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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Casing Curiosity...need advice...
    #967401 - 10/16/02 11:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

So, I currently have two casing trays of Ecuador spores I got from one of the more popular vendors. I didn't use the syringe for about 3 months after actually receiving it. It was stored in the fridge in a baggie in a box until I innoculated 10 jars of BRF/verm substrate. (the syringe was left out overnight prior to the innoculation to bring the spore solution back to room temp)

These spores took FOREVER to start germinating (just under 3 weeks) and they continued to colonize very slowly. 3 of the 10 jars never even had any growth of mycelia. So...I emailed the vendor, they apologized and said it sounded like the spores weren't very viable/healthy and replaced the syringe for free. I was advised to allow the other jars to grow out and still fruit. So I did.

The first casing was 3 jars into a bread loaf pan cased with vermiculite. The second casing was 4 jars into a brownie pan cased with vermiculite. The 1st casing once it started to pin in the terarrium got HUNDREDS of tiny pins all starting to grow. Most incredible pinset I ever saw that wasn't a picture online!! But then...the pins, and I mean all of them, just stopped growing?? They're all so tiny still and they're not growing at all any more.

Is something wrong with these casings/spores? Should I just toss both trays? Neither is contaminated and both smell "shroomy"...just wandering if anyone's ever had a pinset "stall" and quit growing on you? I can't post a pic, but just imagine a breadloaf pan that looks like a pincushion jam-packed with tiny little colored pins....hundreds of them....but none of them getting any bigger.

Any advice or experience shared would be greatly appreciated!!

Love & Light,

Bop


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OfflineXiC_clone
Calls Shots 'Round Here
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 503
Loc: Earth 25XX
Last seen: 6 months, 11 hours
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Boppity604]
    #967428 - 10/16/02 11:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I have had plenty of pin-stalls, normally a few get bigger.
Normally this is what I have come to observe.
if I have 60 pins
20 will mature
30 will 1/2 ass mature
and 10 will abort, it just stop growing

Sometimes a set will just pin and stop growing.
Dont get dessucraged(sp?), just wait till u know they wont grow anymore, pluck em all as gentelly as u can (tiny mushies bruise easy), and patch up the showing mycelin.
Finally, hope for another good pinset and pray for mature mushies.

Dont throw it out till it is spent or contamed. Can always get a new flush =)


-XiC


--------------------
Don't soak your WBS dummy! There's an =>easy<= way.
For Your Health!


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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Boppity604]
    #967795 - 10/17/02 02:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I suspect you need to raise the temperature and/or increase humidity.
temps should be around 80f, humidty around 98%.


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OfflineLilMerlin
Life magicapprentice
Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 151
Loc: Europe.
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Boppity604]
    #968112 - 10/17/02 05:09 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Well, next time, use rye... it takes a max of 20 days to colonize a quart jar and there are more nutrients for shrooms to grow.

I once had the same phenomenon as you: millions of pins but only a few came to maturity. I'm still trying to elucidate that mystery (maybe it was me spraying). I was told that pins aborted at the stage they didn't have enough nutrients/water to grow more. The more pins, the more aborts when there is not enough nutrients... And they also abort when you spray them. Nothing is certain, but modify some parameters and try again. It should work.

If nothing grows from them now, recase them with another casing material (choir/peat-verm). Straight verm didn't work as well as the others for me.

Here's a pic of my aborted casing... what was strange was the growing shrooms (5 in all) which opened their caps at that early stage. I guess that was humidity, but I'm not certain of that:


LilMerlin.


--------------------
"Five grams in silent darkness." T. McKenna
Why take more? Take different!


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: solidstate]
    #968385 - 10/17/02 10:01 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"I suspect you need to raise the temperature and/or increase humidity.
temps should be around 80f, humidty around 98%."

i have read and heard that much lower humidity is required for casings. for instance, hawk states 82 to 92 percent and there is another thread here where using the same high-humidity cake environment for casings is discouraged. also too-high humidity for casings is covered in a shroomery faq.

http://www.thehawkseye.com/50-50casing.html
http://www.shroomery.org/findorgrowthem.php?View=docs&doc=43


--------------------
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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Bilge]
    #968767 - 10/17/02 01:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

anyone else have suggestions?

