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THE KRAT BARON
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Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03
#9754169 - 02/07/09 10:09 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have only one question. Why was nothing said about this in 2003?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090207&content_id=3806844&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Quote:
NEW YORK -- Alex Rodriguez tested positive for two anabolic steroids during his 2003 American League MVP season with the Texas Rangers, four sources independently told Sports Illustrated in a report published Saturday.
Rodriguez's name appeared on a list of 104 players who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball's 2003 survey testing, according to a report on SI.com. That testing was conducted as part of a joint agreement with the MLB Players Association to determine if MLB needed to impose random drug testing for the '04 season.
When approached by Sports Illustrated on Thursday at a gym in Miami, Rodriguez reportedly declined to discuss his 2003 test results.
"You'll have to talk to the union," Rodriguez said. When asked if there was an explanation for his positive test, he said, "I'm not saying anything."
While MLB's drug policy has expressly prohibited the use of steroids without a valid prescription since 1991, there were no penalties for a positive test in 2003. The list of the 104 players who tested positive remains under seal in California.
SI.com reported that two sources familiar with the evidence that the government has gathered in its investigation of steroid use in baseball and two other sources with knowledge of the testing results said that Rodriguez is one of the 104 players identified as having tested positive, in his case for testosterone and an anabolic steroid known by the brand name Primobolan.
The SI.com report also indicated, citing three Major League players, that Rodriguez was tipped by MLBPA chief operating officer Gene Orza in early September 2004 that he would be tested later that month. Rodriguez declined to respond to SI when asked about the warning Orza allegedly provided him.
When Orza was asked on Friday in the union's New York City office about the tipping allegations, he told SI, "I'm not interested in discussing this information with you."
John Hart -- the Texas Rangers' general manager during the 2003 season and now a senior advisor with the club -- appeared on the MLB Network on Saturday, saying that he was saddened by the report but not completely surprised.
"I think in the climate that we have today, you don't have much shock anymore," Hart said. "Obviously Alex probably is the best player in baseball. This has always been a special talent and the guy has been putting up Hall of Fame numbers since the day he showed up in the big leagues. It saddens me. I've been in the game for almost 40 years and it hurts a little bit, if in fact this is true."
Hart -- who served as Texas' GM from November 2001 through October 2005 -- said that he believes Rodriguez will be impacted by the SI report as the Yankees' Spring Training camp prepares to open next week.
"Alex is a great kid, he's got a conscience and loves the game of baseball," Hart said. "I think, if anything, Alex tries to be a pleaser in a lot of ways. Looking up at what he's done and his career, I think it's going to affect him. He has the ability at times to tune it out, but he's in a huge media market there in New York.
"It's going to be a huge story, Spring Training is right around the corner, and you know what's going to happen when you show up at camp. I think it's going to be a little bit of an issue."
The revelations concerning Rodriguez follow information that was obtained through Sen. George Mitchell's 20-month investigation into the use of performance-enhancing substances in Major League Baseball. In many ways, the SI report helps to validate the credibility of the Mitchell Report document.
At the time of the Report's December 2007 release, Mitchell advised that the document was not intended to name names, but to paint an accurate picture of the flaws that existed prior to 2004 in baseball's testing program. In subsequent actions, much of what was problematic has been addressed.
Page 24 of the Mitchell Report reads: "Concerns have been raised about the collection procedures used, including allegations that some players received advance notice of testing." The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Barry Bonds' former personal trainer, Greg Anderson, received notice that Bonds would be tested in late May or early June 2004. Bonds was tested on May 28 and June 4 of that season.
In compiling the Report, the Mitchell Commission investigated the allegations that players received advance notice of tests in 2004. Mitchell interviewed personnel from Comprehensive Drug Testing, Inc., the company responsible for sample collection under the Major League Baseball joint drug program, but representatives denied that they provided advance notice to Bonds or anyone else.
The MLBPA had agreed to begin anonymous survey testing in 2003, for the purposes of determining the scope of the steroids problem in baseball. No penalties would be carried, but more than 5 percent of big league players tested positive, triggering real steroids testing to begin in 2004.
In April 2004, federal agents seized records from two private firms involved in the 2003 survey testing -- Comprehensive Drug Testing, Inc. and Quest Diagnostics, Inc. Those warrants sought drug testing records and samples for 10 Major League players connected with the investigation into the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO).
The agents seized data that could determine the identities of 104 Major League players who tested positive during the 2003 "survey testing" -- tests which were intended to remain strictly confidential, with names known only to the lab that conducted them.
In response to the government's actions, MLB and the MLBPA cut a deal. MLB postponed testing of those 104 players until the union notified them that they had tested positive in 2003 and were vulnerable to federal search warrants.
According to the Mitchell Report, Mitchell wrote that between August and September 2004, MLB's executive vice president of labor relations Rob Manfred pressed Orza to notify the players as soon as possible so that they could be tested. By September 2004, all players had been informed.
But one player told Mitchell he received advance notice from Orza that the next round of testing would occur within two weeks. Mitchell could not reveal the player's identity, but confessed steroids dealer Kirk Radomski wrote this year that the player was David Segui.
The program required that each player be tested only once during the 2004 season, and Mitchell wrote that other players may have received similar notice. The Mitchell Commission looked into allegations of other players receiving advance notice, but was unable to include additional confirmation.
SI.com's report is not the first time that Rodriguez has been connected to allegations concerning MLB's drug policy. Each time, Rodriguez has unequivocally denied having used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing substance.
"I've never felt overmatched on the baseball field," Rodriguez told CBS' Katie Couric in December 2007, shortly after the Mitchell Report's release. "I've always been a very strong, dominant position. And I felt that if I did my work as I've done since I was a rookie back in Seattle, I didn't have a problem competing at any level. So, no, [I never was tempted]."
Asked in that "60 Minutes" interview if he witnessed steroid use or had suspicions, Rodriguez responded, "You hear a lot of things. I mean, I came up in 1993. And you heard whispers from the '80s and '90s. But I never saw anything. I never had raw evidence. And, quite frankly, I was probably a little bit too naïve when I first came up to understand the magnitude of all this."
Rodriguez's first comments of Spring Training 2008 raised eyebrows when he told reporters that he was tested "nine or 10 times" for performance-enhancing drugs in '07.
