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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well?
    #9751650 - 02/06/09 06:50 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

I know grain spawn is not suggested for outdoor grow logs.  I got to start making my spawn now.  Usually I grow from oak sawdust, supplemented with gypsum and wheat bran (10% and 20% respectively).  I use a quart jar of colonized grain to inoculate my bags, which are filter patch bags by the way, and I usually fill near half way up cause I like big grow blocks.

Question then, what must I do different to make my sawdust spawn in these filter bags?  I assume skip the gypsum and wheat bran, and just use straight sawdust...

What about the grain used to inoculate the sawdust spawn bag?  Will the occasional rye grain mixed with my sawdust spawn be an issue?  I don't want to mess up my logs, I plan to do up to 50 - we have land in TN with oak and other trees as far as the eye can see.

I am pretty much following GGMM, and plan on using Stamets plunger tool and purchase some cheese wax as well to cover my holes. 

You can image the spawn will consist of like 1 quart rye with some 10 quarts of sawdust or so.... any experience doing this?  I don't wanna lose my 50+ logs to bugs and mold cause of the occasional rye grain!

And I know sawdust spawn can be made without the use of grain, but this is the way I have had very much success.  I fear trying to inoculate a quart of sawdust with an agar wedge... I just don't see it going well ya know.

thanks fellow growers.


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9751921 - 02/06/09 07:40 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

not intended to bump, but while I am thinking of it.  I also read in GGMM that logs should be inoculated within 2 months from being cut down.. is there too soon a time to inoculate?  I just as soon drill and sawdust plug the logs the same day as cutting down the trees - if I'm not too tired that is!

The fresh logs don't need time to dry a bit or anything do they?


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Offlinecombs
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Registered: 06/10/07
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9751939 - 02/06/09 07:43 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

say you have 10 quarts of grain spawn, you then in turn inoculate 20 bags of sawdust, you then inoculate 50 bags more of sawdust.......thats very little grain left in your spawn. i dont think it'll be a problem to begin with anyway though  : )


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All I wanna do is shake jars with you, stay up late at night and make spawn.


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Offlinedenger
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Registered: 09/19/08
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: combs]
    #9751980 - 02/06/09 07:49 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

No, grain spawn is not suitable for inoculating logs. It grows mold right away outdoors, which competes with your good mycelium.

If you are inoculatings logs with sawdust you dont have to drill the logs. Just cut some slits across the log 1/2 inch deep with your chainsaw every 4-6 inches all the way around, and pack some sawdust spawn into the cuts with a wooden wedge, then wrap it in kitchen wrap.

It is advisable to age logs at least couple of weeks, because fresh wood contains anti-fungal compounds. Ageing allows these compounds to degrade and for the wood cells to die and stop producing new ones.


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: denger]
    #9752062 - 02/06/09 08:03 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

okay, I'm straight on the aging then - I recall reading this somewhere but had forgot that fact, thanks for the tip.  I'll let them age a few weeks.

As for the grain, my question was about the occasional grain... it will be 10 parts sawdust and 1 part grain or so.  Are you saying that just the occasional grain will cause those problems - I'm not sure if you followed my rambling.


About the wedge:  what is the "wedge" and how does the sawdust stay in the slits?..  I really don't wanna fool with wrapping and unwrapping 50 logs with kitchen wrap.  I'd much rather just wax the holes.  Out of all the methods described in GGMM I am most appealed by the drilling and plugging method.  You make a good point Denger, but I'm unsure of the method you are describing.

Anyone have a good method for generating sawdust spawn without grain if grain really will lead to all the trouble?


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752087 - 02/06/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)
Log in to view attachment

see if I can post this pdf I found


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Offlinecombs
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752102 - 02/06/09 08:11 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

what i was saying is the second round of bags(if you go that far) could be inoculated with sawdust spawn. the amount of grain left would be very very minimal by this point. ..........


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All I wanna do is shake jars with you, stay up late at night and make spawn.


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Offlinedenger
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752110 - 02/06/09 08:12 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Try to keep grain down to 1 part in 50, you really do not need more then that. Otherwise you are inviting mold. Supplementing sawdust with bran is ok, because bran is quickly processed by the mycelium once the mix colonises. Grains, however, tend to stay whole and have plenty of starch inside even after full colonisation.

If you are doing 50 logs, then perhaps you can save some time by not drilling them. What I meant is to use any thin piece of wood as a tool to pack the sawdust into the slits, tightly. Once its packed it stays there, but wrap helps to contain it too, and to contain moisture. You can unwrap logs after a couple of months once the mycelium takes hold.


