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OfflineNeuron
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MDMA(ecstasy) and learning
    #9747836 - 02/06/09 04:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

My knowledge is limited on this topic, so I can only speak from experience and a bit of knowledge acquired.

I know that consumption of ecstasy causes a rush of excess free radicals in the body and brain. I also have had first hand experience of rolling before a school semester. I've noticed that when the semester begins, I have a hard time comprehending sentences that are not very basic. I often find myself rereading the same sentence 3 times and it not getting registered in my brain.

This either causes me to *need a lot of coffee and really focus 100% or get completely frustrated and give up. It has been about 6 months since I've rolled and I've steadily noticed my cognition skills go up. I feel much smarter than I did 5 months ago, and feel rather sharp in all my classes. My memory  is back again and I can memorize flash cards with ease, compared to before--it would take FOREVER to work through a deck.

I'm under the impression that my improved cognition, is due to increased and steady serotonin levels, combined with less free radicals roaming around, and confidence in myself(from getting straight As in my classes).

Normally, I would just enjoy this "new me" and move on. BTW, still smoke herb. However, it's been a challenging semester and I'd like to roll, but I don't want to jump back to square one and spend all my energy trying to understand college level sentences.

I don't know how/if ecstasy would effect my cognition if I were to take a neuroprotectant. Does anyone have information/advice?


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9747903 - 02/06/09 05:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The whole MDMA/neurotoxicity thing is a trippy, grayish, scary subject. I've never used MDMA too frequently at any point, but every time I use it I can't help but start feeling really "empty" the day after the day after the roll. I don't do too much at once either, usually just 100-150mg. I also try to consume 2g of vitamin C every 4 hours, hoping that it'll "absorb" the free radicals. Too little is known about how MDMA effects humans on the long term, and what amounts of what antioxidants would be needed to counteract any damage. It's also debatable weather the antioxidants would protect neurotransmitters for humans the same way they do for rats. It's hard to translate the amount of MDMA that has to be in the blood FOR the enzymes to be overwhelmed by the substance & create free radicals. I think it was 40mg/kg for rats injected, which would be a few grams to a human, but they metabolize it twice as fast so it would be less for humans... Nothing is actually KNOWN. As far as I'm concerned, MDMA is an unsafe drug to use for the time being. I'LL still do it as it's pros have outweight it's cons for ME so far. I see some people really go nuts from frequently using it sometimes, though, and I can see why. Teeteeeertoottarrrr


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InvisibleTakemeaway
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: CMACD]
    #9748041 - 02/06/09 07:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

smoke lots of weed when u roll and when you come down, ive heard thc has neuroprotective properties lol :thumbup:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9748123 - 02/06/09 08:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Antioxidants, antioxidants, antioxidants.

Space your MDMA trips out with at least a month in between.  I'd prefer to go three months in between just for concerns about neurotoxicity, frankly.  You might also want to try Piracetam; the stuff works wonders.  :thumbup:


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9749408 - 02/06/09 02:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In August(last time I did it), I waited 3 months before rolling again. I  rolled, took vitamin C and 5HTP for a week afterwards, but still experienced serious cognitive malfunction(extremely poor memory, poor comprehension for what would normally be considered simple, so forth). It has taken roughly 4-5 months to completely recover from the cognitive defects.

This makes me believe it is doing some SERIOUS damage. I was talking to a friend of mine who has done a ton of research on MDMA. He tried to put it in easy words at the time, and said "It takes a while for your brain to realize that your serotonin levels are normal and stable, sometimes it may take up to a year, but your memory WILL come back- it is just a matter of time". He was absolutely right, I am functioning better than ever and it has only been about 5 months.

Well what I know is this: 6-8 hours of a good time with little long lasting positive effects and a few months of poor cognitive function makes this drug's cons severely outweigh the pros for me.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9749415 - 02/06/09 02:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Did you take pure MDMA?


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9749791 - 02/06/09 03:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No no, I took an ecstasy pill(what seemed to be mainly pure). I have no reason to believe that amphetamine would affect cognition though. I know pills can be cut with just about anything, but it makes more sense that poor cognitive skills are directly related to a depletion of serotonin than consuming a bit of rat poison or whatever it's cut with.


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InvisibleHiei
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9749808 - 02/06/09 03:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I wish LSDreamer would chime in and enlighten us about MDMA negative effects and if there's anything that would help, like said vitamine C or THC. I know he knows. :lol:


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Edited by Hiei (02/06/09 03:42 PM)


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OfflineRussianScholar
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Hiei]
    #9749840 - 02/06/09 03:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes this happened to me too. Last time i rolled was in the summer, and the after effects is like slight retardation or something. I would have trouble making proper sentences when i talk to people, even the simplest ones. I would just have a mind blank and not know what to say.


