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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Casing a non-fully colonized substrate
    #9736443 - 02/04/09 07:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

so it has been over a couple weeks and one of my BRF jars have stopped colonizing. the temp for incubation has been anywhere between 83-87 farenheit and has completely stopped colonizing. so in my very impatient move, i just removed the 1/3 of colonized substrated, crumbled it up, and decided to case it, hoping that it may start colonizing the peat/verm casing.

anyone think that the myc might start colonizing again?

i also have another jar that hasnt shown any growth either, but the myc in that jar is the fuzzy type, unlike the jar i decided to case which has rizzy-strand myc.


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736456 - 02/04/09 07:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Your incubation temp is a bit high. You might want to drop it to 76-78

Jars that are not fully colonized will have a much harder time of success


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: djmako7]
    #9736464 - 02/04/09 07:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

76-78? i was always under the impression to incubate for good myc growth closest to 86 farenheit


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736637 - 02/04/09 07:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

anyone?


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736676 - 02/04/09 07:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
76-78? i was always under the impression to incubate for good myc growth closest to 86 farenheit




No, a jar will colonize on a shelf in a high place of the room.

At those temps your jars are more likely to get contaminated


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OfflineMushyMan420
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736697 - 02/04/09 07:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

mine colonize at high 70s to low 80s just fine. i have read on several forums 85 is prime but who knows..... and I'm probably way wrong and anyone correct me if you feel the need but if the cake has stopped growth for 2-3 weeks maybe it thinks its done, if you remove whats left of uncolonized sub, i don't see the difference in a 3/4 colonized pint jar and a full colonized half pint jar?? i don't know may just me the way i look at things.


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: djmako7]
    #9736702 - 02/04/09 07:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
*I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know. COLONIZATION
RR




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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: djmako7]
    #9736744 - 02/04/09 08:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

wow, thanks. that really helped a lot. ive been given the wrong info way back and always tried my best to keep the incubating temp nearest 86 at all times. some jars colonized great in the start, but soon would slow down to no growth at all.

seeing that theyve been sitting there in that heat for about a month now, would those jars still have a chance of colonizing well if i dropped the temp down to around 75-80?


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736754 - 02/04/09 08:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:


seeing that theyve been sitting there in that heat for about a month now, would those jars still have a chance of colonizing well if i dropped the temp down to around 75-80?




It could resume or it may have permanently stalled.


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OfflineSpin_Dr
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736767 - 02/04/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

During colonization the cakes will generate an internal temp 2 to 4 degrees on their own. That means that if you are incubating at 83 degrees externally your cakes can be as high as 87 degrees internally which will cause your cakes to stall.

I got this information from here by doing a search on incubation temps. I also found out from some (if not most) of those posts that you shouldn't even need an incubator unless you have unstable temps during the winter, such as temps below 70 degrees or so. I use my incubator during the winter because the space I use is around 65 to 70 degrees this time of year.


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: djmako7]
    #9736813 - 02/04/09 08:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Quote:

ibusturcherry said:


seeing that theyve been sitting there in that heat for about a month now, would those jars still have a chance of colonizing well if i dropped the temp down to around 75-80?




It could resume or it may have permanently stalled.




shit, permanently stalled? so if i stopped incubating and started to case the jars....would casing be useless since it might not even colonize the casing???


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9736917 - 02/04/09 08:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

at those temps your cake prolly stalled due to moisture loss.  but dont worry.  just get temps down to 72-78F and be patient. 

if it doesnt pick back up in a couple days you need to rehydrate it somehow.  if your doing jars try (in a glovebox being as steril as possible) injecting water into your cake through your inoculation holes. dont get your verm (filter) wet!  u still need a sterile needle to.  very little water at a time, let the cake soak it up, then add a lil more.  should need much to revive the myc. 10cc/ml should be plenty. imo.

but shouldnt have to do all that.  patience is key.

good luck.


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9736963 - 02/04/09 08:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

thanks. the jars dont seem to have lost moisture, theres a few droplets of water on the inside of the jar. also, all these ideas with syringes are kinda useless for me since i dont have any and dont know where to find syringes. which also makes me more sad cuz i wanted to try my hand at cloning and making LC if and when i do get fruits from these jars. =/


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Edited by ibusturcherry (02/04/09 08:41 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9737438 - 02/04/09 09:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

i was always under the impression to incubate for good myc growth closest to 86 farenheit




That figure was based on inaccurate information in a book written over 20 years ago, and it's been screwing up people's grows ever since.  Keep your colonization temps to 81F and below.  Growth of mycelium peaks between 75 and 81, and then begins to drop off above that.  Keeping your jars at 86 is probably why they stalled out.  Higher temps favor molds and thermophilic bacteria.
RR


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9737485 - 02/04/09 09:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

if i did a transfer of some of the myc from a jar thats about 65% colonized from the batch that was first incubated at 86 degrees, would the jar the piece was transferred to grow well if kept at temp around 80 degrees? or would the stalled properties of the myc still be in effect even in the new substrate?


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9737505 - 02/04/09 09:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

www.ralphstersspores.com, he is a shroomery vendor and sells Blanks(sterile syringes).  and when you place an order dont 4get to request the S.O.T.M.(strain of the month) ITS A FREEBIE! 

you can use your syringe that u had to inoculate your jars.  just boil it 15 mins, suck up some boiling water and squirt it out in your sink a couple of times and fill back up w/more water = steril syringe.