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: denger]
    #9752185 - 02/06/09 08:28 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

that sounds like a pretty solid method.  I was thinking about the wedge method like stamets describes in GGMM.  Cuting out a triangle wedge and then trying to fasten it back in place with spawn in between- this sounds like garbage.

Your slits are just slits, not wedges cut out then.  Sounds pretty solid and easy to do.

Do any of you folks make sawdust spawn without grain as an inoculant?  Doesn't RogerRabbit post in this forum anymore?  I haven't heard much from him in this forum for a while.  You guys planning logs this spring?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752399 - 02/06/09 09:02 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

I'm here, just letting others handle the questions, since I've got a lot on my plate lately.  In fact, we'll have a new moderator in this forum after this weekend.  Announcement shortly.

Why not use dowel plugs to inoculate your logs?  There's far less of a wound, and you use grain spawn to inoculate the dowel plugs, but you only drive the hardwood dowels into your logs.  You can also fruit substrate blocks outdoors with grain spawn included, but you need to cage it somehow to keep the critters out.

A good spraying every day keeps the molds under control.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9752569 - 02/06/09 09:32 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

there he is!  How is the new land?  Had a feeling you were busy - hope you will still join us in discussion here - I don't hardly go in the "other" forum anymore.  I read a post awhile back about your new set up.  How much land do you have now?  Amazing place I can only imagine - adjacent to the national park right?  Is the land affordable out there?  Its foreclosure city here and I am trying to buy a sweet town house with a nice half acre.  We have some forested 100+ acres in middle TN in the family that I will be doing some projects on... but I don't live there yet.  I am 23 and have a 7-10 year goal to buy land in Washington.  I love and am from Colorado, but since getting into mycology I think about moving back there and just think "ain't no mushrooms growing there!"

anyways, I considered plugs of course, but I have unlimited supply of nice oak sawdust... and colonizing 50x50 plugs (2500) plugs would take up a shit load of space and work I imagine.  And I recall reading that sawdust inoculations colonize better than plugs, which can lead to fast colonization of the log.  But damn,  I do see the benefit of colonizing plugs with grain and not having my original issue.  There are just too many friggin choices here!  Back to the drawing boards.  Please discuss more though folks if you got anything.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752631 - 02/06/09 09:44 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

There's lots of mushrooms here.  Last fall was bad  because we had a long cold spell with no rain, and then the snow came. :frown:

I only have 20 acres, but it joins national forest on two sides, since I'm the last property on a long dirt road up a canyon.  With the exception of a single two lane highway leading to Canada, I have six million acres to play on without crossing any fences.  There's only 1500 people in our entire county, and not a single traffic signal.

Land is affordable, but you have to be either retired or find a way to live off the land.  I'm starting up a mushroom farm, and mrs rabbit is going gangbusters with bee hives.  We'll also put in about an acre of veg garden, so we should be OK.  There's no 'regular jobs' within 100 miles.  The best part after living in a condo in Seattle is no neighbors.  Here's our place.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisibleimnotthere

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 343
Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9752705 - 02/06/09 10:04 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

living the dream man.  Are you gonna grow on logs and patches, or more the indoor greenhouse route?  What species will you do?  Or are you gonna use the farm to recycle waste?  Getting loans? Grants!?  It all makes my head explode!

Yeah, fuck neighbors.  My potential new place has a nice privacy fence at least, which I am excited about.  But damn, you got some distance and space to work with for sure!  20 acres is a nice chuck as well!

Pretty amazing, congrats and best of luck. :rockon:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: sawdust spawn to grow logs.... but what about a few grains as well? [Re: imnotthere]
    #9752991 - 02/06/09 11:21 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

I have a neighbor with a large backhoe, and he's going to dig into the side of the mountain behind the house, where I'll build an underground concrete bunker type grow room this summer.  I've had all the indoor greenhouses I plan to deal with. For the first time in twenty years, I've decided it's time for my house to be for living in, and not a full time lab/grow area.

There's also a creek running through the property, lined with Alder, Aspens and Birch which are overgrown, so I'm going to take out 2/3 of them, and use the harvested hardwood for log growing along the banks where it's nice and humid and shady.

We just moved in last April, so it's going to be a work in progress for the next few years, probably the rest of our lives. We're also setting up a bunch of bee hives, since the mountains up here are covered with wild flowers all summer.  I don't want to ever move again. :love:
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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