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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Religion and extraterrestial beings
#9693023 - 01/28/09 04:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, I have to ask, and I expect a wide variety of answers. Please, there is one assumption to this thread, and if you disagree and cannot take the assumption for the sake of argument, then I ask you to leave or just read.
If we made first contact with an intelligent alien species, and upon further discussion, it was revealed that they had no concept of any god, and that they were for the sake of labeling, scientists or naturalists or whatever you want to call it... how would you react? How would your religion and it's leaders react? Would we declare war on the aliens? Would we attempt to convert as many of the "heathens" as possible? How would these aliens fit into your religion's ideology? To the Christians, are they part of god's "plan?" Would they be included as part of Revelations as somehow part of the apocolypse?
What if they looked nothing like us? What if they were not even carbon-based? In other words, what if they were not "made in god's image?"
These are just a sampling of the questions I have on this subject. If you have the general idea of the vein of thought, please feel free to elaborate.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693045 - 01/28/09 04:59 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The pope (was it the pope or some other famous religious figure?) said recently that he accepts ET beings and they are part of god or something like that...
Most religions tend to adapt to new concepts. The bible itself has been re-written many times to fit new ideas and have unacceptable old ideas removed.
Personally I'm not religious, I don't expect another man or old book written by man to be able to tell me the answers to the universe. I'm not even evolved enough to comprehend them!
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9693059 - 01/28/09 05:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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That would seem to suggest that they would have every intention of converting them. What if none converted? What if they spoke harshly of religion or held some other theology and attempted to convert us?
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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DimensionX
King of Birds
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693068 - 01/28/09 05:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think asking aliens if they believed in Jesus would be one of the funniest things you could do. If they said no you could start trying to convert them. "Let me tell you about the greatest story ever written."
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justinsanity
Sanityinjust
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: DimensionX]
#9693076 - 01/28/09 05:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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then the aliens would be pissed and start doing the mars attacks scenario.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693117 - 01/28/09 06:09 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not really. I think more likely they would convert their own views or simply ignore the alien ideas.
Religions already ignore the fact that every human culture ever known to of existed has made up answers to the big questions and every culture has made DIFFERENT answers. Almost all of these religions are supported by ancient texts (bibles), prophets and have god(s). Religions have to operate under ignorance. If they accepted the truth, if they actually looked from a 3rd person perspective on all the different human cultures and their religions then they would have to accept the only logical conclusion is that it is the nature of mankind to invent answers to the unanswerable which result in religions.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
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Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693122 - 01/28/09 06:10 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I cannot speak for anyone but myself but if intelligent ETs revealed themselves to us I would need to ingest some psilocybin before I could even begin to wrap my head around the implications of their arrival.
The culture shock would be huge and I think mass marketed religion as we see it today would isolate itself to those who are in deep fear and denial of what is happening. The regular Xtian, who stays faithful to his religion yet is by no means a fundamentalist, would work towards expanding his worldview to include and accept the new species (that is if government doesn't convince him otherwise).
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: AlteredAgain]
#9693138 - 01/28/09 06:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its not just religions that are the problem with ETs. As a species we are in a fundamental denial. Not many people are willing to accept that their could be beings more advanced than us. The implications of this are to great. It means we are completely at their mercy and we are not as powerful and advanced as we like to think.
It took me years to change my world view on ETs even after encountering the evidence first hand. I was to scared to accept it. I'm still scared today but not as scared anymore.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Posts: 66,015
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693163 - 01/28/09 06:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldn't want to speak for them or anything, but they would probably think religion is both hilarious and terribly tragic at the same time. As they would most likely, be scientists and explorers.. with a vast understanding of the Universe far beyond what we know. Certainly, it would be a shock to religion and common beliefs in general, at the very least. Making peace with and attempting to understand our visiting friends, would be in our best interests.
