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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain
    #606350 -

For those that aren't aware, most rye grain is contaminated with Claviceps purpurea, an ascomycete that is responsible for the infamous St. Anthony's Fire poisonings, as well as being the source of a number of compounds of pharmaceutical (and recreational) value.

Here's a photo of it growing on rye grain:



And here is what I collected this morning from 2# of grain I was working with.



Strange to think that a grain commonly used to grow a psychedelic mushroom is already host to another. Wonder what the mushroom does the the ergot alkaloids it inevitably encounters as it colonizes the rye.

One of these days I just might put one of these sclerotia on a petri dish to see what happens . . .

Heres' a link with some general ergot info:

http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/BOT135/LECT12.HTM

- AE


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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: altarego]
    #607025 -

i also found claviceps purpurea in my organic rye-grain...they said that the grain is checked for contaminants, but i still found dozens in a 5 kg bag...i want to start an experiment with a clone of a cubensis...substrate 1 pure rye-grain substrate 2 grain with claviceps mixed in...i wonder if this influences the potency...

BiO.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: B.I.O.]
    #607159 -

I would be quite angry if I found it in food I was going to eat..


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: altarego]
    #607582 -

so do pharmasists harvesting ergot use rye?? Sorry if this is a stupid question - just interested


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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1231510 -

Anyone know where else you can find clavices species for sale?


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Join The Shroomery Folding @ Home Team!



I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience, like going to the grave without having sex. It means that you never figured out what it was all about. The mystery is in the body, and the way the body works itself into nature.
- Terence McKenna, Archaic Revival

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: ISH]
    #1236215 -

Some links you may find helpful:
???
but other wise I dont think you can ISH...


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The fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: ISH]
    #1237630 -

I'm not sure where you might be able to find some claviceps purpurea for sale but by the posts here I would say that you should be able to obtain some rather easily since it's obviously being found in the organic rye that people are buying!  I'm gonna have to check my 2# bag of rye and see if I find any. 
Needless to say, if it's turning up in bags of rye then it's been used in substrate inadvertantly.
Intresting post!  :smile:

Peace,
-TekNut- 

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: TekNut]
    #1237977 -

Oh yea, Thanks Penguin, I was just gonna write a post on here before I checked your link. That is the place I found it at last time. Here is the link to their site, the even sell AMANITA VIROSA. AKA "DESTROYING ANGEL." Get this the code number for thatt is "DEATH" 30g for $200. Crazy shiet. I dunno why anyone would want to buy that, unless they wanted to kill someone.

Here is a quote from Peter Stafford's Psichedelics Encyclopedia:
Quote:
People do not usually feel these toxins untill about 2 days after they have eaten, by which time pumping the stomach and other medical measure seldom prove effective. The toxins affect the liver and kidneys. Only lately has there been any success in counteracting the virulent pisons, by use of dyalisis machines(cleans toxins from blood, used for people with spent kidneys.) and blood trasfusions. Because Amanita Muscaria(red cap) and Amanita Pantherina(more potent lighter colored cap, whitish) are simmilar in appearance to their lethal relatives it is recommended that one never eat any Amanita that is all white.(unless you correctly identified as A. Pantherina.



I found this on JLF. Not bad prices. Anyone ever order from them?


Claviceps paspali "Ergot Fungus"
Infected seeds of Argentine Bahiagrass. 30g. CPS $30.00


Claviceps purpurea "Ergot Fungus "
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering. From Wheat. Lot # 1. 30g. CP $25.00
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering. From Wheat. Lot # 1. 455g. CP1 $250.00
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering. From Wheat. Lot # 1. 4550g. / 10 lbs.
CP10 $1500.00
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering, unsorted w/25% inert grain material.
From Wheat. Lot # 1. 30g. CPUN $18.00
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering, unsorted w/25% inert grain material.
From Wheat. Lot # 1. 455g. CPUN1 $187.20
Sclerotia with honeydew-covering, unsorted w/25% inert grain material.
From Wheat. Lot # 1. 4550g. / 10 lbs. CPUN10 $1216.80
Sclerotia. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 30g. CLP $30.00
Sclerotia. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 455g. CLP1 $300.00
Sclerotia. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 4550g. CLP10 $2000.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/10% inert grain material. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 30g.
CLPUN $20.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/10% inert grain material. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 455g.
CLPUN1 $208.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/10% inert grain material. From Wheat. Lot # 2. 4550g.
CLPUN10 $1352.00
Sclerotia. From Rye. 30g. CPRY $35.00
Sclerotia. From Rye. 455g. CPRY1 $350.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/65% inert grain material. From Rye. 30g.
CPRYUN $10.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/65% inert grain material. From Rye. 455g.
CPRYUN1 $104.00
Unsorted sclerotia w/65% inert grain material. From Rye. 4550g.
CPRYUN10 $676.00


Claviceps sp. "Ergot Fungus"
Sclerotia from the wild grass, Agropyron smithii. 30g. CPA $40.00
Sclerotia from the wild grass Agropyron smithii. 455g. CPA1 $400.00



Ok so about half a kilo of ergot clerotia can be bought for 400.00 bux, that's damn good.

Laterz,
ISH


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Join The Shroomery Folding @ Home Team!