That throwaway remark sent enough red flags up that Rodriguez released a statement later that evening, clarifying that he had exaggerated the number of tests to prove a point and wasn't being specific.
Under current drug testing rules, players must be tested at least twice during the season. There are also provisions for random testing -- though it is unlikely Rodriguez would have undergone that many tests, unless he flunked a test for a stimulant. That would have subjected him to six additional unannounced tests over the following year.
A first positive test for a stimulant is not subject to discipline and is not announced. Rodriguez said then that he has never failed a test that would subject him to additional testing.
Jose Canseco's 2008 book, "Vindicated," also alleged that the former big league slugger introduced Rodriguez to a known steroids supplier identified only as "Max" in the late 1990s.
Canseco did not claim to have seen Rodriguez use performance-enhancing drugs, but wrote that he "did everything but inject the guy myself." His motives were clouded, however, when Canseco freely admitted that he "hates" Rodriguez and it was revealed Canseco and Rodriguez were at odds over a personal matter.
Rodriguez side-stepped questions on the subject in advance of the book's release, saying that it was "over, as far as I'm concerned," and declining further comment.
It has been yet another tumultuous period for Rodriguez, who is entering the second season of his new 10-year, $275 million contract with the Yankees -- one that could pay him more than $300 million if he becomes baseball's all-time home run king. Two sources familiar with Rodriguez's contract told SI.com that there is no language about steroids in the contract that would put Rodriguez at risk of losing money.
Last week, excerpts surfaced from Joe Torre's book "The Yankee Years," in which it is revealed Rodriguez was referred to as "A-Fraud" in the clubhouse during the 2004 season.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9754597 - 02/07/09 11:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Because it would be awful for the game. Let me tell you how surprised I am 
What a lot of people don't get is that with gear, you don't have to be "on" all the time to have increases in muscle mass or strength. You will of course lose some when you come off (how much depends on a lot of different factors) but if done properly, even 1 or 2 cycles can radically change a person's body, pushing them well beyond the limits that they would have, or already did meet, naturally.
And again, all I can say is 
There will be more of this.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9754704 - 02/07/09 12:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
matt said: I have only one question. Why was nothing said about this in 2003?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-01-12-steroid-policy_x.htm
Quote:
Evolution of the steroid policy
2002
• Before 2002, Major League Baseball had no official policy on steroid use among players. As part of a collective bargaining agreement, players and owners agree to hold survey testing in 2003. If more than 5% of results from the anonymous tests are positive, formal testing and penalties will be put into place the next year.
2003
• Baseball announces after the season that 5% to 7% of test results were positive, triggering the new policy in 2004.
2004
• Each player is tested once a year in season. A first positive test results in treatment, followed by a 15-day suspension for a second positive and up to a year suspension for a fifth positive. The result is no player is suspended for steroid use.
2005
• Baseball agrees to a new policy. Banned substances include steroids, steroid precursors, designer steroids, masking agents and diuretics. There will be one unannounced mandatory test of each player during the season. In addition, there will be testing of randomly selected players, with no maximum number. And there will be random testing during the offseason. The penalties for a positive result are, first positive, 10 days; second, 30 days; third, 60 days; fourth, one year, and all without pay.
In 2003 the testing was done as part of a survey solely to determine the extent of use. The union agreed only to anonymous testing for this purpose. No names were attached to any samples. But there was a major cock up in which somebody put numbers on the samples and then kept a list cross referencing the names with the numbers. This was directly in violation of the agreement with the union. Anonymity had been preserved for a few years until Nowitzki and his gang got a subpoena for those samples and the list in the course of his BALCO investigation. However, that subpoena was supposed to be restricted to only certain players: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9902E6DC1E3FF935A35750C0A9629C8B63
Quote:
For their latest trick, the union lawyers have succeeded in persuading the United States attorney's office in San Francisco to winnow its request for results of baseball's steroids tests last year from all 1,438 players to fewer than 15, a lawyer who has seen the second subpoena said yesterday.
The new subpoena resulted from talks between the United States attorney's office in San Francisco and lawyers for the players union.
But the union may still fight the subpoena on the ground that it attempts to circumvent the players' Fourth Amendment (privacy) rights, no matter how few players are involved.
The lawyer who talked about the subpoena would not identify the players named in the new subpoena but confirmed names when they were mentioned to him: Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, his brother Jeremy, Gary Sheffield, Benito Santiago, Armando Rios, Marvin Benard, Bobby Estalella and Randy Velarde.
The lawyer said the subpoena also named fewer than another handful of players, making the new list fewer than 15.
All of the players are believed to have testified under grants of immunity before the grand jury in its investigation of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, or Balco, of Burlingame, Calif.
All of the players except Sheffield play for or have played for the Giants or the Oakland Athletics.
Rodriguez didn't testify and has never played for either San Fran or Oakland. So MY question is, since the 2003 tests were anonymous and Rodriguez was not included in the subpoena to break the code numbers, where is this story coming from?Quote:
Last week, excerpts surfaced from Joe Torre's book "The Yankee Years," in which it is revealed Rodriguez was referred to as "A-Fraud" in the clubhouse during the 2004 season.
That's just gratuitous assholery throwing that in there. This has been explained numerous times as a joke for the past boring week. These reporters either know that or are incompetent.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9754746 - 02/07/09 12:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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A disturbing sentence from the SI report:
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The list of the 104 players whose urine samples tested positive is under seal in California. However, two sources familiar with the evidence that the government has gathered in its investigation of steroid use in baseball and two other sources with knowledge of the testing results have told Sports Illustrated that Rodriguez is one of the 104 players identified as having tested positive, in his case for testosterone and an anabolic steroid known by the brand name Primobolan. All four sources spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the evidence.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html#?eref=T1 Their names are not being withheld because the evidence is sensitive. Their names are being withheld because they broke the law. The same thing happened to Giambi. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/12/AR2007071201888.html
Quote:
Thursday, July 12, 2007; 7:54 PM
SAN FRANCISCO -- An attorney who admitted leaking the confidential grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and other athletes was sentenced Thursday to two and a half years in prison, by far the harshest penalty to result from the government's steroids investigation.
Troy Ellerman, 44, pleaded guilty in February to allowing a San Francisco Chronicle reporter to view transcripts of testimony by Bonds, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield and other athletes embroiled in the probe. He initially blamed federal investigators for leaking the testimony.
Violating the sanctity of secret testimony is far more serious than using steroids to cheat at a game.
