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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #9754704 - 02/07/09 12:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

matt said:
I have only one question. Why was nothing said about this in 2003?



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-01-12-steroid-policy_x.htm
Quote:

Evolution of the steroid policy

2002

• Before 2002, Major League Baseball had no official policy on steroid use among players. As part of a collective bargaining agreement, players and owners agree to hold survey testing in 2003. If more than 5% of results from the anonymous tests are positive, formal testing and penalties will be put into place the next year.

2003

• Baseball announces after the season that 5% to 7% of test results were positive, triggering the new policy in 2004.

2004

• Each player is tested once a year in season. A first positive test results in treatment, followed by a 15-day suspension for a second positive and up to a year suspension for a fifth positive. The result is no player is suspended for steroid use.

2005

• Baseball agrees to a new policy. Banned substances include steroids, steroid precursors, designer steroids, masking agents and diuretics. There will be one unannounced mandatory test of each player during the season. In addition, there will be testing of randomly selected players, with no maximum number. And there will be random testing during the offseason. The penalties for a positive result are, first positive, 10 days; second, 30 days; third, 60 days; fourth, one year, and all without pay.



In 2003 the testing was done as part of a survey solely to determine the extent of use.  The union agreed only to anonymous testing for this purpose.  No names were attached to any samples.  But there was a major cock up in which somebody put numbers on the samples and then kept a list cross referencing the names with the numbers.  This was directly in violation of the agreement with the union.  Anonymity had been preserved for a few years until Nowitzki and his gang got a subpoena for those samples and the list in the course of his BALCO investigation.  However, that subpoena was supposed to be restricted to only certain players:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9902E6DC1E3FF935A35750C0A9629C8B63
Quote:

For their latest trick, the union lawyers have succeeded in persuading the United States attorney's office in San Francisco to winnow its request for results of baseball's steroids tests last year from all 1,438 players to fewer than 15, a lawyer who has seen the second subpoena said yesterday.

The new subpoena resulted from talks between the United States attorney's office in San Francisco and lawyers for the players union.

But the union may still fight the subpoena on the ground that it attempts to circumvent the players' Fourth Amendment (privacy) rights, no matter how few players are involved.

The lawyer who talked about the subpoena would not identify the players named in the new subpoena but confirmed names when they were mentioned to him: Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, his brother Jeremy, Gary Sheffield, Benito Santiago, Armando Rios, Marvin Benard, Bobby Estalella and Randy Velarde.

The lawyer said the subpoena also named fewer than another handful of players, making the new list fewer than 15.

All of the players are believed to have testified under grants of immunity before the grand jury in its investigation of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, or Balco, of Burlingame, Calif.

All of the players except Sheffield play for or have played for the Giants or the Oakland Athletics.



Rodriguez didn't testify and has never played for either San Fran or Oakland.  So MY question is, since the 2003 tests were anonymous and Rodriguez was not included in the subpoena to break the code numbers, where is this story coming from?
Quote:




Last week, excerpts surfaced from Joe Torre's book "The Yankee Years," in which it is revealed Rodriguez was referred to as "A-Fraud" in the clubhouse during the 2004 season.







That's just gratuitous assholery throwing that in there.  This has been explained numerous times as a joke for the past boring week.  These reporters either know that or are incompetent.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9754746 - 02/07/09 12:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

A disturbing sentence from the SI report:
Quote:

The list of the 104 players whose urine samples tested positive is under seal in California. However, two sources familiar with the evidence that the government has gathered in its investigation of steroid use in baseball and two other sources with knowledge of the testing results have told Sports Illustrated that Rodriguez is one of the 104 players identified as having tested positive, in his case for testosterone and an anabolic steroid known by the brand name Primobolan. All four sources spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the evidence.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html#?eref=T1
Their names are not being withheld because the evidence is sensitive.  Their names are being withheld because they broke the law.  The same thing happened to Giambi.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/12/AR2007071201888.html
Quote:

Thursday, July 12, 2007; 7:54 PM

SAN FRANCISCO -- An attorney who admitted leaking the confidential grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and other athletes was sentenced Thursday to two and a half years in prison, by far the harshest penalty to result from the government's steroids investigation.