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9737542 - 02/04/09 09:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

never had a syringe to begin with, started with prints.

this vendor, do they also have restrictions on where they ship their syringes just like with their spores? i mean, if they are blank syringes, then there should be no restrictions to some states am i right?


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OfflineVermonster420
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9737669 - 02/04/09 10:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
www.ralphstersspores.com, he is a shroomery vendor and sells Blanks(sterile syringes).  and when you place an order dont 4get to request the S.O.T.M.(strain of the month) ITS A FREEBIE! 

you can use your syringe that u had to inoculate your jars.  just boil it 15 mins, suck up some boiling water and squirt it out in your sink a couple of times and fill back up w/more water = steril syringe.




really? so if just pouring boiling water sterilized everything, why are we pressure cooking our stuff to 250f for 90 minutes?  I am calling bullshit on that statement.  You can only be lucky for so long.  If a syringe is sterile, then used and not exposed to contams you win.  But if it gets a contam in it, good luck sterilizing with boiling water @ 180-200 degrees f for seconds.

If re-using syringes, suck up some distilled or spring water and wrap in foil and PC them same as PF tek jars.


--------------------
To thine own self be true.
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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: Vermonster420]
    #9737694 - 02/04/09 10:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

so if just pouring boiling water sterilized everything, why are we pressure cooking our stuff to 250f for 90 minutes?  I am calling bullshit on that statement.




lear to read.lol  never said any thing about pouring.  :wtf:

I said boil for 15 mins. and its a tek on here, read up.


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Offlinekami
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: Vermonster420]
    #9737704 - 02/04/09 10:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

is there tin foil covering your jars???
is your micropore tape still on???

I found these to be factors in my own experience with slow mycleium growth. I could be wrong though


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9737764 - 02/04/09 10:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
never had a syringe to begin with, started with prints.

this vendor, do they also have restrictions on where they ship their syringes just like with their spores? i mean, if they are blank syringes, then there should be no restrictions to some states am i right?




blanks are legal. nothing but plastic, metal and sterile water.


--------------------
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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9737897 - 02/04/09 10:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

how reliable are disposable 3mL syringes? since theyre disposable, would i be able to keep reusing them? i mean, i just want to be able to make my own syringes but worried if i can only use them once, then have to throw them out


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OfflineVermonster420
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9737948 - 02/04/09 10:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
Quote:

so if just pouring boiling water sterilized everything, why are we pressure cooking our stuff to 250f for 90 minutes?  I am calling bullshit on that statement.




lear to read.lol  never said any thing about pouring.  :wtf:

I said boil for 15 mins. and its a tek on here, read up.




ok, I must have speed read over the 15 minute boiling part, my bad!  But still, would you let a guy tatoo you with a used needle that had only been boiled?  not me. remember, the oven tek is on here too, doesn't make it right.  The best bet is to get a box of syringes for $20 and toss them when used.


--------------------
To thine own self be true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9738065 - 02/04/09 11:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
how reliable are disposable 3mL syringes? since theyre disposable, would i be able to keep reusing them? i mean, i just want to be able to make my own syringes but worried if i can only use them once, then have to throw them out




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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9738216 - 02/04/09 11:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
so it has been over a couple weeks and one of my BRF jars have stopped colonizing. the temp for incubation has been anywhere between 83-87 farenheit and has completely stopped colonizing. so in my very impatient move, i just removed the 1/3 of colonized substrated, crumbled it up, and decided to case it, hoping that it may start colonizing the peat/verm casing.

anyone think that the myc might start colonizing again?





Why would you think that it was a good idea to take a cake that was possibly showing signs of a contamination and crumbling it and trying to case it? So it stopped growing and instead of trying to figure out what happened you decided to ask us when will it start growing again?

I hope you fail. Wait, hah, it has already happened


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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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OfflineRedDevil420
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: tahoe]
    #9738331 - 02/04/09 11:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

lol, hop on board :failboat:

i'm pretty sure most people have screwed up at least once though


--------------------
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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: tahoe]
    #9738621 - 02/05/09 01:02 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
so it has been over a couple weeks and one of my BRF jars have stopped colonizing. the temp for incubation has been anywhere between 83-87 farenheit and has completely stopped colonizing. so in my very impatient move, i just removed the 1/3 of colonized substrated, crumbled it up, and decided to case it, hoping that it may start colonizing the peat/verm casing.

anyone think that the myc might start colonizing again?





Why would you think that it was a good idea to take a cake that was possibly showing signs of a contamination and crumbling it and trying to case it? So it stopped growing and instead of trying to figure out what happened you decided to ask us when will it start growing again?

I hope you fail. Wait, hah, it has already happened




actually, i never mentioned signs of contam....what an asshole


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Invisibleibusturcherry
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9739758 - 02/05/09 09:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
how reliable are disposable 3mL syringes? since theyre disposable, would i be able to keep reusing them? i mean, i just want to be able to make my own syringes but worried if i can only use them once, then have to throw them out




--------------------

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OfflineBreakfast Crew
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Re: Casing a non-fully colonized substrate [Re: ibusturcherry]
    #9739770 - 02/05/09 09:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ibusturcherry said:
76-78? i was always under the impression to incubate for good myc growth closest to 86 farenheit




Outdated teks come up in the search engines a lot... Would be nice if they had a filter or a sorting list. :smile:

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