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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Newbie]
#9692223 - 01/27/09 11:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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For me, it would be about future career more than pay/signing bonus. Its probably plan D right now (if plan A, B and C dont work out )
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: DieCommie]
#9692241 - 01/27/09 11:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think that is relevant, for sure: I'm hoping soldiers are clueless but goodhearted; you think they're informed and, subsequently, lacking moral structure.
Money prevails. What a surprise. And "ideals," too: flag-waving, Christ-toting, mind numbing ideals.
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jewunit
Brutal!
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: DieCommie]
#9692245 - 01/27/09 11:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Future career? Unless you're an MP and wanna be a cop when you get out it's my understanding that the military does little to actually help out your career beyond being a resume builder, or if you use the money to go to college.
-------------------- !
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uber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Kada]
#9692268 - 01/27/09 11:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kada said: I joined the millitary for my own reasons, and one of them was not so i could get a thank you from anyone. I went in for myself, not the american public. I always hated the phrase "support the troops", because the troops all went in for their own reasons, and every pair of boots knew when they joined that they do whatever the governemnt tells them. You can't say that you don't support the war, the choices of the governemnt, but you support the troops. Thats just plain wrong, because none of them were drafted like back in the day. They all chose to join, and not one person was forced into it. So if you don't support the war, then don't support the troops.
i'm giving you five shrooms for that. every military person i know went in for their own personal benefits, none of them joined to 'protect' us. yet every time i see somebody thank them for it, they always go into "yeah, i'm a war hero" mode. thank you, not for serving, but for being real about it
if you don't mind me asking, aside from the paychecks, do you feel as though joining the military was ultimately a positive experience for you?
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psilyguy
Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 3,305
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: jewunit]
#9692300 - 01/27/09 11:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Future career? Unless you're an MP and wanna be a cop when you get out it's my understanding that the military does little to actually help out your career beyond being a resume builder, or if you use the money to go to college.
psilyguy said: i know there are at least a handful of soldiers who are looking for training to help with their future career in contract killing...
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Kada]
#9692322 - 01/27/09 11:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kada said: I don't support the troops right now, and i was one. "Support your troops" is a saying that applies to a draft or a war you agree with. I can respect that they have a dangerous job, but i will not say i support them, because they are just as responsible for where we are at today just like the government is.
How in the fuck are the troops responsible for the governments actions
Quote:
I feel sorry for the people who joined right before we invaded iraq because they had no choice at the moment. But they did chose to join, and knew what their jobs entailed from the begining. And thats to do what they are told. Im still trying to figure out why i have to support the troops. Tell someone that you don't and they freak out lol.
The majority of the troops, joined the military before the war started.
And most of them did it to get money for college....not to fight in an unjust war.
Supporting the troops is the only morally just thing to do.
I have no love for our government for getting the troops into an unjust war But I have no animosity toward the troops that got stuck fighting this war. And will fully support them if given the chance.
If I lived near an airport that had a USO I would volunteer there weekly if not daily
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692340 - 01/27/09 11:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
And most of them did it to get money for college....
... knowing that they would be near powerless to decide their own actions after signing the dotted line.
I would never support someone so careless and naive. To toss your free will aside for financial gain is worthless behavior, IMO.
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uber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692358 - 01/28/09 12:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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i support some troops. 3, actually. 1 of them I know deserves to step on an IED. a lot of them that i've met, but not known on a personal level, were just rednecks who wanted to go kill a 'sand-nigger' and return back to the trailer park as a so-called hero.
obviously i would prefer that our troops dont kill anybody, and nobody kills our troops (except for that 1), but that isnt reality right now.
moral arguments for supporting the troops aren't exactly strong. why would i care more about people running around shooting others in the desert than people running around making my lunch? IME, they've done nothing to protect me, but i've protected several of their friends/family members in their absence.
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mozartvicious
Perma Trails
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1,508
Loc: Dead luck hubris
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: uber_aj]
#9692468 - 01/28/09 12:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I hate that religion is always being closely associated with conservatism. I'm conservative and I'm an atheist.... all the Jesus freak wackos I ever run into are those politically correct, protest everything, fuzzy-thinking, 'Libby-jibby' liberals.
Sorry, I know I just offended half of you fuckers in here
-------------------- Friend- "Dude, A lot of people thought you were a snob in High School" ME- "What? I didn't even talk to those people"
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flexintexan
Future DO
Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Fresno
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Cameron]
#9692595 - 01/28/09 12:58 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cameron said:
Quote:
And most of them did it to get money for college....
... knowing that they would be near powerless to decide their own actions after signing the dotted line.
