop producing alkaloids at the early stage where their veil broke.
Mushrooms continue to produce alkaloids right up until the drop their spores.


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Invisiblematts
matts

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 3,649
[Re: Zen Peddler]
    #979307 - 10/21/02 09:39 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: matts]
    #979525 - 10/21/02 12:02 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Im not sure what your graph represents though, because the whole premise has never been proven. I understand what PF and others are trying to say in that the mushroom stops producing alkaloids at the point of the veil breaking and does not lose potency, but at the end of the day all the evidence ive seen and from many many personal bioassays, have all very much indicated otherwise.
It has been hard enough to actually demonstrate when the mycelia actually begins to produce these alkaloids, and there is no evidence that ive read that has indicated that the mycelia/fruit stops producing alkaloids at any particular stage in its life cycle.


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Invisiblevildechayea
shodan

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 107
Re: Potency Difference [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #979585 - 10/21/02 12:39 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Not being a botanist, but you do see the active chemical in plants being related to reproduction in a number of species, e.g. resin in female chronic nugs, opiates in developing poppies. Some mushies, like Amazon, let you wait a while after the veil breaks before they drop their spores...others, like Hawaiin, seem quick to sporulate after veil breakage. I guess some folks are saying no psilocybin loss, even as a percentage of weight, after sporulation even, and I'd love that to be true 'cause they're bigger & prettier with their umbrellas fully deployed.

On the potency by strain issue, I have found the Thai's to be outstanding. Recently attained a Level 2 trip on .45 gm of Lipa Yai, and another trip - Level 3 - on .6 gm of Lipa Yai. And yeah, I've been around the block.

Just my .02

v


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #980142 - 10/21/02 04:57 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

ive always debated this to myself if they actually lose potency after the veil breaks. someone show me some evidence either way.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i agree. Lipa yais are great.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinexfluffybunnyx
nobody
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Registered: 08/01/02
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #980198 - 10/21/02 05:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

feel free to call me a noob
(which i obviously am)
but...
it seems like, besides cultivation information
no one seems to know jack shit about the specifics of mushrooms
i've been reading these forums for months now,
and every question seems to be talked around, ignored,
or answered with a quote from another person who probably didn't know for sure
in the first place...
don't take this as a flame,
i just wonder how reliable any information may be...
i know the cultivation info is good... the proof is in my fruits  :tongue:
are all the knowledgeable people just not avid posters?
peace
 


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Potency Difference [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #980441 - 10/21/02 07:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Im sure there are people on this site who know more than academics do about these mushrooms.


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Offlinexfluffybunnyx
nobody
Male

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 58
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
Re: Potency Difference [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #980561 - 10/21/02 08:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

didn't really aim that at this board,
or the shroomery, or the people, their cousins, uncles, mommas, and rabbits
that post here
just meant,
it seems there isn't much reliable info on these mushrooms at all
everything in existence seems to have been tested, studied, and examined
i'm just supprised at the lack of details available


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Invisiblevildechayea
shodan

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 107
Re: Potency Difference [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #980638 - 10/21/02 08:59 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

From what I've seen, there's only 2 or 3 academic writers on the subject of cultivation and usage of psilocybe cubensis. Historically, governments have discouraged exploration of most psychoactive plants. If there was easily obtainable, reliable and diverse information on shrooms available, this board wouldn't exist, nor would boards for herpes, adoption, antiwar etc exist. We're all wandering around in the dark trying to help each other out by passing along our experiences. It's one of the amazing things about our times and the 'net: the ability to form an electronic community that fills a void in our society. The Web has enabled the proliferation of spore prints & syringes & mycobags & pods. I'd wager there's more shroom growing and usage than ever in history, by shear numbers. But I also think that because of 9/11, Iraq, thrax, DC shooter, etc that the law enforcement has other priorities right now, as well. While shroomers are, in the establishment view, a threat to the entrenched power structure (a la Politics of Ecstasy), usage of the fungus has not produced significant numbers of suicides, OD's, psychoses etc. Therefore, I'd suspect there'll be some tolerance for awhile. What worries me is the size and commercialism of some spore vendors (not the ones here) will lead to concerns about younger people getting hurt, and hence a clampdown. If we're all cool and somewhat responsible (e.g. not leaving the unlabeled blue honey jar out at the church picnic) then we can enjoy sharing our experiences here, and maybe making the world better, for sometime to come.

Sorry for the rambling soap box rant...

Peace, love & crunchy granola to all!

v


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Invisiblematts
matts

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 3,649
[Re: Zen Peddler]
    #981093 - 10/21/02 11:27 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)



Edited by matts (10/21/02 11:30 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Potency Difference [Re: clumbsy_smurf]
    #981547 - 10/22/02 01:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

When you harvest a flush of mushrooms, you wind up with many different size mushrooms, at various stages of developement.  If it was a good strain grown properly, the majority of pins from the original pin set matured, and sporulated. :smile:

A mycelial network is not continuous system of identical factors.  The pins that matured, did so, because the mycelial network in the immediate area had stored sufficient nutrients, and had access to sufficient moisture.  This is not exact from pin to pin, and hence mushroom to mushroom. Resulting MUSHROOMS have VARIABLE concentrations of goodies within them.  This is about the only thing that has been CONSISTENTLY determined, by measuring GOODIE content scientifically.  That every mushroom has a different concentration of goodies.

The likely hood of consuming X amount of HIGH concentration shrooms increases with the quantity of shrooms that make up a given dose.  If you grow your shrooms to there FULL POTENTIAL, ie sporulation, they tend to be larger, and weigh more.  So fewer shrooms make up a dose.  Fewer chances to get alot of GOOD potency shrooms.

5 grams of aborts is a shit load of mushrooms.  Your chances of getting a shit load of POTENT shrooms are increased over say eating ONE large shroom that dries to 5 grams, and might not be SO potent of a shroom.

It all had absolutely nothing to do with when there Veils broke, it was simple in relation to the QUANTITY of mushrooms making up your dose.

When you look at Potency charts for Pan. cyans, they really aren't that much more potent then cubensis, when combining Psilocybin and Psilocin together.  Cubies are actually sufficiently potent, when you do this.  The simple fact is, one in ten mushrooms might be at the HIGH END of POTENCY for the Strain/species.  If your dose is made up of 20-50 mushrooms, versus, 1-10 mushrooms, your chance of having your DICK knocked around in the dirt would increase with the LARGER number of shrooms, and Increased chance of consuming the POTENT shrooms in the bunch you grew.

Aborts themselves will show the same variability from abort to abort, but HOW many aborts make up a dose? :tongue: 


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OfflineLortimus
Prodigy

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 22
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Bud actuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #4029168 - 04/08/05 01:33 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

>e.g. resin in female chronic nugs, opiates in developing poppies.

Wrong.

Usually natural bud (growing without human interaction) isnt as chronic as human bud. and is exposed to males. Giving it Seeds, however when you find chronic it was likely grown inside (good good not just good) away from males. The idea that Resin stops seed development is a misconception.


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Fear Lime Cat!


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