I've been fanning 3-5 times a day...just like I was with my first go at casings a few months ago.  That seemed fine then...perhaps with larger terrariums I have to fan even more each day.  :frown:

Either way...it's a live-and-learn process...I can deal with a few wasted casings in order to get the process down.  :smile:

I'm just wondering if it's the actual spores that are causing the problem if they're old.  I have two casings of Koh Samui's that just went into their own terrarium last night (same size as the one the EQ's are in).  So...hopefully these will pin/fruit better.  I guess I should get some humidity guages for in the terrariums...that'll have to wait til my next check...

Thanks for the input so far!

Love & Light,

Bop 


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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Bilge]
    #968859 - 10/17/02 01:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

thats true once mushrooms begin maturing, but for the best pinset & early development the casing should be at or near 100% h2o capacity, meaning humidity must be in the 95-100%range.
as the mushrooms mature the humidity should be gradualy lowered to the 82-92% range.
for cubensis Stamets TMC recomends 90+ humidity post casing/ prepinning,95-100% humidity for primordia formation, then 85-92% for cropping.


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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Boppity604]
    #968871 - 10/17/02 01:49 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

a three month old syringe may take longer to germinate due to decreased spore viability.
spores that do germinate should be fine.


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Offlineseattlekid
Stranger

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: solidstate]
    #969031 - 10/17/02 02:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

my friend had the same thing happen to him with some PR. Just a shit load of pins but then they all stopped. His pretty sure it had something to due with the air exchange/humidity cause after he change the setup to a cool mist he didn't have the same problem again. Did your tray look something like this:


--------------------
Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it.


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Offlinecomario2
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Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: seattlekid]
    #969110 - 10/17/02 02:51 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you could'nt save those?


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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InvisibleBoppity604
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1,056
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: seattlekid]
    #969250 - 10/17/02 03:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Seattlekid:

You could have taken that same picture in my grow room.  That pic has more pins that grew larger though...mine are staying REALLY small...

hrm...back to the Casing FAQ for advice on terrariums.  My growrooom is staying between 76-78 degrees on a regular basis.  I was misting twice a day (morning and night) until I started to get primordia and pins...then I only mist once every other day.  The only strain I was told not to mist once mycellium appear through the casing layer is for Pan. Cyans....but for cubensis even the casing FAQ states that misting pins will not cause them to abort...so I'm not sure what's going on.

Either way...I'm learning...and that's the important thing.  :smile:

Love & Light,

Bop 


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 2,104
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Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: solidstate]
    #969302 - 10/17/02 03:39 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

ss, what are you talking about man?

go read fruiting parameters, or grow a cube.. please.. before giving advice.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Raadt]
    #970923 - 10/18/02 12:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you may think I am full of shit but its true that raising humidity to 95-100% during pin initiation is very helpful.
humidity is then lowered to 82-92% for mushroom development.
a cubensis casing will pin at constant 82-92%, just not to its fullest potential.


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Offlinehyper_dermic
stranger withcandy

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 736
Loc: the land of excess
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Casing Curiosity...need advice... [Re: Boppity604]
    #974242 - 10/19/02 08:04 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

if u dont mind me asking, who was the vendor that sent you the syringe?
i had the exact same problem with a batch of EQs from a shroomery vendor...
out of the 3 syringes i think i got a total of 3 or 4 jars to germinate... and they are STILL trying to colonize (this is like 40-50+ days now)
the other jars are totally sterile, they have been sitting for weeks and no growth, so i know its not my sterlization (i used a PC)

i ordered some Maz syringes from the vendor as well, and those are doing just fine.. 100% germinated, and i got 0% contamination so i know my innoculation procedures are totally sterile.....

i sent the vendor 1 email and got a response... i decided to try out the other 2 EQ syringes before i emailed him back.. i just did so a few days ago asking for a refund... so far, no reply... im keeping my mouth shut for now, but if i dont get a reply in a few days i will release this info to the public....

[hyp]


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