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Madtowntripper
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9754793 - 02/07/09 12:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO -- An attorney who admitted leaking the confidential grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and other athletes was sentenced Thursday to two and a half years in prison, by far the harshest penalty to result from the government's steroids investigation.

Amusing. Certainly deserved, but amusing nonetheless.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9754969 - 02/07/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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All things considered it is a far greater crime to subvert the justice system than to cheat at a game.
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Madtowntripper
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9755194 - 02/07/09 02:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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No argument whatsoever.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9755214 - 02/07/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree 100%.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9756275 - 02/07/09 06:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I thought this, from Mr. Bryant of ESPN.com summed it up well
"The debate over the next few days undoubtedly will shift to the leak, to who spoke to Sports Illustrated and why. And why, if the anonymous source had access to the entire list, was Rodriguez the only person named? The legality of the leak should not be underestimated. Someone has compromised the confidentiality of an agreement. But these questions are important, although they aren't as important as this fact: The full scope of the steroids era is coming into even clearer focus.
Don't forget that the most important informant in American history -- W. Mark Felt, aka Deep Throat -- took down a president in part because he didn't receive the promotion he wanted. Nobody complained then, because the information he leaked was legitimate."
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9756349 - 02/07/09 06:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Actually Felt was quite careful not to leak anything at all. He just confirmed things Woodward and Bernstein got elsewhere. Nobody complained then because nobody knew. Once we found out the deal more than a few people thought Felt should have been prosecuted.
If this moron thinks baseball players cheating is remotely important on the scale of a Presidential cover-up he needs to be severely beaten with a clue bat and get a brain transplant from a baboon. What is far more important is the sanctity of the justice system. Unless, of course, you are a professional rumor monger who is more than a little worried about being compelled to reveal your sources. I believe the reporter Troy Ellerman revealed his information to spent some time in the slammer before Ellerman fessed up. That kind of thing might make Mr Bryant's underwear a little heavy.
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zorbman
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9756557 - 02/07/09 07:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Roid-ball Saga continues!!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9756772 - 02/07/09 08:16 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I hear where you're coming from Zap, but it's all a mess, so personally, I'm just enjoying the rodeo.
Theses guys, who make a ton of money by being held up as our icons, lying their arses off when anybody with any experience with PED's can see that they are lying, deserve to be outed. I am NOT saying that the way that it went is correct, but I'm glad the truth is coming out.
And speaking of a load in their pants, I wonder how the other 103 players on that list feel?
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9760186 - 02/08/09 12:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said: I hear where you're coming from Zap, but it's all a mess, so personally, I'm just enjoying the rodeo.
Theses guys, who make a ton of money by being held up as our icons, lying their arses off when anybody with any experience with PED's can see that they are lying, deserve to be outed. I am NOT saying that the way that it went is correct, but I'm glad the truth is coming out.
And speaking of a load in their pants, I wonder how the other 103 players on that list feel?
Betrayed. Or, rather, about to be.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9760475 - 02/08/09 01:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, I guess the old adage of, "there's nothing to worry about if you got nothing to hide" is especially true in this case.
Maybe they should also feel like cheaters and liars who got caught.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9760652 - 02/08/09 02:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I believe in deals. A deal is a deal is a deal. I also believe in court orders, like the one that sealed this information. I also believe a man has the right to face his accuser. The people who revealed this information are either liars or criminals, maybe both. Remember the Bonds sample from that year that tested negative? Well after they seized it they retested it and it was positive. That is just one test we know for a fact was wrong. Can you guarantee that was the only one? The feds had Bonds' sample retested because they didn't think that lab was competent. These are just some of the many things wrong with this.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9761167 - 02/08/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I hear all of that, but man Zap, these guys juiced. It's that easy. I'm not judging them. Personally, I think the only way for the playing field to be level is to let everyone go at it.
I've been an A-Rod (and Mac, and Sammy and a lot of other guys who juiced) fan for a long time. I used to follow A-Rod on SSA on ESPN when he was in high school. One of the greatest talents to ever step on a diamond. I feel for these guys. You have people like Brett Boone and John Rocker (and even lesser talents) juiced out to the max, chasing you down, what are YOU going to do?
But still, a spade needs to be called a spade. These guys did this, and your desire to find any reason possible to do anything but admit the obvious (unless you really are that ignorant about weight training, supplementing, and PED's) is a little odd.
None of us are saints, I'm not judging them, but these guys' numbers need to be put into the correct light. I'm also interested in what the commissioner knew. I'd like to see him up on some charges if he was aware of this.
Either way, this is going to get REAL messy.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9761247 - 02/08/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whatever Rodriguez was doing did not appear to alter his appearance as much as the cases of Sosa, McGwire and Bonds. Nor did he have a sudden leap in production ala Palmiero and those 3.
Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. The whole ongoing process strikes me as pretty horrendous, though, and I would like to see whoever made these accusations have to stand up and face the music for their law breaking. Here is my suggested A-Rod press release:
Quote:
Mr Rodriguez has no intention of responding to these scurrilous rumors spread by nameless and faceless cowards. He has no knowledge of the results of any of these tests but notes that we are well aware of at least one false result from this laboratory as a result of the Bonds case. Further, at the very least, these cowards have broken US law, either by slander or by violating a court order.
Like I said, maybe he did, maybe he didn't but I think he should take a hard line and just not respond so that this kind of heinous behavior might one day stop. Clemens at least had a named accuser to confront.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9761289 - 02/08/09 04:34 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I see where you're coming from with that, due process is important. And your press release brings up a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and that is do players who flunked know they flunked? Did the commish know?
You could see a good jump in A-Rod's growth, but yeah, no where near Sosa. As far as Mac goes, the guy mashed 49 in 1987 and comes from a family of beasts. His look, in my mind, changed the least. And I would imagine a lot of his desire to use was rooted in the injuries, especially the feet issues he had in the early 90's.
Again, it's a lose/lose for everyone. Bonds and A-Rod were HOF from birth, but now, their reps are tainted. I don't blame them for using. I think the steroid laws in general are about as archaic as the ones we have for MJ. OF course that doesn't cross over into sports, but the vilification of these guys needs to end.
I just want the truth.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9761343 - 02/08/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Whatever Rodriguez was doing did not appear to alter his appearance as much as the cases of Sosa, McGwire and Bonds. Nor did he have a sudden leap in production ala Palmiero and those 3.
Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. The whole ongoing process strikes me as pretty horrendous, though, and I would like to see whoever made these accusations have to stand up and face the music for their law breaking. Here is my suggested A-Rod press release:
Quote:
Mr Rodriguez has no intention of responding to these scurrilous rumors spread by nameless and faceless cowards. He has no knowledge of the results of any of these tests but notes that we are well aware of at least one false result from this laboratory as a result of the Bonds case. Further, at the very least, these cowards have broken US law, either by slander or by violating a court order.
Like I said, maybe he did, maybe he didn't but I think he should take a hard line and just not respond so that this kind of heinous behavior might one day stop. Clemens at least had a named accuser to confront.
QFMFT.
I think it's bullshit that all of the major headlines are titled "A-Rod tested positive in 2003". They should read something like "It is rumored by faceless individuals that A-Rod tested positive in 2003".
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9761434 - 02/08/09 05:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said: I see where you're coming from with that, due process is important. And your press release brings up a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and that is do players who flunked know they flunked? Did the commish know?
I don't think they could have. Nobody ever put the names together with the numbers until the feds got there. Further, the feds subpoena was supposed to be restricted to only those players involved with BALCO. Rodriguez had nothing to do with that. Here's another aspect. These tests were supposed to be for one purpose only, which was to take a survey of the general prevalence of steroid use and as such the accuracy of any one test was unimportant. But when it becomes an issue of individual test results the accuracy is of paramount importance. Just a hideous stench arising from this.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9761546 - 02/08/09 05:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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A-Rod was on the front page of the Denver Post! Just saw that. Crazy.
I guess my thing is that these guys were doping. Period. Most all of them. And I cannot blame them. Steroids are a great tool and are of amazing benefit, for athletes and others alike. I am a fan of their abilities to not only grow tissue, but more importantly, to repair tissue. These guys get torn up, millions and legacies on the line, and there's a fairly simple way to help fix the problem? Why not.
That said, a lot of these guys juiced. Most of them.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9762719 - 02/08/09 08:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree with Schilling 100% here. I was going to say the same thing, the other names MUST come out.
"I'd be all for the 104 positives being named, and the game moving on if that is at all possible," former Boston ace Curt Schilling wrote on his blog Sunday. "In my opinion, if you don't do that, then the other 600-700 players are going to be guilty by association, forever," he wrote. "It appears that not only was it 104, but three of the greatest of our, or any, generation appear to be on top of this list."
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9763092 - 02/08/09 09:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think it's bullshit that all of the major headlines are titled "A-Rod tested positive in 2003". They should read something like "It is rumored by faceless individuals that A-Rod tested positive in 2003".
Do you think he did it?
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
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Uh-oh!
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9764760 - 02/09/09 08:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said: I agree with Schilling 100% here. I was going to say the same thing, the other names MUST come out.
"I'd be all for the 104 positives being named, and the game moving on if that is at all possible," former Boston ace Curt Schilling wrote on his blog Sunday. "In my opinion, if you don't do that, then the other 600-700 players are going to be guilty by association, forever," he wrote. "It appears that not only was it 104, but three of the greatest of our, or any, generation appear to be on top of this list."
Schilling is an idiot. I didn't hear him saying this in 2004 when the results were known (i.e. that over 100 players were positive). Then again, maybe he did. But, there is no more taint on the entire group of players now than there was then. There was an anonymity agreement with the union that represented Schilling to his great benefit. They determined that it was not in the players best interest to have publicized testing in 2003, just survey testing. Over 5% tested positive, triggering more testing. Further, there was a court order putting all of that information under seal. The people who revealed this information have committed a crime and so far there is one victim. Now the retired cunt wants 103 more victims. One wrong does not justify 103 other wrongs. There are quite a few of the same assholes demanding this who would scream bloody fucking murder if they were forced to undergo this scrutiny. There is no argument that these were the work rules. They were specifically NOT the work rules. How about we test everybody for everything ever? Think about it this way. What happens to medical confidentiality under that rationale? We'll promise to keep your results confidential unless you get rich and famous and there is something wrong. I'm going to repeat myself. Schilling is an idiot with a small dysfunctional brain who doesn't give a fuck about anybody except....Cunt Schilling. The players' union had a deal. That is the union of all the players, not just clean players. How come Curt the cunt, if he was so concerned, didn't name teammates, while he was playing, who he thought was juicing. He's been on enough teams, I bet he thought dozens were juicing. Do you want to guess why he didn't. It's because it wouldn't have been good for Cunt, that's why. Now he thinks it is. Do you know what group of players has the highest prevalence of juicing? Pitchers. Fuck Cunt Schilling where he breathes.
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zappaisgod
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Do you think he did it?
Don't really care. It is far less important than the real crimes committed here.
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9764934 - 02/09/09 09:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well dodged. 
Not that I'm disagreeing with you about the need to adhere to laws but why were these records sealed in the first place?
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zappaisgod
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Because they were private medical records. Absent a work rule requiring named testing agreed upon between the union and the owners they remain private medical records. Even in the subsequent agreement, which was enacted after 5% tested positive in 2003, the first positive test was to be held confidential with increased testing. The results would only be made public after a second failed test. Rodriguez was given no opportunity to challenge the results, the sample right now has passed through so many hands that provenance can't be assured, and the leakers are criminals. There is a much higher weasel factor here and it is held by the leakers, who should be revealed as the common criminals they are and prosecuted like Troy Ellerman.
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765085 - 02/09/09 10:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Was this the case with Barry Bonds as well? And by that I mean criminal leaks by reporters.
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zappaisgod
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No. They had a subpoena for Bonds and several other BALCO guys. NOT for anybody else, including Rodriguez. Also, as I linked earlier, Troy Ellerman, the asshole who leaked about Giambi's GJ testimony, was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison.
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765111 - 02/09/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I only mention that because your not caring about whether A-rod did or didn't cheat by using steroids is a clear departure from what you had to say about Bonds a year ago.
Quote:
That said, he is a cheating cocksucker who has cheapened my favorite game
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7274781#Post7274781
So is A-rod a "cheating cocksucker" as well now or is he not because he is a Yankee?
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zappaisgod
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Yep, if he did take them he is a cheating cocksucker who has cheapened my favorite game. I have no personal favor for Rodriguez. I think he's a fucking moron. He has also been unfairly victimized by weasels, a status Giambi can claim but not Bonds.