I would never support someone so careless and naive. To toss your free will aside for financial gain is worthless behavior, IMO.
I really was not smart enough to understand the social control methods they are so good at when I enlisted.
I joined because my parents treated me like a little kid. I just wanted to get away. Then I joined and realized I really hated the army. And my parents still treated me like a little kid after deployment.
At least I learned a lot and have plenty of reasons to dislike the military now. I also gained a bunch of skills that are absolutely useless in the civilian world. And to top it off, I kept getting sent to lame places during college and somehow became a 6-7 year full time 15 unit/semester student that never failed anything. And my GI Bill almost never arrived within the first few months of each semester.
You can't beat that with a stick.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: uber_aj]
#9692620 - 01/28/09 01:02 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
uber_aj said:
Quote:
Kada said: I joined the millitary for my own reasons, and one of them was not so i could get a thank you from anyone. I went in for myself, not the american public. I always hated the phrase "support the troops", because the troops all went in for their own reasons, and every pair of boots knew when they joined that they do whatever the governemnt tells them. You can't say that you don't support the war, the choices of the governemnt, but you support the troops. Thats just plain wrong, because none of them were drafted like back in the day. They all chose to join, and not one person was forced into it. So if you don't support the war, then don't support the troops.
i'm giving you five shrooms for that. every military person i know went in for their own personal benefits, none of them joined to 'protect' us. yet every time i see somebody thank them for it, they always go into "yeah, i'm a war hero" mode. thank you, not for serving, but for being real about it
if you don't mind me asking, aside from the paychecks, do you feel as though joining the military was ultimately a positive experience for you?
It was a positive experience as far as streightening my life out goes. I was a fuck up, and i didn't know how to behave like a man. If i took anything from the Marines it was that. They taught me how to act responibly through structure.
I can't really get into the negative stuff without going on a giant rant. All i knows is, being in the millitary makes you everyone that is above you your master. You might as well be a slave. It's not hard work most of the time, but you are there to do what you are told. You have no opinion. That was the hardest for me.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692635 - 01/28/09 01:06 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
How in the fuck are the troops responsible for the governments actions
When you are in the millitary, your whole job is to follow orders. When you join you know this. Just because you followed out a order, does not mean you are not morally responsable for your actions tho. I didn't mean they are responsible for the governments actions exactly, but they are responsible for what the governemnt can accomplish, because of their direct involvment. the orders they follow through with, might as well be their own choices because they chose to join and take the orders in the first place.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Kada]
#9692658 - 01/28/09 01:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is it the slaves fault the pyramids were built????
Or is it the masters fault the pyramids were built???
No one Very few people joined the military to go to war They did it for a job/money.
Blaming the troops for the current war is fucking retarded.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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psilyguy
Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 3,305
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692667 - 01/28/09 01:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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one of us is completely misinterpretting what Kada is saying... hope it isn't me
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692682 - 01/28/09 01:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you are agreeing with me but you don't see it.
You can't participate in something for one reason (money/job), and not be responsible for the things you do. It's like you telling me that a hired hitman has no moral guilt, because it's not your problem people want other people killed. So i guess it's ok, because you needed a job.
Would you voluntarily take a job that would force you to do bad deeds in the name of it's own self interest? The military is not defending the country, they are invading another out of the interests of the powerful. People that join it just to have a job, or for money, or to just go to war are the hand that does these things.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: niteowl]
#9692685 - 01/28/09 01:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Is it the slaves fault the pyramids were built????
That's a false analogy. Soldiers may be 'slaves' in the sense that they're required to follow orders, but they are in the army by choice.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Cameron]
#9692705 - 01/28/09 01:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would support the slaves in that case. As in i would try to free them, or die trying. The word SLAVE could be used for soldiers that were drafted, and for whatever things the governemnt were using them for, i feel that the "slaves" had no moral guilt in most cases. How could you not support them in that instance? They are humans bound by law to serve in place of you. You didn't get drafted, so how could you not support them?
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Kada]
#9692720 - 01/28/09 01:30 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wait, what does the draft have to do with the Iraqi war?
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Cameron]
#9692735 - 01/28/09 01:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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In my original post i was saying that the only people i would support in a war like we have now, is someone who was forced to join by draft. I know we don't have a draft now, so that just streightens my reason when i say that no, i don't support the troops.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: My mom sent me an email... [Re: Cameron]
#9692741 - 01/28/09 01:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nothing
He is saying that he doesn't support the troops because they joined the military.
Even though he himself was in the military. {wonder what he would think of himself had the war started while he was in the military}
Biggest fucking hypocrite I have seen in a long time.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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