Troy Ellerman, 44, pleaded guilty in February to allowing a San Francisco Chronicle reporter to view transcripts of testimony by Bonds, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield and other athletes embroiled in the probe. He initially blamed federal investigators for leaking the testimony.



Violating the sanctity of secret testimony is far more serious than using steroids to cheat at a game.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9754969 - 02/07/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

All things considered it is a far greater crime to subvert the justice system than to cheat at a game.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9756349 - 02/07/09 06:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Actually Felt was quite careful not to leak anything at all.  He just confirmed things Woodward and Bernstein got elsewhere.  Nobody complained then because nobody knew.  Once we found out the deal more than a few people thought Felt should have been prosecuted. 

If this moron thinks baseball players cheating is remotely important on the scale of a Presidential cover-up he needs to be severely beaten with a clue bat and get a brain transplant from a baboon.  What is far more important is the sanctity of the justice system.  Unless, of course, you are a professional rumor monger who is more than a little worried about being compelled to reveal your sources.  I believe the reporter Troy Ellerman revealed his information to spent some time in the slammer before Ellerman fessed up.  That kind of thing might make Mr Bryant's underwear a little heavy.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9760186 - 02/08/09 12:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
I hear where you're coming from Zap, but it's all a mess, so personally, I'm just enjoying the rodeo.

Theses guys, who make a ton of money by being held up as our icons, lying their arses off when anybody with any experience with PED's can see that they are lying, deserve to be outed. I am NOT saying that the way that it went is correct, but I'm glad the truth is coming out.

And speaking of a load in their pants, I wonder how the other 103 players on that list feel?




Betrayed.  Or, rather, about to be.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9760652 - 02/08/09 02:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I believe in deals.  A deal is a deal is a deal.  I also believe in court orders, like the one that sealed this information.  I also believe a man has the right to face his accuser.  The people who revealed this information are either liars or criminals, maybe both.  Remember the Bonds sample from that year that tested negative?  Well after they seized it they retested it and it was positive.  That is just one test we know for a fact was wrong.  Can you guarantee that was the only one?  The feds had Bonds' sample retested because they didn't think that lab was competent.  These are just some of the many things wrong with this.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9761247 - 02/08/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Whatever Rodriguez was doing did not appear to alter his appearance as much as the cases of Sosa, McGwire and Bonds.  Nor did he have a sudden leap in production ala Palmiero and those 3.

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't.  The whole ongoing process strikes me as pretty horrendous, though, and I would like to see whoever made these accusations have to stand up and face the music for their law breaking.  Here is my suggested A-Rod press release:

Quote:

Mr Rodriguez has no intention of responding to these scurrilous rumors spread by nameless and faceless cowards.  He has no knowledge of the results of any of these tests but notes that we are well aware of at least one false result from this laboratory as a result of the Bonds case.  Further, at the very least, these cowards have broken US law, either by slander or by violating a court order.




Like I said, maybe he did, maybe he didn't but I think he should take a hard line and just not respond so that this kind of heinous behavior might one day stop.  Clemens at least had a named accuser to confront.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9761434 - 02/08/09 05:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
I see where you're coming from with that, due process is important. And your press release brings up a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and that is do players who flunked know they flunked? Did the commish know?





I don't think they could have.  Nobody ever put the names together with the numbers until the feds got there.  Further, the feds subpoena was supposed to be restricted to only those players involved with BALCO.  Rodriguez had nothing to do with that.  Here's another aspect.  These tests were supposed to be for one purpose only, which was to take a survey of the general prevalence of steroid use and as such the accuracy of any one test was unimportant.  But when it becomes an issue of individual test results the accuracy is of paramount importance.  Just a hideous stench arising from this.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9764760 - 02/09/09 08:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
I agree with Schilling 100% here. I was going to say the same thing, the other names MUST come out.