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igwna
The Cap'n
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9693179 - 01/28/09 06:50 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah if aliens came i'd be like oop, fuck this motherfuckers i'm goin to space pce
everything would be nuts. no one would wanna work anymore they'd wanna chill with the aliens.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: igwna]
#9693210 - 01/28/09 07:13 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
yeah if aliens came i'd be like oop, fuck this motherfuckers i'm goin to space pce
Yup, lol
Unless of course Shroomism is dead wrong and space selects more for psychotic, survivalist, diehard fascists.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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igwna
The Cap'n
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693299 - 01/28/09 07:54 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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that would suck though
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: igwna]
#9693450 - 01/28/09 08:53 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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What if their ship landed, and out walks Moshe, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, and Krishna?
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693457 - 01/28/09 08:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said: What if their ship landed, and out walks Moshe, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, and Krishna?
Turnabout is not fair play
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693459 - 01/28/09 08:56 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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What would Ferris do?
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings *DELETED* [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693481 - 01/28/09 09:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by FerrisReason for deletion: .
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igwna
The Cap'n
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693496 - 01/28/09 09:30 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said: What if their ship landed, and out walks Moshe, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, and Krishna?
is this a joke?
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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igwna
The Cap'n
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9693499 - 01/28/09 09:31 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: I'd ask a hot alien chick if I could help "improve interspecies relations," and then I'd see if I could bum any free alien drugs off her
yeah totally! i dig your steez ferris fo sho
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: igwna]
#9693546 - 01/28/09 09:53 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
theMERRYiguana said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said: What if their ship landed, and out walks Moshe, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, and Krishna?
is this a joke?
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jazzillion
Conscious
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693702 - 01/28/09 11:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think if ETs descended upon Earth they would have full knowledge of our religions and religious history. They wouldn't find it stupid and useless. In fact, I'd bet they would reassure it's place in human history as a way of progressing progress at all costs. If it wasn't for religion, there would have been no need for the pyramids, or all the wars that furthered technology, etc.
In my imagination, ETs would declare themselves part of a new generation of human history, an interstellar and robotic human. Religious organizations would cry foul and try to adapt, but they'd be lost in the progress and lack of necessity, and no one would look back.
-------------------- When it rains, it spores "Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell All works of poster are of absolute fiction to be used for no other purpose but amusement.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693721 - 01/28/09 11:13 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm a pan theist. Everything is "god" imo.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9693772 - 01/28/09 11:45 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: I'm a pan theist. Everything is "god" imo.
If everything is god, then what "god" looses its meaning. Saying everything is god is parallel to saying there is no god IMO.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693824 - 01/28/09 12:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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No it doesn't. I think that everything is part of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. I don't believe in a conscious omnipotent being that has an agenda for the way an organism should live its life.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9693849 - 01/28/09 12:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I pretty much agree. Human language however contains this inherent paradoxical quality that when you try to say that god is everything, you are still describing "it" as some-thing. Or, you are at the same time describing nothing because everything and nothing are really the same. Only something can be localized. Words cannot capture the non-local. The very essence of the word makes this impossible to transmit.
But I think I get his point.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: AlteredAgain]
#9694795 - 01/28/09 03:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jesus was an alien
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9694926 - 01/28/09 03:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: No it doesn't. I think that everything is part of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. I don't believe in a conscious omnipotent being that has an agenda for the way an organism should live its life.
If everything is hot, then hot has no meaning, and as such if everything is god, then god has no meaning. To say "everything is god", is literally a non statement, it doesn't mean anything relative to anything else.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9694980 - 01/28/09 03:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9695205 - 01/28/09 04:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's simple logic brah, though if you can provide a perspective that I am missing, I am all ears.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9695329 - 01/28/09 04:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its simple logic.... Its not all materialistic. I have felt "god" from high dose psychedelics before. "god" to me is the collected consciousness of all matter. Its hard to explain because i came to this realization under pure madness from LSD, so words do it no justice. But i still stand by my pantheism. Your everything is hot, you don't know what hot is, is arbitrary.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9695522 - 01/28/09 05:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Its simple logic.... Its not all materialistic. I have felt "god" from high dose psychedelics before. "god" to me is the collected consciousness of all matter. Its hard to explain because i came to this realization under pure madness from LSD, so words do it no justice. But i still stand by my pantheism. Your everything is hot, you don't know what hot is, is arbitrary.