I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience, like going to the grave without having sex. It means that you never figured out what it was all about. The mystery is in the body, and the way the body works itself into nature.
- Terence McKenna, Archaic Revival

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: altarego]
    #1238659 -

Any remaining ergot sclerotia on your rye will do nothing in regard to your mushrooms or psilocybin activity. Ergot and it's alkaloids are easily destroyed by heat. Pressure cooking them at 15psi for even 30 minutes would leave them 110% inactive. If you want the benefits of the ergot, it is unlikely you would be able to use the grain for mushroom growing. You would first have to clean the grain material containing ergot with a solvent like naptha to get rid of all the fats and excess grain junk, then you'd do say a chloroform extraction to extract the lysergic acid and derivitives from the ergot, and then discard the rest. You could do the same if you cleaned the ergot off the rye first, at which point your remaining rye would be usable, but still any remaining ergot would be destroyed upon pressure cooking. Also, you do realize how very dangerous it is to be working with ergot? I hope you didn't clean that ergot fungus off with your bare hands? Extreme precautions should be taking when handling this stuff. Ergot WILL cause gangrene, you will become very ill, physically and mentally, and pieces of your body will begin falling off, if you ingest or come in contact with too much ergot, which doesn't require a whole lot. Now, are you sure you want this stuff growing and mixed in with your psilocybe's??? Not for me thanks.

While I fully condone ergot work, harvesting, collecting, growing, fruiting, etc... You should REALLY do A LOT of research before attempting any work with it, before you end up killing yourself or someone else.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: InMyVersion]
    #1238690 -

But if you did want to grow it out... Ergot is best kept outdoors as much as possible. Use the ergot cultures you have collected and mix them well with some water, then take an eye dropper and place a drop of the water on some rye growing in your back yard (or wherever), you want to get it on as many grain tips as possible. This should start a good healthy cycle. If you want to take it indoors it is doable. Obviously you want to grow it out on rye grain. Do a standard soil casing, a very very light casing layer, like just barely there, in a good fruiting container, and put it in the fridge with a light. The fruits are very tall and very skinny. Keep a close eye on them for sporulation, grab their spores, in some water, get a good misting spray bottle and go mist a field of rye with it. Stuff is really tough to grow indoors but outdoors it spreads like plague.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: altarego]
    #1241420 -

i find this very interesting, and you ppl prolly already know this. A compound formed from Ergot alkaliods called lysergic acid was studied by Albert Hoffman. His 25th compound formed from lysergic Acid of which we all know was LSD-25.
I find it interesting that growing mushrooms from rye containing ergot alkaloids among other substrates yeilds psilocybin, a tryptomine substance related to the tryptomine LSD-25.

My apologys for miss spelling.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: jdecapo]
    #1241473 -

Quote:
i find this very interesting, and you ppl prolly already know this. A compound formed from Ergot alkaliods called lysergic acid


lysergic acid is not formed from ergot alkaloids, lysergic acid IS an ergot alkaloid.



was studied by Albert Hoffman. His 25th compound formed from lysergic Acid of which we all know was LSD-25.


It is my understanding he studied psilocybin before ergot/lysergamides/etc...

Quote:
I find it interesting that growing mushrooms from rye containing ergot alkaloids among other substrates yeilds psilocybin, a tryptomine substance related to the tryptomine LSD-25.


The two tryptAmines may be related chemically but they have no natural correlation to each other. Because the two funguses thrive from feeding on rye does not suggest they are naturally related. Lysergic acid and derivitives are also found in Hawaiian woodrose seeds, morning glory seeds, acremonium coenophialumand, and stipa robusta (sleepy grass), among many others. I encourage everyone to learn about the ergot fungus and it's derivitives, but if your goal is to somehow create a natural or synthetic link or merger between psilocybin/psilocin and lysergic acid (which btw Albert Hoffman himself couldn't do) I suggest you spend a few years learning organic chemistry and all that is involved with ergot.

But to suggest to innocent unknowing hobbyist mushroom growers on the shroomery, that it would be a good idea to mix ergot in with the mushrooms they're going to eat should get you charged with murder at least. So people, take this as your warning from a knowledgable person in the subject, DON'T MIX ERGOT WITH ANYTHING YOU'RE GOING TO EAT AT ANY STAGE OF IT'S LIFE CYCLE, IT WILL HURT AND KILL YOU. If you still insist on playing around with lysergic acid and attempting to alter your mushrooms contents or alkaloids with it, learn how to extract it from seeds and use that, it's the exact same lysergic acid and seeds don't have anything that will seriously hurt or kill you, might make you sick for a few hours but you'll be fine the next day. Don't fuck with the alkaloids from ergot unless you have some serious chemistry experience and have read everything you can find about ergot.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: altarego]
    #1241773 -

Dug this photo up for you all. From Plants of the Gods.  :smile:
Claviceps purpurea
 

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: InMyVersion]
    #1244079 -

  thank you for posting that InMyVersion

  Please listen to what has been said about this!!!    This is not your home chemistry kit and ergot is very very serious business.  I am only repeating this  because I would hate to have to hear of a member of our community getting killed by experimenting in ignorance.

  As a side note InMyVersion:  I am pretty sure Hoffmann did work with the lysergic family before psilocybin(e).  I might be wrong on that, but when I was talking to Ott I was a bit "out of it".  :smile:
 


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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: Alkaloids]
    #9716032 -

edit, i re-read the thread, found tthe answer sorry


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Edited by cdubbz111 (02/01/09 07:38 AM)

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: cdubbz111]
    #9717313 -

Way to bump an old thread.  Just over 6 years old...


As long as it's come up...  Is anyone seeing any ergot around yet?  Don't think it typically comes out this early in the US, but it never hurts to keep an eye out for it.


-FF

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: fastfred]
    #9719223 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9719107/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

They also sell it on ebay.

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Re: Ergot Sclerotia in Rye Grain [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #9719254 -

Thanks Alan, this thread is what prompted me to make the images, I had seen these sclerotia in the garden the other day!
inski.


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