"I'd be all for the 104 positives being named, and the game moving on if that is at all possible," former Boston ace Curt Schilling wrote on his blog Sunday.
"In my opinion, if you don't do that, then the other 600-700 players are going to be guilty by association, forever," he wrote. "It appears that not only was it 104, but three of the greatest of our, or any, generation appear to be on top of this list."
:congrats:




Schilling is an idiot.  I didn't hear him saying this in 2004 when the results were known (i.e. that over 100 players were positive).  Then again, maybe he did.  But, there is no more taint on the entire group of players now than there was then.
 
There was an anonymity agreement with the union that represented Schilling to his great benefit.  They determined that it was not in the players best interest to have publicized testing in 2003, just survey testing.  Over 5% tested positive, triggering more testing.  Further, there was a court order putting all of that information under seal.  The people who revealed this information have committed a crime and so far there is one victim.  Now the retired cunt wants 103 more victims.  One wrong does not justify 103 other wrongs.

There are quite a few of the same assholes demanding this who would scream bloody fucking murder if they were forced to undergo this scrutiny.  There is no argument that these were the work rules.  They were specifically NOT the work rules.  How about we test everybody for everything ever?  Think about it this way.  What happens to medical confidentiality under that rationale?  We'll promise to keep your results confidential unless you get rich and famous and there is something wrong.  I'm going to repeat myself.  Schilling is an idiot with a small dysfunctional brain who doesn't give a fuck about anybody except....Cunt Schilling.  The players' union had a deal.  That is the union of all the players, not just clean players.  How come Curt the cunt, if he was so concerned, didn't name teammates, while he was playing, who he thought was juicing.  He's been on enough teams, I bet he thought dozens were juicing.  Do you want to guess why he didn't.  It's because it wouldn't have been good for Cunt, that's why.  Now he thinks it is.  Do you know what group of players has the highest prevalence of juicing?  Pitchers.  Fuck Cunt Schilling where he breathes.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9764765 - 02/09/09 08:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:

Do you think he did it?




Don't really care.  It is far less important than the real crimes committed here.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9764978 - 02/09/09 09:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Because they were private medical records.  Absent a work rule requiring named testing agreed upon between the union and the owners they remain private medical records.  Even in the subsequent agreement, which was enacted after 5% tested positive in 2003, the first positive test was to be held confidential with increased testing.  The results would only be made public after a second failed test.  Rodriguez was given no opportunity to challenge the results, the sample right now has passed through so many hands that provenance can't be assured, and the leakers are criminals.  There is a much higher weasel factor here and it is held by the leakers, who should be revealed as the common criminals they are and prosecuted like Troy Ellerman.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9765106 - 02/09/09 10:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

No.  They had a subpoena for Bonds and several other BALCO guys.  NOT for anybody else, including Rodriguez.  Also, as I linked earlier, Troy Ellerman, the asshole who leaked about Giambi's GJ testimony, was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9765194 - 02/09/09 10:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yep, if he did take them he is a cheating cocksucker who has cheapened my favorite game.  I have no personal favor for Rodriguez.  I think he's a fucking moron.  He has also been unfairly victimized by weasels, a status Giambi can claim but not Bonds. 

Now then, let's return to what is important, which is money grubbing whores who will violate the justice system for fame and fortune, i.e. Selena Roberts et al.  In the Giambi/ Ellerman case the reporters were held in contempt of court and faced 18 months pending appeal before Ellerman confessed.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/14/BAGPRO4RVR3.DTL
Quote:

The subpoenas, received last May, demanded that the reporters identify the source or sources of the grand jury testimony, and that The Chronicle turn over any documents that might reveal the source.