Now then, let's return to what is important, which is money grubbing whores who will violate the justice system for fame and fortune, i.e. Selena Roberts et al. In the Giambi/ Ellerman case the reporters were held in contempt of court and faced 18 months pending appeal before Ellerman confessed. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/14/BAGPRO4RVR3.DTL
Quote:
The subpoenas, received last May, demanded that the reporters identify the source or sources of the grand jury testimony, and that The Chronicle turn over any documents that might reveal the source.
When Fainaru-Wada and Williams refused to testify, White held them in contempt last September, saying a 1972 U.S. Supreme Court ruling had established that journalists have no special privilege to withhold evidence from a grand jury.
The judge ordered the reporters imprisoned for up to 18 months, unless they agreed to testify earlier, and also fined The Chronicle $1,000 a day for defying its subpoena.
The penalties have been suspended while the reporters and the newspaper appeal to the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which had scheduled a hearing for March 7.
Their lawyers have argued that a 1996 Supreme Court ruling opened the door for federal judges to recognize a journalist's right to protect confidential sources when the value of the reporting to the public outweighed any harm caused by the leak.
I want Selena Roberts (I have hated her since she wrote for the Times, and endlessly aggrieved black woman) dragged before a court to reveal her weasels. Don't you?
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jewunit
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765320 - 02/09/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Honestly I think the rest of the names should be released. Why should A-Rod be thrown under the bus but no one else? Release all the names and put the fuck who leaked it in jail for leaking all 104, not just Rodriguez.
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9765378 - 02/09/09 11:41 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Honestly I think the rest of the names should be released. Why should A-Rod be thrown under the bus but no one else? Release all the names and put the fuck who leaked it in jail for leaking all 104, not just Rodriguez.
QFT
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9765390 - 02/09/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Honestly I think the rest of the names should be released. Why should A-Rod be thrown under the bus but no one else? Release all the names and put the fuck who leaked it in jail for leaking all 104, not just Rodriguez.
No no no no. Nobody should have been thrown under the bus. Fucking the other 103 does not unfuck Rodriguez. The only people who should get to decide whose name gets released should be those 103 other people. If they want to stand up and say "I am Spartacus" they can. In fact, if the rest of the players had any balls they should all stand up and say "I am Spartacus" and totally stuff it up SI's and Selena the Cunt's ass.
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jewunit
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765407 - 02/09/09 11:47 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nobody should have been thrown under the bus, but someone was. Because he's the highest profile baseball player. It's gonna get released anyway, if it's a bunch of amazing players then whatever, what does it even matter?
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9765572 - 02/09/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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It matters because it is wrong. It is a corruption of the justice system. Whoever leaks this info should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile......Rodriguez is copping to this as we speak.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9765667 - 02/09/09 12:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Honestly I think the rest of the names should be released. Why should A-Rod be thrown under the bus but no one else? Release all the names and put the fuck who leaked it in jail for leaking all 104, not just Rodriguez.
Yup. It's not fair that Alex is the only one getting crushed. I didn't realize how big of a deal this was going to be. It's STILL on the front page of the Denver Newspapers 
The bottom line is the players, and the leakers all need to face the music.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave......"
Sorry, I couldn't resist
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765677 - 02/09/09 12:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It matters because it is wrong. It is a corruption of the justice system. Whoever leaks this info should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile......Rodriguez is copping to this as we speak.
What?
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jewunit
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9765732 - 02/09/09 01:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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No I meant as far as how it effects my views of baseball. If all the best players are using steroids, then whatever.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9765775 - 02/09/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090209&content_id=3811116&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Quote:
A-Rod admits steroid use in Texas
Three-time MVP 'deeply regretful' for use of performance enhancers
By Bryan Hoch / MLB.com NEW YORK -- Alex Rodriguez admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs in an interview on Monday with ESPN.
Rodriguez told veteran baseball reporter Peter Gammons that he used steroids "for a period of time" and only when he was with the Rangers. Rodriguez played for Texas from 2001-03 before being traded to the Yankees prior to the '04 season.
"When I arrived in Texas in 2001, I felt an enormous amount of pressure," Rodriguez said. "I felt like I had all the weight of the world on top of me, and I needed to perform -- and perform at a high level -- every day.
"Back then, it was a different culture. It was very loose. I was young, I was stupid, I was naïve. I wanted to prove to everyone that I was worth being one of the greatest players of all-time. I did take a banned substance, and for that I'm very sorry. I'm deeply regretful.
"I'm sorry for that time, I'm sorry to my fans, I'm sorry to my fans in Texas. It wasn't until then that I ever thought about substances of any kind. Since then, I've proved to myself and to everyone that I don't need any of that."
Sports Illustrated reported on its Web site Saturday that Rodriguez tested positive for two anabolic steroids, testosterone and Primobolan, during his 2003 American League MVP season.
"It was such a loosey-goosey era; I'm guilty for a lot of things," Rodriguez told Gammons. "I'm guilty of being negligent, naïve, not asking all the right questions. To be quite honest, I don't know exactly what substance I was guilty of using."
The full interview will be broadcast on the 6 p.m. ET edition of SportsCenter and will be posted on ESPN.com.
Earlier reports Monday said that Rodriguez has been consulting with his long-time representative, Scott Boras, to decide how to respond to the bombshell that pegged him as one of the 104 players who tested positive in Major League Baseball's 2003 survey testing program.
Rodriguez had not commented publicly since the story broke, having been on a short vacation in the Bahamas. The Yankees have so far declined comment.
The alleged positive tests for testosterone and Primobolan came during a season when A-Rod led the AL in home runs, runs scored and slugging percentage. Penalties for positive tests were not in place until 2004, and there is no indication that Rodriguez tested positive anytime after '03.
Boras told Fox Sports on Saturday that even if the SI report is accurate, "It was one season, and since then, Alex has gotten the 'Good Housekeeping' seal the last five years by passing baseball's drug tests."
Boras and Rodriguez had a famous falling out, after the agent leaked word of A-Rod's decision to opt out of his Yankees contract. Rodriguez has said that he was "white as a ghost" when news of the decision broke during Game 4 of the 2007 World Series between the Red Sox and Rockies.