Sounds more like you're saying that "god" is the medium by which all "things" are connected, rather than being everything.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9695701 - 01/28/09 05:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Jesus was an alien
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9695833 - 01/28/09 05:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Shroomism is an alien
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9695845 - 01/28/09 05:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lou Dobbs said: Jesus was an illegal alien
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9695900 - 01/28/09 06:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said: Sounds more like you're saying that "god" is the medium by which all "things" are connected, rather than being everything.
If you subscribed to something similar to string theory as a means of explaining gravity, that would essentially be the same thing. I disagree that his original statement is a tautology. I'm not going to try expressing it in symbolic logic or anything, but I'm not seeing why it would be right off the bat.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9696096 - 01/28/09 06:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Its simple logic.... Its not all materialistic. I have felt "god" from high dose psychedelics before. "god" to me is the collected consciousness of all matter. Its hard to explain because i came to this realization under pure madness from LSD, so words do it no justice. But i still stand by my pantheism. Your everything is hot, you don't know what hot is, is arbitrary.
Sounds more like you're saying that "god" is the medium by which all "things" are connected, rather than being everything.
That is everything. Everything contributes, everything is "god"
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9696106 - 01/28/09 06:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: everything is "god"
This statement is meaningless.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696170 - 01/28/09 06:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not when your a pantheist. Maybe to you it is, but your prolly not a pantheist.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9696234 - 01/28/09 07:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Not when your a pantheist. Maybe to you it is, but your prolly not a pantheist.
Pantheism is meaningless. If everything is God, then what the hell does "god" even mean?
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696240 - 01/28/09 07:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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What do you think god means?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9696262 - 01/28/09 07:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Generally speaking, a transcendent being upon whom all existence depends.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696279 - 01/28/09 07:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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You think there is a conscious omnipotent being which was the creator of time-space?
I believe in an abstract "god", one that doesn't have form or shape.
Thats why we differ, you don't understand what i mean when i say "god"
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696311 - 01/28/09 07:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its more like everything is part of god and not that god is seperate entity that created us.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696323 - 01/28/09 07:13 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Since we're arguing semantics, if pantheism is meaningless, then meaning is meaningless.
Pantheism is just as valid as any other perspective.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9696336 - 01/28/09 07:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: You think there is a conscious omnipotent being which was the creator of time-space?
I didn't saying about omnipotent. Nor do I believe in the concept of "creatio ex nihilo"(creation out of nothing). I'm a panentheist. I would agree with pantheists in saying that God is omnipresent, and is within everything in the universe, but that does not mean that God is everything.
Quote:
I believe in an abstract "god", one that doesn't have form or shape.
Thats why we differ, you don't understand what i mean when i say "god"
So what do you mean by the term? So far, here's what you've said God is:- Anything and everything
- Without form or shape
The second point contradicts the first, since "everything" includes things with form and shape.
So what exactly do you mean by the term?
--------------------
Edited by Silversoul (01/28/09 07:24 PM)
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9696385 - 01/28/09 07:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_(Ender%27s_Game)
This is a character from the Ender's Game series by Card that would fit much of the description of a being that lived in all matter.
The wiki doesn't go into as much depth of the description of the physical makeup of the being, but in short, her conscious is made up of the vibration of the strings that theoretically connect all matter.
At the chronological end of the series, it is revealed that
all living beings souls reside in these strings and are transferred here from another plane
Card is a Mormon, so it's one of those rare semi-serious melds of religion and science fiction.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9696404 - 01/28/09 07:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Silversoul, if you think that saying that everything is something is stupid and therefore wrong. Then how do you explain e=mc^2, which essentially says matter = energy and therefore everything is energy.
