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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696279 - 01/28/09 07:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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You think there is a conscious omnipotent being which was the creator of time-space?
I believe in an abstract "god", one that doesn't have form or shape.
Thats why we differ, you don't understand what i mean when i say "god"
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696311 - 01/28/09 07:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its more like everything is part of god and not that god is seperate entity that created us.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696323 - 01/28/09 07:13 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Since we're arguing semantics, if pantheism is meaningless, then meaning is meaningless.
Pantheism is just as valid as any other perspective.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9696336 - 01/28/09 07:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: You think there is a conscious omnipotent being which was the creator of time-space?
I didn't saying about omnipotent. Nor do I believe in the concept of "creatio ex nihilo"(creation out of nothing). I'm a panentheist. I would agree with pantheists in saying that God is omnipresent, and is within everything in the universe, but that does not mean that God is everything.
Quote:
I believe in an abstract "god", one that doesn't have form or shape.
Thats why we differ, you don't understand what i mean when i say "god"
So what do you mean by the term? So far, here's what you've said God is:- Anything and everything
- Without form or shape
The second point contradicts the first, since "everything" includes things with form and shape.
So what exactly do you mean by the term?
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Edited by Silversoul (01/28/09 07:24 PM)
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9696385 - 01/28/09 07:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_(Ender%27s_Game)
This is a character from the Ender's Game series by Card that would fit much of the description of a being that lived in all matter.
The wiki doesn't go into as much depth of the description of the physical makeup of the being, but in short, her conscious is made up of the vibration of the strings that theoretically connect all matter.
At the chronological end of the series, it is revealed that
all living beings souls reside in these strings and are transferred here from another plane
Card is a Mormon, so it's one of those rare semi-serious melds of religion and science fiction.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9696404 - 01/28/09 07:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Silversoul, if you think that saying that everything is something is stupid and therefore wrong. Then how do you explain e=mc^2, which essentially says matter = energy and therefore everything is energy.
Fine, how about this, pantheism states that God = energy therefore everything is God. Is that good?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: learningtofly]
#9696429 - 01/28/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Silversoul, if you think that saying that everything is something is stupid and therefore wrong. Then how do you explain e=mc^2, which essentially says matter = energy and therefore everything is energy.
The theory of relativity shows that matter is convertible into energy, not that they are identical.
Quote:
Fine, how about this, pantheism states that God = energy therefore everything is God. Is that good?
If you say that energy is derived from God, or that God is composed of energy, then it might make sense. If you simply say that the two mean the same thing, then you've done nothing but add an unnecessary term to something that we already have a useful term for.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696437 - 01/28/09 07:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9696444 - 01/28/09 07:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If the universe exists in the mind of God, then God is in the universe and the universe is in God, but they remain distinct entities. This would be panentheism(my position), not pantheism.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696612 - 01/28/09 08:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Discuss Politics
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KrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Silversoul]
#9696799 - 01/28/09 08:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Ferris said: How about this, the universe is a thought that god had, and is a simulated event, a what if.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If the universe exists in the mind of God, then God is in the universe and the universe is in God, but they remain distinct entities. This would be panentheism(my position), not pantheism.
if the universe is a thought of god (creation), who created god? and whose universe is he in?
-------------------- Everybody's a ninja...
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
#9696825 - 01/28/09 08:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did
Thread end/
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skunkape
earth bound
Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,581
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: blewmeanie]
#9696936 - 01/28/09 09:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come on guys get back to the extra terrestrials already. A few years ago in an art history class I learned that there are several paintings depicting religious figures in the foreground with UFO's in the background skies. Interesting that they acknowledged them back then, if they are in fact supposed to be unknown flying objects.
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skunkape
earth bound
Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,581
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: skunkape]
#9696969 - 01/28/09 09:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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found a few pix...
"The Baptism of Christ" Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England - Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder.
"The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". Painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio.
"The Crucifixion" Painted in 1350. This paintng hangs above the altar at the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Yugoslavia.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: Shroomism]
#9697066 - 01/28/09 09:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Jesus was an alien
Agreed. I don't think we are much different either.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestrial beings [Re: skunkape]
#9697574 - 01/28/09 10:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are just pictures of the devils doom ships.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697605 - 01/28/09 10:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know what the first one is supposed to be, a rain cloud obscuring the sun perhaps, but the latter appears to be angels riding meteors. I'm sure there's some sort of biblical or mythical backing for that kind of imagery.. if one bothered to take the time to look it up.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697736 - 01/28/09 11:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The pictures are open to interpretation. The artists didn't explain them.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ego Death]
#9697758 - 01/28/09 11:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ya well, that doesn't stop me from calling an interpretation dumb, especially if at the time, I don't think the people even had a concept of alien or outer space.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religion and extraterrestial beings [Re: Ferris]
#9697848 - 01/28/09 11:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
especially if at the time, I don't think the people even had a concept of alien or outer space.
Thats the error in thought right there.
People certainly had a concept of space and I'm sure some people had a concept of aliens BUT that isn't the point. The painting has not said anything about space or aliens. Its simply a picture which depicts an image which appears to be an unidentified aerial phenomena. The nature of that phenomena is open to interpretation.
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