The Yankees had said at the time they would not negotiate with Rodriguez, but with A-Rod desperate to stay in New York, the slugger shunned Boras and personally negotiated aspects of a new 10-year, $275 million contract with ownership.
The slugger has continued to keep Boras as his baseball representative, but he has also looked elsewhere for guidance. In December 2007, Rodriguez signed on with Madonna's agent, Guy Oseary, to explore opportunities to expand his image and brand.
A friend of Rodriguez's told the Post that Boras could be a good person to turn to at this time.
"I feel like he needs help with stuff right now," the friend said. "When they were a tandem, there was more good than bad. For a little while now, it's been one nightmare after another."
Rodriguez does not have to report to the Yankees' Spring Training camp until Feb. 17, but he has a public event scheduled this week. The University of Miami plans to honor Rodriguez on Friday at a rededication of its baseball field, Mark Light Field at Alex Rodriguez Park.
A-Rod donated $3.9 million to the school, which he planned to attend before being selected No. 1 overall by the Seattle Mariners in the 1993 Draft. The Palm Beach Post has reported that the event will go on as planned.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9765800 - 02/09/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think coming out and admitting it was a good play. He used for a period of time but has been clean for years. Now all speculation is dead and it's time to move forward and go after the motherfuckers who leaked his name. They deserve to go to prison.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Redstorm
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9765853 - 02/09/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now if any of these other listed players are men and give a shit about Arod or the fraternity of MLB players, they will stand up with him. I don't expect them to, but it's the right thing to do.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9765855 - 02/09/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
matt said: Now all speculation is dead and it's time to move forward and go after the motherfuckers who leaked his name. They deserve to go to prison.
100% absolutely and with extreme prejudice. He has hundreds of millions of dollars and I hope he spends a few thousand on investigators to find this out. He doesn't need to be a passive victim, he has the wherewithall to fuck these people unto the ends of the earth. Expose THEM. See how they like it. There is no court order protecting these criminals. Maybe that will stop this kind of shit. Waterboarding the cunt Selena Roberts would be an excellent start.
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9766167 - 02/09/09 02:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Zap, you should write hallmark cards.
Anyway, I agree, ALL these liars and cheats need to go down. ALL of them. The players, the leakers, it's all gravy.
I've been waiting for this since 1997. Having to deal with the enormous ignorance of the average baseball fan over the past decade has been rough.
"Man I gotta get on creatine like Mark and Sammy"
"A-Rod would NEVER do juice"
And so on and so forth.
Every day guys like Ken Griffey Jr, and Vince Coleman, and Mark Grace look better and better.
Let's get some heads rolling!!
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9766445 - 02/09/09 03:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
"A-Rod would NEVER do juice"
As a few posters in this thread have vehemently claimed and flamed the shit out of those who claimed otherwise. It's hilarious to read their old posts.
Seriously though, I wonder who else is on that list. As much as I love the Red Sox I'd have to admit there are a few players that might be on that. The whole team got a pass during the Mitchell Report due to a blatant conflict of interest and I'd be willing to be that at least one or two of them have done it at one point. My money would have to be on David Ortiz unfortunately.
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whattheheck
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Yeah, I would think so about Ortiz.
And I'm glad I'm not the only one paying attention to what people have said. I have a few people I'm going to hit up and rub this in their faces a bit about A-Rod.
These were the people that acted like Mac and Raffie and Sammy were the only ones. 
I want to see Roger Clemens name on that list so he can go to prison for a bit.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9766533 - 02/09/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I want to see Roger Clemens name on that list so he can go to prison for a bit.
It's pretty obvious Clemens was juicing. He was already exposed in the Mitchell Report for using HGH.
Check out his confession ( obviously a joke)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9766558 - 02/09/09 03:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd rather see Clemens' name not on the list so the rat McNamee can get cornholed. No matter what the truth about Clemens is the truth about McNamee is that he is a rat. I don't think much of rats.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:
"A-Rod would NEVER do juice"
As a few posters in this thread have vehemently claimed and flamed the shit out of those who claimed otherwise. It's hilarious to read their old posts.
I never would have seen this coming and I'm very disappointed that A-Rod has juiced in the past. Yes I used to vehemently believe that he did not juice. So what? Do you have a point you're trying to make or are you just being a typical condescending angst-ridden RS fan?
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9766624 - 02/09/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you have a point or are you just being a typical condescending angst-ridden RS fan? 
Guilty as charged.
It IS seriously funny to read your old posts though and I'm honestly just rubbing your faces in it because you guys were SO sure of yourselves. Heck and I are just having a laugh at your expense.
In all seriousness, I'd bet most of the great players of our generation had a little bit of "help." I already put it out there that David Ortiz is a likely candidate but how fucked up would it be if Curt Schilling were on that list, especially in light of all of his recent criticism on Bonds and A-rod.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Posts: 42,409
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Fair enough.
I wouldn't be surprised if David Ortiz is on the list. Schilling on the other hand would have to be an incredible idiot to say the things he did if his name is on that list.
edit: I just don't see why anybody would want to be exposed as being a cheat.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
Edited by matt (02/09/09 04:01 PM)
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Virus_with_Shoes
Pastor of Muppets



Registered: 01/25/07
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#9766689 - 02/09/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's exactly why it would be so fucked up and it'd make a hell of a plot twist in this saga that's for sure. In all likelihood he probably didn't use PEDs, he just has balls of steel and pitches like a man possessed in high pressure situations.
If it ever came out that Nolan Ryan used the roids that would seriously bum me out though. That dude was my freakin idol as a kid.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9766871 - 02/09/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I'd rather see Clemens' name not on the list so the rat McNamee can get cornholed. No matter what the truth about Clemens is the truth about McNamee is that he is a rat. I don't think much of rats.
Wasn't he facing federal charges?
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9766874 - 02/09/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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And forced to take an oath where he swore to tell the truth?
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Quote:
Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:
Do you have a point or are you just being a typical condescending angst-ridden RS fan? 
Guilty as charged.
It IS seriously funny to read your old posts though and I'm honestly just rubbing your faces in it because you guys were SO sure of yourselves. Heck and I are just having a laugh at your expense.
In all seriousness, I'd bet most of the great players of our generation had a little bit of "help." I already put it out there that David Ortiz is a likely candidate but how fucked up would it be if Curt Schilling were on that list, especially in light of all of his recent criticism on Bonds and A-rod.