Fine, how about this, pantheism states that God = energy therefore everything is God. Is that good?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: learningtofly]
#9696429 - 01/28/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Silversoul, if you think that saying that everything is something is stupid and therefore wrong. Then how do you explain e=mc^2, which essentially says matter = energy and therefore everything is energy.
The theory of relativity shows that matter is convertible into energy, not that they are identical.
Quote:
Fine, how about this, pantheism states that God = energy therefore everything is God. Is that good?
If you say that energy is derived from God, or that God is composed of energy, then it might make sense. If you simply say that the two mean the same thing, then you've done nothing but add an unnecessary term to something that we already have a useful term for.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696437 - 01/28/09 07:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9696444 - 01/28/09 07:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If the universe exists in the mind of God, then God is in the universe and the universe is in God, but they remain distinct entities. This would be panentheism(my position), not pantheism.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696612 - 01/28/09 08:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Discuss Politics
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KrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696799 - 01/28/09 08:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Ferris said: How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If the universe exists in the mind of God, then God is in the universe and the universe is in God, but they remain distinct entities. This would be panentheism(my position), not pantheism.
if the universe is a thought of god (creation), who created god? and whose universe is he in?
-------------------- Everybody's a ninja...
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
#9696825 - 01/28/09 08:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did
Thread end/
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skunkape
earth bound
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9696936 - 01/28/09 09:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come on guys get back to the extra terrestrials already. A few years ago in an art history class I learned that there are several paintings depicting religious figures in the foreground with UFO's in the background skies. Interesting that they acknowledged them back then, if they are in fact supposed to be unknown flying objects.
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skunkape
earth bound
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: skunkape]
#9696969 - 01/28/09 09:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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found a few pix...
"The Baptism of Christ" Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England - Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder.
"The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". Painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio.
"The Crucifixion" Painted in 1350. This paintng hangs above the altar at the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Yugoslavia.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9697066 - 01/28/09 09:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Jesus was an alien
Agreed. I don't think we are much different either.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
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Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: skunkape]
#9697574 - 01/28/09 10:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are just pictures of the devils doom ships.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697605 - 01/28/09 10:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know what the first one is supposed to be, a rain cloud obscuring the sun perhaps, but the latter appears to be angels riding meteors. I'm sure there's some sort of biblical or mythical backing for that kind of imagery.. if one bothered to take the time to look it up.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697736 - 01/28/09 11:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The pictures are open to interpretation. The artists didn't explain them.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9697758 - 01/28/09 11:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ya well, that doesn't stop me from calling an interpretation dumb, especially if at the time, I don't think the people even had a concept of alien or outer space.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697848 - 01/28/09 11:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
especially if at the time, I don't think the people even had a concept of alien or outer space.
Thats the error in thought right there.
People certainly had a concept of space and I'm sure some people had a concept of aliens BUT that isn't the point. The painting has not said anything about space or aliens. Its simply a picture which depicts an image which appears to be an unidentified aerial phenomena. The nature of that phenomena is open to interpretation.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697878 - 01/28/09 11:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ya, but transferring modern ideas onto historical imagery is the most common misinterpretation made when analyzing art.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697943 - 01/28/09 11:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The point is, aliens coming down in spaceships might NOT be only a modern idea.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9697985 - 01/29/09 12:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well its certainly not.:) Lots of separate ancient cultures have depicted beings coming from the sky and landing in craft - both in drawings and texts. One particular tribe had drawn beings exactly the same as the "greys" that are common in our culture now but these drawings were ancient within this tribe and the tribe had had no outside influence of media/radio to give them that interpretation.
A similar thing happened quite recently in Ruwanda, africa. A group of school children all witnessed a circular metallic looking craft land. They saw grey beings with large eyes emerge and they even claimed the beings seemed to be talking to the telepathically. These children had no reason to lie about something like this and were not subject to media influences such as TV/film that we are yet they have an uncanny resemblance to to the hundreds if not thousands of similar reports from alien abductee / close contacts all over the world.