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"The crisis is a crisis in consciousness. A crisis that cannot anymore accept the old norms, the old patterns, the ancient traditions, and considering what the world is now with all the misery, conflict, destructive brutality, aggression, and so on, man is still as he was, is still brutal, violent, aggressive, acquisitive, competitive, and he has built a society along these lines."


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InvisibleHiei
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: RussianScholar]
    #9749849 - 02/06/09 03:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Sucks... that is killing my desire to buy some.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9750118 - 02/06/09 04:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
No no, I took an ecstasy pill(what seemed to be mainly pure). I have no reason to believe that amphetamine would affect cognition though. I know pills can be cut with just about anything, but it makes more sense that poor cognitive skills are directly related to a depletion of serotonin than consuming a bit of rat poison or whatever it's cut with.




Methamphetamine as a common additive is known to be fairly neurotoxic; I would definitely blame at least some of the blow to your cognitive system on the meth rather than the MDMA.  AFAIK studies have detected no detrimental brain changes with infrequent, low dose use of pure MDMA; if you want specific positive examples just look at the Shulgins.


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Offlinefltdriver82
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9750333 - 02/06/09 05:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ice cream scoops, man, Ice cream scoops. Ever seen an MRI of a candy kid. Not pretty.
I stopped rolling a while ago because of the effects it was having on my ability to think/comprehend and I was starting to feel more and more depressed.
With that said:
Would I ever discourage anyone from taking MDMA?
No
Would I still encourage people to try it?
Yes
Would I make sure that they knew the ramifications of putting a substance like that into their body.
Definitely
Used sparingly (in pure form) MDMA can be a truly life changing drug. When used excessively and/or in "dirty" forms it can truly be the equivalent of taking a melon baller and removing scoops of your brain. With moderate use the brain has time to recover and can begin to repair some of the damage caused by the "flooding", this can be attributed to the lack of concentration and inability to comprehend for a week or so after use. Your brain is shutting down non-essential function in order to conserve it's resources for the purpose of repairs. In a way the groggy feeling, like you just don't want to move or make any real effort for a while, can be a good sign. When taken again before your body has a chance to recover is where the major problems start setting in, also prolonged use (even in moderation) will inevitably have a permanent impact on not only your cognitive brain functions, but also your motor and mood control centers.
I am not a doctor and am not stating the above as medical fact. This is from 10+ years of observing, reading articles, and studying as much as possible the effects the drugs I was putting into my body were having on myself and those around me.


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9750362 - 02/06/09 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Neuron said:
No no, I took an ecstasy pill(what seemed to be mainly pure). I have no reason to believe that amphetamine would affect cognition though. I know pills can be cut with just about anything, but it makes more sense that poor cognitive skills are directly related to a depletion of serotonin than consuming a bit of rat poison or whatever it's cut with.




Methamphetamine as a common additive is known to be fairly neurotoxic; I would definitely blame at least some of the blow to your cognitive system on the meth rather than the MDMA.  AFAIK studies have detected no detrimental brain changes with infrequent, low dose use of pure MDMA; if you want specific positive examples just look at the Shulgins.




Who says there was meth in that pill?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: wildchild68]
    #9750378 - 02/06/09 05:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wildchild68 said:
Who says there was meth in that pill?




It's a fairly common additive.  I'm not sure what other substances would be as likely to produce such effects.  :shrug:


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9750386 - 02/06/09 05:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't see any reason why it couldn't have just been MDMA.:shrug:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: wildchild68]
    #9750393 - 02/06/09 05:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That's true, actually.  High doses of MDMA could very well damage the serotonergic system.


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Offlineholycow
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: deCypher]
    #9751385 - 02/06/09 07:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hi there,

i experienced the same problem many moons ago as well. i have not had a roll since.

i too think that the cons far outweigh the pros of this substance. but damn. one good roll deserves another, no?


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: holycow]
    #9751423 - 02/06/09 08:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, it's one hell of an escape. But 6 hours of heaven doesn't really balance out 3 months of feeling slow, self-persecution, weakened self-esteem, weakened confidence, and a weaker immune system.

These are all the negative effects I get.


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Offlineholycow
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: Neuron]
    #9751464 - 02/06/09 08:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i remember thinking how i didn't know which was worse: not having to roll, or not having a brain.

i'm glad i chose my brain though :wink:


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: MDMA(ecstasy) and learning [Re: holycow]
    #9751519 - 02/06/09 08:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I hear you on that one. I've abused ecstasy in my past. Probably consumed 200-250 pills in my first three years of use. Now, that school is such a priority, and in essence the centerfold of my life--I wouldn't want to sacrifice it for a 6-hour high. Although it would be a great escape, my brain is my life, I have nothing else.


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