My estimation that 60%-70% of MLB'ers used gear stands. If you count substances that for seasoned weight training males worthless except for their power to heal injuries, I feel VERY confident about that number.
But this isn't just MLB. It everywhere, even pro golf.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9766989 - 02/09/09 04:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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The interview is in two parts on ESPN's front page. He sure looks and sounds like he's sorry. I'm tired of this blame-shifting bullshit, claiming he doesn't know what he took. That's bullshit, I will never buy that from any player. At least Bonds tried to mask it by saying he didn't even know he took any at all, whereas Rodriguez is saying he knew he took them, he just didn't know what. Just own up man, it's not gonna make you look any worse.
-------------------- !
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Madtowntripper
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9767000 - 02/09/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I listened to the interview this afternoon, they had it on ESPN radio a half-hour after it was completed.
The same thing that angers Jewunit is my problem. Why come halfway? I don't believe for a second he didn't know what it was, why not just go all the way?
Strange.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9767021 - 02/09/09 04:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
It feels good coming out and being completely honest
Bullshit.
I really do believe most of the rest of this. Maybe he's a good actor, but I honestly believe he regrets his actions, I honestly believe he's clean (he's passed tests since then, correct?), and I still think he's disgustingly good, regardless of steroids.
-------------------- !
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
#9767261 - 02/09/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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He's passed numerous tests. He also said he didn't know he failed that test until Roberts tried to sand bag him in the gym the other day.
I don't know what McNamee faced. If you are a drug dealer and you inform on your customers to get a more lenient sentence what are you?
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9767304 - 02/09/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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If I were facing federal perjury charges, I would fess up. Of course. And I would expect anyone else who was involved with me in this type of dirty dealing to out me too.
These guys were all in it together. The thing is, the rich players have the blind public support and the ability to hire Johnny Cochran "If the glove doesn't fit" crooked lawyers, and the "drug dealers" don't.
This isn't the mafia.
And anyone who is stupid enough to lie to a judge doesn't know much about what judges do to those who lie to them.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
Edited by whattheheck (02/09/09 05:49 PM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#9767387 - 02/09/09 06:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said: If I were facing federal perjury charges, I would fess up. Of course. And I would expect anyone else who was involved with me in this type of dirty dealing to out me too.
These guys were all in it together. The thing is, the rich players have the blind public support and the ability to hire Johnny Cochran "If the glove doesn't fit" crooked lawyers, and the "drug dealers" don't.
This isn't the mafia.
And anyone who is stupid enough to lie to a judge doesn't know much about what judges do to those who lie to them.
I don't think that applied to McNamee. He got busted dealing. He didn't have to give anybody up. If you do that shit with real drugs you get shot. He's a weasel.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#9767415 - 02/09/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh for sure. I thought his name got brought into the whole thing and he was forced to testify.
And yeah man, my mom was a drug dealer, mostly glass and coke back in the 70's and 80's, heavy involvement with some serious California bikers, and my dad did 3 stretches for drugs, so I'm pretty well versed on the drug culture.
I could have swore he was compelled to testify. And anybody who says that they wouldn't give up somebody when they're looking at taking the fall, well.....
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Quote:
Seriously though, I wonder who else is on that list. As much as I love the Red Sox I'd have to admit there are a few players that might be on that. The whole team got a pass during the Mitchell Report due to a blatant conflict of interest and I'd be willing to be that at least one or two of them have done it at one point. My money would have to be on David Ortiz unfortunately. 
I hate being right.
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whattheheck
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I'm somewhat surprised at Manny being on that list. His connections must have been different, but considering the man, that's not surprising. He probably went into Gold's Boston in full uniform and just started offering cash for gear.
What's the deal with this list? Are we going to get a name every few months? What's going on here?
They need to release the WHOLE thing. I'll say this, if you don't go to the HOF if you did gear is the standard, then we're going to induct about 3 guys in the next 20 years.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10769045 - 07/30/09 02:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said:
What's the deal with this list? Are we going to get a name every few months? What's going on here?
They need to release the WHOLE thing. I'll say this, if you don't go to the HOF if you did gear is the standard, then we're going to induct about 3 guys in the next 20 years.
No they don't. They need to investigate the leakers and leakees and arrest them and disbar any lawyers involved. I fail to understand why your desire to know something about an entertainment supercedes the employment contract of a thousand players in a billion + dollar industry and the sanctity of court orders to seal information. Is there some compelling national security issue that you know about to justify this or just overwhelming narcissism?
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10769211 - 07/30/09 03:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
or just overwhelming narcissism?
Since when have you had a problem with overwhelming narcissism, zap?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Always. It disgusts me. Although I am well aware that I am smarter, funnier and better looking than any other man ever I still don't think that my wishes supercede anyone else's. I don't think the world revolves around me. Although it should. For its own good.
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Liz
Owl Lady




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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10769280 - 07/30/09 03:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think it's bullshit that they keep leaking names. Like you said Zappa, they need to find the leaks, and plug them. Baseball banned this shit in 04, and there's no need for shit from 03 to keep rearing its ugly head. That being said, I'm enormously disappointed with the news about Ortiz. Not shocked....but saddened. It pissed me off that he has been so outspoken about beinganti-steroids and saying that 1st time offenders should be suspended for a full year and shit....and now his name is tossed out there? Fuck.
-------------------- Remember, remember the fifth of November The gunpowder treason and plot. I see no reason why gunpowder treason Should ever be forgot.
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Virus_with_Shoes
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10769605 - 07/30/09 04:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Always. It disgusts me. Although I am well aware that I am smarter, funnier and better looking than any other man ever I still don't think that my wishes supercede anyone else's. I don't think the world revolves around me. Although it should. For its own good.
You goofy son of a bitch.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
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Well, my belief, which is just as valid as anyone Else's, is that we as a public have been duped, worked, and lied too by a bunch of perverts who SHOULD be exposed as an example to other wanna be cheats. I also find great joy in the pain this causes the commissionaires office and the players union, who get rich off of selling us an overpriced product while lying to and deceiving us about the facts. WE make THEM, and we have a right to know.
As far as the leakers go, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10769732 - 07/30/09 04:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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No you do not have that right to know. I can declare a great many rights for myself, such as a right to have a Mighty Taco in my neighborhood, but that does not make it so.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10769759 - 07/30/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would like a White Castle in my neighborhood so I didn't have to drive like fifty miles.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10769768 - 07/30/09 04:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Demand your rights! Fight the power!