IMO it takes a bigger leap of faith to claim it was a mass delusion that just happened to have the almost exact details as other worldwide reports than to say maybe they did witness what they all claimed to witness.
Edited by Ego Death (01/29/09 12:18 AM)
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igwna
The Cap'n
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9697990 - 01/29/09 12:13 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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whoaa every time i woke up during the night there were alien documentries on the history channel
and still are!
am i going i feel like i've already seen this one
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
Edited by igwna (01/29/09 12:13 AM)
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BigLaughingJim
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9698066 - 01/29/09 12:30 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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What if the idea you call "modern" is as old as recorded history?--(Rhetorical, no need to reply.)
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BigLaughingJim
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9698222 - 01/29/09 01:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Believe it or not, they have visited us many times over thousands of years. They left us with this comment about religion: "While human beings indulge in religion, true spirit dwindles."
What gives them (the 'visitors') the 'expertise' to critique our religions?--Only this, they've observed us up close for thousands of years; early humans mistook them for 'gods' and based their religions on this mistaken belief. (See the 'Elohim' of the Old Testament.)
To me, their comment is more a condemnation of religious dogma than it is an all-out attack on religion. In other words, let the true measure of a religion's worth be this: does it serve more to bring us together or to tear us apart?
And, any religion that suggests that it alone is the only true path, and that only its devotees will reach heaven--thus, all others are doomed to hell--is not doing much to bring us together (ie., not worth the papyrus it is printed on, IMO).
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igwna
The Cap'n
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: BigLaughingJim]
#9698228 - 01/29/09 01:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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the fuck are you talking about?
oh yeah and your soul belongs to me now
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
Edited by igwna (01/29/09 01:18 AM)
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BigLaughingJim
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9698369 - 01/29/09 02:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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"God is everything," is a tough nut for most people to wrap their brains around. The fact it is difficult for us to grasp makes it no less true. The problem with calling this idea "pantheism" is that it can lead to the false assumption that believers in this concept, therefore, believe only in multiple gods. (Unity Consciousness is a much better concept than pantheism.)
"Many gods" is false because there is but one God, a God who can and does manifest on our physical plane in a multitude of forms (and in the Spirit plane in a multitude of deities). The Duality is the "maya"--the illusion that we (every living being and every non-living entity) ever have been, are, or will be apart or separate from God.--Consciousness is one. Being is One!
Why is it such a great leap to conceive it?--Especially when many "monotheists" will readily admit that God is 'omniscient' and 'omnipresent.' "God knows of each bird that falls" "One in the Spirit." God know of each bird because God IS each bird. Maybe accepting the idea that we all are divine (ie., GOD) would put too much guilt upon those who are not brave enough to accept the repsonsibility of their own actions. That is, to accept that we are divine might mean we now must behave accordingly.
To accept the Duality as real is like the dreamer who accepts the dream as real, ie., he believes only in the dream world as he doesn't know he is sleeping. Unity Conscioiusness is like when the dreamer realizes, suddenly, while still dreaming that he is actually asleep and experiencing a dream. He then knows that when the 'dream' is over (in death or upon enlightenment) he will awake to his true state of Being, Self Realization.
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BigLaughingJim
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: BigLaughingJim]
#9698378 - 01/29/09 02:31 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to think of them (our bodies) more like a set of clothes rather than prisons. When they wear out (death) we just get a new set (reincarnate). Peace, brother.
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Visionary Tools
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9698744 - 01/29/09 06:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ego Death said: The pope (was it the pope or some other famous religious figure?) said recently that he accepts ET beings and they are part of god or something like that...
Most religions tend to adapt to new concepts. The bible itself has been re-written many times to fit new ideas and have unacceptable old ideas removed.
Personally I'm not religious, I don't expect another man or old book written by man to be able to tell me the answers to the universe. I'm not even evolved enough to comprehend them!
It was the vatican's chief astronomer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7399661.stm
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