When Fainaru-Wada and Williams refused to testify, White held them in contempt last September, saying a 1972 U.S. Supreme Court ruling had established that journalists have no special privilege to withhold evidence from a grand jury.

The judge ordered the reporters imprisoned for up to 18 months, unless they agreed to testify earlier, and also fined The Chronicle $1,000 a day for defying its subpoena.

The penalties have been suspended while the reporters and the newspaper appeal to the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which had scheduled a hearing for March 7.

Their lawyers have argued that a 1996 Supreme Court ruling opened the door for federal judges to recognize a journalist's right to protect confidential sources when the value of the reporting to the public outweighed any harm caused by the leak.




I want Selena Roberts (I have hated her since she wrote for the Times, and endlessly aggrieved black woman) dragged before a court to reveal her weasels.  Don't you?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
    #9765390 - 02/09/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Honestly I think the rest of the names should be released.
Why should A-Rod be thrown under the bus but no one else?
Release all the names and put the fuck who leaked it in jail for leaking all 104, not just Rodriguez.




No no no no.  Nobody should have been thrown under the bus.  Fucking the other 103 does not unfuck Rodriguez.  The only people who should get to decide whose name gets released should be those 103 other people.  If they want to stand up and say "I am Spartacus" they can.  In fact, if the rest of the players had any balls they should all stand up and say "I am Spartacus" and totally stuff it up SI's and Selena the Cunt's ass.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
    #9765572 - 02/09/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

It matters because it is wrong.  It is a corruption of the justice system.  Whoever leaks this info should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile......Rodriguez is copping to this as we speak.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #9765855 - 02/09/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

matt said:
Now all speculation is dead and it's time to move forward and go after the motherfuckers who leaked his name. They deserve to go to prison.




100% absolutely and with extreme prejudice.  He has hundreds of millions of dollars and I hope he spends a few thousand on investigators to find this out.  He doesn't need to be a passive victim, he has the wherewithall to fuck these people unto the ends of the earth.  Expose THEM.  See how they like it.  There is no court order protecting these criminals.  Maybe that will stop this kind of shit.  Waterboarding the cunt Selena Roberts would be an excellent start.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9766558 - 02/09/09 03:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'd rather see Clemens' name not on the list so the rat McNamee can get cornholed.  No matter what the truth about Clemens is the truth about McNamee is that he is a rat.  I don't think much of rats.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: jewunit]
    #9767261 - 02/09/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

He's passed numerous tests.  He also said he didn't know he failed that test until Roberts tried to sand bag him in the gym the other day. 

I don't know what McNamee faced.  If you are a drug dealer and you inform on your customers to get a more lenient sentence what are you?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #9767387 - 02/09/09 06:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
If I were facing federal perjury charges, I would fess up. Of course. And I would expect anyone else who was involved with me in this type of dirty dealing to out me too.

These guys were all in it together. The thing is, the rich players have the blind public support and the ability to hire Johnny Cochran "If the glove doesn't fit" crooked lawyers, and the "drug dealers" don't.

This isn't the mafia.

And anyone who is stupid enough to lie to a judge doesn't know much about what judges do to those who lie to them. :suicide:




I don't think that applied to McNamee.  He got busted dealing.  He didn't have to give anybody up.  If you do that shit with real drugs you get shot.  He's a weasel.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: A-Rod tested positive in '03 [Re: whattheheck]
    #10769045 - 07/30/09 02:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:


What's the deal with this list? Are we going to get a name every few months? What's going on here?

They need to release the WHOLE thing. I'll say this, if you don't go to the HOF if you did gear is the standard, then we're going to induct about 3 guys in the next 20 years.






No they don't.  They need to investigate the leakers and leakees and arrest them and disbar any lawyers involved.  I fail to understand why your desire to know something about an entertainment supercedes the employment contract of a thousand players in a billion + dollar industry and the sanctity of court orders to seal information.  Is there some compelling national security issue that you know about to justify this or just overwhelming narcissism?


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