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10769838 - 07/30/09 04:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll write my Congressman.
Oh wait, he's a dirty fucking Republican who gets so much vitriolic hate mail from me that I'm likely on some kind of list that has my missives sent straight to a garbage bin in the bowels of his office.
This is the Politics Forum, right?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10770026 - 07/30/09 05:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No you do not have that right to know. I can declare a great many rights for myself, such as a right to have a Mighty Taco in my neighborhood, but that does not make it so.
I never said I had a right to know. What I have a right to do is vote with my wallet and to influence those around me to do the same. MLB needs to release the names and come clean in a joint effort with the players union and the commissioners office.
They're playing us for fools, and while I was obviously one of the 15 people who KNEW in 1998 (and before) that players were geared and it wasn't EAS products that were helping them to hit the long ball that "chicks dig", I really feel for people who bought in lock stock and barrel.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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whattheheck
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10770041 - 07/30/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I remember all the people coming into GNC thinking that Myoplex and Phosphogen were what made little Brady Anderson into this....
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10770410 - 07/30/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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MLB can't release the names.
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10770424 - 07/30/09 07:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: I would like a White Castle in my neighborhood so I didn't have to drive like fifty miles.
I've never had White Castle. Seems like a bad life decision.
Coming from a fat kid I think that says a lot.
-------------------- !
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10770431 - 07/30/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like what Jeter had to say.
Quote:
Yankees reaction from U.S. Cellular Field to The New York Times report that Red Sox stars David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003:
JOHNNY DAMON
General reaction to today's news: It's another thing that keeps popping up with baseball. That's the problem with it all being withheld, because it seems like every couple of weeks or so we're finding out another player. I had no idea, but I guess he's on that list. Who knows if they're going to keep releasing more and more names? It's definitely not good for baseball.
Should the entire list be released?: It probably should come out. We were hoping we were done with it ... there's constant questions that [reporters] have to ask and some of us will answer. I don't want to have meetings all the time at the locker to talk about this. I want to talk about this year and moving forward and seeing how good our team this year can be. That's what I want to talk about. Unfortunately, this is another big story and David is involved with winning two championships in a town that didn't have a championship for a long time.
Is the 2004 World Series title tainted?: I think if there's a lot more guys ... I won't know that until more and more names come out. The '04 year was special. I know we could not have won without a bunch of the players that we had there. David and Manny were great, but I had probably the best year of my career hitting in the clutch. We had Derek Lowe pitch well, Pedro pitch well, added Schilling. I would have to see if there's more names and then I'd be able to comment on that.
MARK TEIXEIRA
General reaction to today's news: That list, names are going to keep coming out. I agree with everyone else who says just put it all out. It's ridiculous. Just let all the games go out and let everyone deal with it at the same time. Every two months things come out, it's not good for the game. It happened in 2003. Let it all come out, let everyone talk about it for one or two days and then we can move on.
On playing PED-free: I don't pass judgment on anybody. What happened with people in the past or what happens in the future, that's their prerogative. But as a guy who has done things the right way their entire career, I don't want any kid looking at me saying, 'Whoa, did you do something? Were you on a list?' I look at my generation and players like myself, Matt Holliday, Chase Utley. These guys are doing it from 2003 on and doing it the right way. I want kids to look at us and say these guys are great players without using that stuff.
DEREK JETER
General reaction to today's news: Too bad for everyone. Once again, we're sitting here talking about it again. ... You wish that you guys were here asking questions about Buerhle throwing all those innings and we've got to face him, or pennant races, or the trade deadline. Instead, we're talking about this again.
On releasing other names: I'm pretty sure someone will come up with something else. I'll stick to what I said before. Not everyone was doing it. You're talking about 100 people. There's a lot more than 100 people playing baseball. It's unfortunate that we have to sit here and talk about another name a couple of months later. I wish that wasn't the case but unfortunately it's the situation.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ
He's my friend and I care for David.
I have nothing else to say about it.
JOE GIRARDI
It's like ripping a Band-Aid off slowly. It's unfortunate, because we're trying to get this era beyond us and repair the game. The names keep coming out. It just seems to make it more difficult and last longer. It just saddens me that we go through this. I love this game and I love what players have done and what players have been able to accomplish doing it the right way. This era saddens me.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#10770533 - 07/30/09 07:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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And that's what's going to keep happening, names slowly bleeding out over a long long time, continually tearing the game up, front page news everywhere, more bad feelings.
Good point on MLB not being able to release the names. Well then, I wish one of these leakers would nut up and just let every name out.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10770639 - 07/30/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why? so you can assuage your idle curiosity at the expense of the players privacy rights? How about we release everybody's medical records?
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
#10770728 - 07/30/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sure. As soon as I agree to make a lot of money in part based of the public's perception of me, have at. Seems fair to me.
Look, the lying cheaters got caught. They were outed by essentially lying cheaters. Pretty appropriate if you ask me. That's America. Bankers, politicians, union leaders, corporate executives, athletes, are ANY of us surprised when these guys lie and scam and burn us for their gain anymore? I'm not. And I want them ALL to pay. This culture of corruption deserves what it has coming. Let the chickens come home to roost. And that includes me too. I'm comfortable reaping what I have sown. As any REAL man should be non?
Let the show continue.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
#10771239 - 07/30/09 09:55 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
whattheheck said: Sure. As soon as I agree to make a lot of money in part based of the public's perception of me, have at. Seems fair to me.
Look, the lying cheaters got caught. They were outed by essentially lying cheaters. Pretty appropriate if you ask me. That's America. Bankers, politicians, union leaders, corporate executives, athletes, are ANY of us surprised when these guys lie and scam and burn us for their gain anymore? I'm not. And I want them ALL to pay. This culture of corruption deserves what it has coming. Let the chickens come home to roost. And that includes me too. I'm comfortable reaping what I have sown. As any REAL man should be non?
Let the show continue. 
Further corruption (what you are advocating) is not going to fix the current corruption you speak of.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#10771633 - 07/30/09 11:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm just advocating a better show. I am beyond believing that power does anything but corrupt, especially power that translates into millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
This world is a carnival slash zoo, and we're all paying visitors and spectacles at the same time. Not my idea of utopia, be it is what it is.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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